Mar-a-Largo raided by FBI?

[RVonse]

No, it won't.

The claim by Trump's attorney sounds more like throwing Trump's less astute followers a bone.

"This isn't about national security. It's all about keeping Trump from running for president in 2024."
Tom

Yes. Yes it is.

Trump should be kept as far away as possible from any classified documents, because national security. If all he did was gather up (or have his staff gather up) some documents and put them in a store room at his resort, that would be a national security risk the likes of which hasn't been seen since...um...when was the last time boxes of highly classified documents critical to national security were taken to an unlocked store room in the clubhouse of a golf resort?

It reminds me of my ex mother in law's second husband. Like Trump, he was old and unpleasant. Unlike Trump, he was a recovered raging alcoholic. Before he came over to visit, my ex mother in law (mother outlaw?) implored us to remove any and all alcoholic beverages from our house whether it was a couple beers in the fridge or cooking wine, because he couldn't even be in the presence of alcohol. Was he going to get up out of his wheelchair and fight us over that Bud Light in the fridge? Maybe not...but in any case it was a threat to his exceedingly fragile sobriety, so we complied.

This is like that, but instead of booze, it's the military, intelligence, and nuclear capabilities of the most powerful country on the planet that need to be kept from the unpleasant old man.

But the exact same argument was made about HRC and her emails. One side swears she couldn't be trusted with government data but the other sweared she was getting the raw business over it because of politics.

And there are a couple more data points which still can not be argued around politically. Trump has not yet so far launched any nuclear weapons or given away their secrets to North Korea. And HRC never had the opportunity to do so.

 

[marc]

To me, it sounds more like continuing the grift as long as possible. How else will lawyers get paid?

Considering they are working for Trump, preferably paid up front.

 

[RVonse]

As to why Donald Trump kept those documents, consider his personality. He is not much of a reader, and he has little interest in anything other than himself. So he would likely want to sell those documents to some buyer with a lot of $$$ for him. Saudi Arabia? Russia? China? North Korea?

A billionaire risking his freedom in order to hurt America in order to add a few pennies more to his savings account. Trump is already worth more than North Korea....this just does not sound reasonable to me. No matter how evil you think this guy is.

Of course I have seen some pretty stupid things here at work. Like people losing their 100k/yr job because they were caught stealing $2 worth of copper.....

I really don’t quite understand why people like anything about Trump. Is it that he has money? (He doesn’t). Is it the illusion that he’s a self made man? (He’s not). Is it that he’s an independent, no-nonsense rule breaker? He’s anything but independent, he’s full of nonsense, but yes, he does like breaking rules, norms, laws, contracts, agreement ts of all kinds. He’s not remotely a good person. He’s unintelligent t, tho is as little as possible and when he is forced to think, he thinks only of his own self interest which is: MORE.

Take every single stereotype of selfish, self centered ignorant arrogant tasteless Ugly American and toll them into one gigantic bloated mess and you have: Trump. He makes everything he touches ugly and dirty and corrupt.

It does not take being stupid to elect a tyrant. It merely takes not being a stakeholder. Democracy will only work with genuine stakeholders and our politicians have done best they can to rid themselves of the middle working class. Our politicians represent their investors over their voters and I do not believe democracy can withstand voters (the ones at that point who can still vote) voters who have no stake and are more less nothing more than pheasents. I've talked to several Viet era vets who have told me a lot of the S. Vietnamise did not even care who won because they were poor either way and they were going to stay poor. For them, an authoritative Chinese communist government did not seem so bad of a risk for them. And history is abundant with many more examples of this.




At time stamp 9:45, this is exactly why Im not thinking this is nonsense. This is how normal people behave. According to the author of this video 63% of Republicans believe in "the Great Replacement Theory". A theory, which at first glance does sound wacky. Until you look at many of the individuals who have actually lost their jobs, livelyhoods, and way of life due to gobalism a direct result of political leaders. Now they think their very existance is on the line. The actual demographic numbers show they are right.

Yes in reletive terms, the average Trumpster is vastly better off than the S. Vietnamese. Yet in terms of government representation, his prospects are probably worse. At least the leaders in S. Vietnam were not trying to replace their population with compliant immigration. They were not blaming their existing population for being privaleged, tearing down their history. So is it any wonder that those people want to vote for anything better than what the democrats are advertising?

Another side of this story. Assuming you are even opened minded enough to read any it. https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/08/13/the-democrat-police-state-imposes-its-tyranny/

 

[Elixir]

the exact same argument was made about HRC and her emails.

Yes, Q-balls are known for specious arguments and false equivalences.

One side swears she couldn't be trusted with government data but the other sweared she was getting the raw business over it because of politics.

The difference? I thought we covered this a couple dozen times:

* One side used a server deemed safe by the Secretary of Defense that was not legally specified for that use.

* The other side tried to overthrow the results of a free and fair election via armed assault on our Capitol, demonstrating their willingness to destroy the Country for personal gain, then stole top-level secret materials, stashed them away, lied about having returned them and now is trying to monetize the lawful search and seizure conducted to return those material to their rightful owner.

Still can’t discern the difference? Then …
YOU ARE THE PROBLEM

 

[RVonse]

* One side used a server deemed safe by the Secretary of Defense that was not legally specified for that use.

* The other side tried to overthrow the results of a free and fair election via armed assault on our Capitol, demonstrating their willingness to destroy the Country for personal gain, then stole top-level secret materials, stashed them away, lied about having returned them and now is trying to monetize the lawful search and seizure conducted to return those material to their rightful owner.

No proof of either of those just allegations. You are part of the problem

When someone actually goes to jail for something I will accept that as more than just an allegation.

 

[ZiprHead]

Well, someone just crashed their car into a barricade near the capital in DC. Got out of his car and started firing a weapon. Then he killed himself.

 

[Toni]

* One side used a server deemed safe by the Secretary of Defense that was not legally specified for that use.

* The other side tried to overthrow the results of a free and fair election via armed assault on our Capitol, demonstrating their willingness to destroy the Country for personal gain, then stole top-level secret materials, stashed them away, lied about having returned them and now is trying to monetize the lawful search and seizure conducted to return those material to their rightful owner.

No proof of either of those just allegations. You are part of the problem

When someone actually goes to jail for something I will accept that as more than just an allegation.

Lots of people have already gone to jail for the Jan 6 violence. More on the way.

I am not certain that you realize the burdens that must be overcome to execute a search warrant on the property of a former POTUS--there must have been quite substantial probable cause in order to get such a warrant. Despite what Trump and his gang like to assert, the documents in question were requested, subpeonaed and at every step Trump ignored legal requests and his lawyers lied about what was and was not returned---The documents being retrieved should NEVER have been taken. It was not legal for them to leave with Trump, he had no right to retain them, and it appears that at least some are very highly classified/beyond top secret. Trump did not have the power to declassify documents simply by saying that they were declassified and for some of them, even if Trump had followed all the paperwork necessary to declassify, they still would have remained the property of the US Government.

If Trump retains his passport, I strongly suspect he will avoid being jailed. Otherwise, it does not look good for him or his inner circle or his surrogates.

 

[Elixir]

No proof of either of those

Huh?
I saw the attack on the Capitol and saw the man ordering it.
I saw the list of items seized from that man’s house.
You are asking for indulgence of your willful ignorance.

 

[Elixir]

Trump did not have the power to declassify documents simply by saying that they were declassified

Is there any evidence that he even did that before a few days ago? (An ex-president can’t declassify anything.)

 

[Elixir]

 

[Toni]

Trump did not have the power to declassify documents simply by saying that they were declassified

Is there any evidence that he even did that before a few days ago? (An ex-president can’t declassify anything.)

As far as I can tell, just his say so and that of some of his surrogates. I saw on twitter a document that he signed that made any time he removed from his office to his residence 'declassified' but as far as I can tell, that's not how declassification works. And yes, after he was no longer POTUS, there was no more executive privilege and no more ability to declassify. Also worth noting: Most former POTUS continue receiving security briefs in the interest of continuity/cooperation between administration and a cohesive and coherent response but Biden removed Trump's ability to receive security briefs very soon after taking office, for obvious reasons.

Given that it was known that Trump and his entire administration were serious security risks, I do not understand how every single item or box of papers that left the White House was not duly recorded and anything that was hinted at as being any kind of security risk confiscated on the spot.

 

[Ford]

* One side used a server deemed safe by the Secretary of Defense that was not legally specified for that use.

* The other side tried to overthrow the results of a free and fair election via armed assault on our Capitol, demonstrating their willingness to destroy the Country for personal gain, then stole top-level secret materials, stashed them away, lied about having returned them and now is trying to monetize the lawful search and seizure conducted to return those material to their rightful owner.

No proof of either of those just allegations. You are part of the problem

When someone actually goes to jail for something I will accept that as more than just an allegation.

No you won't.

 

[prideandfall]

Yes in reletive terms, the average Trumpster is vastly better off than the S. Vietnamese. Yet in terms of government representation, his prospects are probably worse. At least the leaders in S. Vietnam were not trying to replace their population with compliant immigration. They were not blaming their existing population for being privaleged, tearing down their history. So is it any wonder that those people want to vote for anything better than what the democrats are advertising?

I know this response is pointless with you, but I just can't help myself...

The first part of your post laying out the issue is literally what Republicans are doing.
Republicans are the ones who deregulated the US market, pushed for globalism, and exported jobs overseas as a matter of monetary policy.
Republicans are the ones who oppose human rights and human decency and endorse wage slavery, which created the issue of the vanishing middle class.
Republicans are the ones trying to eradicate history or rewrite it more delicately.

Those people vote for the problem. Those people *are* the problem.
Democrats have fuck-all to do with it.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Back in the 70's and 80's the CIA was notoriously incompetent. Lots of CIA assents got outed and executed. This becames so notorious, nobody would agree to be a CIA asset. CIA human intelligence suffered greatly as a result. Much to the delight of the USSR and China. And others. It took years of reforms to make the CIA effective again. And here are our ignorant GOP morons undoing all of that.

Ron Paul and others of his ilk are brain damaged.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

No, it won't.

The claim by Trump's attorney sounds more like throwing Trump's less astute followers a bone.

"This isn't about national security. It's all about keeping Trump from running for president in 2024."
Tom

Yes. Yes it is.

Trump should be kept as far away as possible from any classified documents, because national security. If all he did was gather up (or have his staff gather up) some documents and put them in a store room at his resort, that would be a national security risk the likes of which hasn't been seen since...um...when was the last time boxes of highly classified documents critical to national security were taken to an unlocked store room in the clubhouse of a golf resort?

It reminds me of my ex mother in law's second husband. Like Trump, he was old and unpleasant. Unlike Trump, he was a recovered raging alcoholic. Before he came over to visit, my ex mother in law (mother outlaw?) implored us to remove any and all alcoholic beverages from our house whether it was a couple beers in the fridge or cooking wine, because he couldn't even be in the presence of alcohol. Was he going to get up out of his wheelchair and fight us over that Bud Light in the fridge? Maybe not...but in any case it was a threat to his exceedingly fragile sobriety, so we complied.

This is like that, but instead of booze, it's the military, intelligence, and nuclear capabilities of the most powerful country on the planet that need to be kept from the unpleasant old man.

But the exact same argument was made about HRC and her emails. One side swears she couldn't be trusted with government data but the other sweared she was getting the raw business over it because of politics.

And there are a couple more data points which still can not be argued around politically. Trump has not yet so far launched any nuclear weapons or given away their secrets to North Korea. And HRC never had the opportunity to do so.

In HC's case, items that were not classied when HC was accused of being careless withm were later classified. A gotcha move.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Toni]

Back in the 70's and 80's the CIA was notoriously incompetent. Lots of CIA assents got outed and executed. This becames so notorious, nobody would agree to be a CIA asset. CIA human intelligence suffered greatly as a result. Much to the delight of the USSR and China. And others. It took years of reforms to make the CIA effective again. And here are our ignorant GOP morons undoing all of that.

Ron Paul and others of his ilk are brain damaged.

You say brain damaged. I say they know exactly what they're doing and it's lining their pockets.

 

[ZiprHead]

He'll never pass the security clearance.

 

[Patooka]

When someone actually goes to jail for something I will accept that as more than just an allegation.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

*deep breath*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Spare me. You're still having difficulty believing Trump lost the 2020 election or the Jan 6 insurrection wasn't an antifa false flag operation. I have complete confidence in your ability to find some far right deep state bullshit that exonerates Trump. In fact, I'm looking forward to it.

Incidentally, Hillary never went to jail either. Why are you using a different standard towards her?

 

[bilby]

Trump has not yet so far launched any nuclear weapons or given away their secrets to North Korea.

How do you know?