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Mar-a-Largo raided by FBI?

Jimmy Higgins said:
If it is Mar-o-Lago, and we are talking top secret docs being hidden, it has to be very high up the chain, like Jr or Kuschner or Giuliani.
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So if the photo published by the New York Times is any indication, then "hidden" means "stuffed into a box along with framed copies of Time Magazine covers."

View attachment 30dc-investigate-3-articleLarge.webp

Holy fucking shit.

I was casting about for some sort of context, and the closest thing I can come to (not having ever handled classified anything) is the process I had to go through to get some of my work after I was laid off from my old job. I wanted some of the creative I'd produced for clients, but in order to get a copy, I had to sit in the HR Director's office while she watched me scroll through my old folder on the hard drive, then mark what I wanted, and have her send them to the legal department to approve them for release so I could put it on my demo reel.

That's what I had to go through for a commercial for an RV dealership. Now look at that photo again, and try to tell me just how fucked we are...
 
link
article said:
Investigators developed evidence that “government records were likely concealed and removed” from the storage room at Mar-a-Lago after the Justice Department sent Mr. Trump’s office a subpoena for any remaining documents with classified markings. That led prosecutors to conclude that “efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation,” the government filing said.
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This is a bit damning as it implies conspiracy to conceal the documents and obstruct justice. And the affidavit would likely include the source(s) that the claim is based upon. I ponder whether it could have been a lawyer of Trump that disclosed this. Committing a crime with a lawyer isn't privileged.

We still don't know whether this was merely trophy collections by him (though Top Secret / SCI is a pretty big deal) or whether there was something in these documents that had value to someone else. What we do know is that none of those documents have any stamping indicating they were declassified on the cover of them, meaning, they weren't declassified.
 
I'm trying to think of how Orange Psycho and his team of diaper changers did not commit a crime. More specifically I'm trying to come up with a legal defense of their behavior that would have at least a scintilla of legitimacy. It's one thing to have such material in error and then return it upon discovery but that's not what has happened here.

My military days bring to mind a term called "wrongful appropriation." It means you were in possession of something without the intent to actually keep it. It was not theft in the common sense. Maybe Orange and his fellow psychos are headed in this direction.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
I'm trying to think of how Orange Psycho and his team of diaper changers did not commit a crime. More specifically I'm trying to come up with a legal defense of their behavior that would have at least a scintilla of legitimacy. It's one thing to have such material in error and then return it upon discovery but that's not what has happened here.

My military days bring to mind a term called "wrongful appropriation." It means you were in possession of something without the intent to actually keep it. It was not theft in the common sense. Maybe Orange and his fellow psychos are headed in this direction.
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It's still a felony though...
 
Jarhyn said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
I'm trying to think of how Orange Psycho and his team of diaper changers did not commit a crime. More specifically I'm trying to come up with a legal defense of their behavior that would have at least a scintilla of legitimacy. It's one thing to have such material in error and then return it upon discovery but that's not what has happened here.

My military days bring to mind a term called "wrongful appropriation." It means you were in possession of something without the intent to actually keep it. It was not theft in the common sense. Maybe Orange and his fellow psychos are headed in this direction.
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It's still a felony though...
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Generally, most of these laws require flat out intent. Granted, Trump is making that case easier and easier, but there is gray, especially with him as President. Having nuclear docs however... mere possession is a crime, regardless of intent. And they don't even need to be secret.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Jarhyn said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
I'm trying to think of how Orange Psycho and his team of diaper changers did not commit a crime. More specifically I'm trying to come up with a legal defense of their behavior that would have at least a scintilla of legitimacy. It's one thing to have such material in error and then return it upon discovery but that's not what has happened here.

My military days bring to mind a term called "wrongful appropriation." It means you were in possession of something without the intent to actually keep it. It was not theft in the common sense. Maybe Orange and his fellow psychos are headed in this direction.
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It's still a felony though...
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Generally, most of these laws require flat out intent. Granted, Trump is making that case easier and easier, but there is gray, especially with him as President. Having nuclear docs however... mere possession is a crime, regardless of intent. And they don't even need to be secret.
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The standard laws, but you also have to look into the legal structures around the NDAs as well, as these are also binding, legally. There's a lot even in a standard secret clearance NDA about responsibilities to handle them properly, how declassification must be done, and the like.

Even if you would need to have intent to break many of the laws, absent having signed an NDA, the NDA waives much of that in favor of responsibility even for honest mistakes.
 
All I know is that the snickers will turn to guffaws throughout the international community if DOJ can’t find the stones to indict a past president who is an obvious career criminal whose crimes against the nation are plain as day for all to see.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
My military days bring to mind a term called "wrongful appropriation." It means you were in possession of something without the intent to actually keep it.
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That Trump lied about having the items in the first place, and that some of the documents were found not in the shed but in Trump's fucking desk pretty much nails intent. I'm not a lawyer much less a prosecutor but even I can make a solid argument.
 
Lawrence O'Donnell skewered Lindsay Graham last night. It's absolutely breathtaking. O'Donnell is a skilled and talented righteous moralizer and rightful shamer. (That's why I don't watch his show very often. I don't need to have my own regard for Republicans reinforced. I'd rather have it challenged. But I admit it's pretty delicious, and this is one of his best.

Lindsay Graham has no kids, never been married, never a hint of secret kids or relationship scandals. He has no one and nothing that he loves more than his status and office of U.S. Senator. It's all he's got, and he's clearly capable of descending to any depths to protect it.

 
Patooka said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
My military days bring to mind a term called "wrongful appropriation." It means you were in possession of something without the intent to actually keep it.
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That Trump lied about having the items in the first place, and that some of the documents were found not in the shed but in Trump's fucking desk pretty much nails intent. I'm not a lawyer much less a prosecutor but even I can make a solid argument.
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I may have told the story before, but a long time ago I was just out of college and living in a basement apartment with a couple friends when there was a knock on the door one Saturday morning. A man in a suit showed his badge, we let him in, and roused our roommate from his slumber.

"Joe, wake up. The FBI wants to talk to you."

This was the 80s, and we enjoyed some...ah...controlled substances from time to time, so we were all a little worried. The agent wasn't there about that.

One of Joe's former roommates from a few years prior was going for a job with the NSA, and they were doing a very thorough background check. The Bureau tracked down and interviewed everyone who knew Tony, and this was before you could just look up someone on the internet. I learned that morning that if the FBI knocks on your door, chances are they're already way ahead of you.
 
bilby said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
It's one thing to have such material in error and then return it upon discovery
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In the case of TS/SCI material, even that would be evidence of a serious offence. Nobody has such material 'in error' without someone having broken the rules bigly.
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We know Trumpo did not pack those boxes,move them to a truck, unloaded the truck at Mar-A-Lago, and move them to the closet where they resided for months. Now the question is who arranged this removal, at whose orders, and did they know what was in the boxes? Confederates, or dupes? This is going to get oh so investigated, and somebody is gonna squeal. Knowing Trump, he had a sucker engineer the dirty work. Who?
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
bilby said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
It's one thing to have such material in error and then return it upon discovery
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In the case of TS/SCI material, even that would be evidence of a serious offence. Nobody has such material 'in error' without someone having broken the rules bigly.
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We know Trumpo did not pack those boxes,move them to a truck, unloaded the truck at Mar-A-Lago, and move them to the closet where they resided for months. Now the question is who arranged this removal, at whose orders, and did they know what was in the boxes? Confederates, or dupes? This is going to get oh so investigated, and somebody is gonna squeal. Knowing Trump, he had a sucker engineer the dirty work. Who?
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Correction: Has already been investigated, and said investigation is ongoing.

Again, the FBI has already likely had long conversations with anyone who laid hands on the classified stuff, trying to determine the chain of custody and identify the gaps in that chain. The important (and potentially terrifying) questions that need answers are things like "who saw these documents?" and "were copies made?" and "were they disseminated to foreign agents?"

Trump is a simple man in many respects. He is easily distracted by shiny objects or pretty girls, but while at the end of his Presidency was surrounded by very unscrupulous people who were essentially trying to steal everything they could before they got kicked out by the incoming administration. While Trump was busy interrupting wedding guests at his resort, what were the unscrupulous (and much smarter) people doing with their access to the (for a long time unlocked) storage room in the hallway off the pool?
 
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