Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

[Loren Pechtel]

Has he even filed a police report yet?

He had to heal from his devastating orbital bone fracture that didn't happen. Granted, there is no evidence to suggest he leaked that. I would be interested to know who did.

That's more likely a reporter more interested in getting his info to press than ensuring the info was accurate.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He had to heal from his devastating orbital bone fracture that didn't happen. Granted, there is no evidence to suggest he leaked that. I would be interested to know who did.

That's more likely a reporter more interested in getting his info to press than ensuring the info was accurate.

The reporter would be the one who reported it (which was a blog, I believe). I want to know who told the reporter.

 

[George S]

See also this from Hurley's legal blog...

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/10/2...inst-officer-in-ferguson-shooting/#more-84467

 

[Toni]

Unfortunately, journalists are not necessarily to be trusted...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Unfortunately, journalists are not necessarily to be trusted...

But a journalist didn't leak it. Someone else did.

 

[Axulus]

More info coming out:

Evidence supports officer’s account of shooting in Ferguson

Ferguson, Mo., police officer Darren Wilson and Michael Brown fought for control of the officer’s gun, and Wilson fatally shot the unarmed teenager after he moved toward the officer as they faced off in the street, according to interviews, news accounts and the full report of the St. Louis County autopsy of Brown’s body.

Because Wilson is white and Brown was black, the case has ignited intense debate over how police interact with African American men. But more than a half-dozen unnamed black witnesses have provided testimony to a St. Louis County grand jury that largely supports Wilson’s account of events of Aug. 9, according to several people familiar with the investigation who spoke with The Washington Post.

Some of the physical evidence — including blood spatter analysis, shell casings and ballistics tests — also supports Wilson’s account of the shooting, The Post’s sources said, which cast Brown as an aggressor who threatened the officer’s life. The sources spoke on condition of anonymity because they are prohibited from publicly discussing the case.

The grand jury is expected to complete its deliberations next month over whether Wilson broke the law in confronting Brown, and the pending decision appears to be prompting the unofficial release of information about the case and what the jurors have been told.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch late Tuesday night published Brown’s official county autopsy report, an analysis of which also suggests the 18-year-old may not have had his hands raised when he was fatally shot, as has been the contention of protesters who have demanded Wilson’s arrest.

Experts told the newspaper that Brown was first shot at close range and may have been reaching for Wilson’s weapon while the officer was still in his vehicle and Brown was standing at the driver’s side window. The autopsy found material “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm” in a wound on Brown’s thumb, the autopsy says.

Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco who reviewed the report for the Post-Dispatch, said it “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.”

Melinek, who is not involved in the investigation, said the autopsy did not support those who claim Brown was attempting to flee or surrender when Wilson shot him in the street.

...

Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, The Washington Post’s sources said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

 

[Shadowy Man]

“supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.”

Should read:

“supports the hypothesis that this guy is reaching for the gun...

 

[Trausti]

More info coming out:

Evidence supports officer’s account of shooting in Ferguson

Ferguson, Mo., police officer Darren Wilson and Michael Brown fought for control of the officer’s gun, and Wilson fatally shot the unarmed teenager after he moved toward the officer as they faced off in the street, according to interviews, news accounts and the full report of the St. Louis County autopsy of Brown’s body.

Because Wilson is white and Brown was black, the case has ignited intense debate over how police interact with African American men. But more than a half-dozen unnamed black witnesses have provided testimony to a St. Louis County grand jury that largely supports Wilson’s account of events of Aug. 9, according to several people familiar with the investigation who spoke with The Washington Post.

Some of the physical evidence — including blood spatter analysis, shell casings and ballistics tests — also supports Wilson’s account of the shooting, The Post’s sources said, which cast Brown as an aggressor who threatened the officer’s life. The sources spoke on condition of anonymity because they are prohibited from publicly discussing the case.

The grand jury is expected to complete its deliberations next month over whether Wilson broke the law in confronting Brown, and the pending decision appears to be prompting the unofficial release of information about the case and what the jurors have been told.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch late Tuesday night published Brown’s official county autopsy report, an analysis of which also suggests the 18-year-old may not have had his hands raised when he was fatally shot, as has been the contention of protesters who have demanded Wilson’s arrest.

Experts told the newspaper that Brown was first shot at close range and may have been reaching for Wilson’s weapon while the officer was still in his vehicle and Brown was standing at the driver’s side window. The autopsy found material “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm” in a wound on Brown’s thumb, the autopsy says.

Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco who reviewed the report for the Post-Dispatch, said it “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.”

Melinek, who is not involved in the investigation, said the autopsy did not support those who claim Brown was attempting to flee or surrender when Wilson shot him in the street.

...

Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, The Washington Post’s sources said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

Do facts really matter in this frenzy to get the Great White Defendant?

 

[RavenSky]

Not really consistent with a graze wound to the thumb. That suggests the thumb was parallel to the barrel, not perpendicular to it. Read the autopsy report. It's wound #11.

totally consistent, plus the media reports conflict as to how close the hand was or wasn't.

And in any case, a shot to his hand isn't what killed him.

It started the series of events that did.

nope. According to you and Loren in the other thread, as soon as one of the parties moved away from the other one, any further altercation is an entirely new incident.

If he really attacked Wilson (as seems very likely) and went for his gun then Wilson had a valid reason to fear further attack if Brown moved toward him even if he was injured.

not from 25 feet away with his hands in the air in surrender. Not when Wilson is supposedly a trained police officer.

A shot to his head did - after he had run approximately 25 feet away and put his hands up in surrender.

An outside medical examiner who read the autopsy report said that the trajectory of the gunshot wounds is not consistent with him raising his hands in surrender. Also, an assailant can cover 25 feet in rather short time. And if he was moving toward the police officer it's still a threatening action no matter what he did with his hands.

It is consistent with Wilson shooting Michael Brown several more times while Brown had his hands in the air, then the fatal shot hitting Michael Brown in the head as he was falling from the other bullet wounds. In other words, Officer Wilson was shooting like a maniac in spite of not being in any danger.

I love how the very same people argue that Michael Brown was so fucking threatening to a supposedly trained police officer that said police officer was justified in killing him from 25 feet away, but Marissa Alexander could not have possibly in any way felt threatened by Rico Gray at a much closer range. The hypocrisy is breath-taking.

It was his house for one. He didn't just rob a store and she wasn't a police officer. Very different situations that need to be evaluated individually.

Her house too. That fact won't change just because you keep ignoring it. He may not have allegedly robbed a store (that the store keeper said he didn't rob) but Rico Gray certainly is a violent thug (to use your favorite phrase). She may not be a police officer, but that would mean to a reasonable person that the police officer should be held to an even higher standard than her.

The situations are not so different that you need to throw out all semblance of consistency, fairness, reason, and unbiased common sense - but that is what you are doing because... Why? Marissa is a female and you hate women even more than you hate black men?

 

[RavenSky]

Pure speculation that Brown was reaching for the gun, as opposed to (for instance) holding his hand out in a "don't shoot" sort of motion. And in any case, a shot to his hand isn't what killed him.

A shot to his head did - after he had run approximately 25 feet away and put his hands up in surrender.

I love how the very same people argue that Michael Brown was so fucking threatening to a supposedly trained police officer that said police officer was justified in killing him from 25 feet away, but Marissa Alexander could not have possibly in any way felt threatened by Rico Gray at a much closer range. The hypocrisy is breath-taking.

Anything to pretend he was an innocent victim.

Lets examine your scenario: Hold your hands out to me in a don't-shoot gesture. Is your thumb pointing at me???? Did the cop have magic curving bullets that could hit from a direction other than where the gun was????

And the issue with the powder is the nature of the initial altercation, not the final shooting.

He is a victim. I never said he was an innocent.

We don't know what happened immediately at the police vehicle. Did the police officer slam his door open and hit Michael Brown with it, thereby causing a scuffle that included him drawing his gun and shooting it once? Entirely plausible. I was once chased for miles by a ranting, frothing, veins-sticking-out-of-his-neck off duty cop because I flagged him a bird for cutting me off in traffic. I had to call 911 on him because he was trying to run me off the road. So yes, I can fully believe that Officer Wilson was pissed off and slammed his car door into Michael Brown (which is what Michael Brown's friend said happened).

Conversely, maybe Michael Brown suddenly went nuts and attacked Officer Wilson half in and half out of the police car. Fine. Let's pretend hypothetically that this is how it went down.

But then, as no one disputes, Michael Brown runs away. Michael Brown gets approximately 25 feet away. Michael Brown throws his hands in the air and turns - or turns and throws his hands in the air, whichever version you like better, I don't care.

Officer Wilson now starts shooting again. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Officer Wilson killed Michael Brown, not because Officer Wilson was in danger or had any REASONABLE fear for his life. That makes Michael Brown a VICTIM of a bad police shooting regardless whether Michael Brown was an innocent choir boy or a bully cigar thief.

 

[Axulus]

Anything to pretend he was an innocent victim.

Lets examine your scenario: Hold your hands out to me in a don't-shoot gesture. Is your thumb pointing at me???? Did the cop have magic curving bullets that could hit from a direction other than where the gun was????

And the issue with the powder is the nature of the initial altercation, not the final shooting.

He is a victim. I never said he was an innocent.

We don't know what happened immediately at the police vehicle. Did the police officer slam his door open and hit Michael Brown with it, thereby causing a scuffle that included him drawing his gun and shooting it once? Entirely plausible. I was once chased for miles by a ranting, frothing, veins-sticking-out-of-his-neck off duty cop because I flagged him a bird for cutting me off in traffic. I had to call 911 on him because he was trying to run me off the road. So yes, I can fully believe that Officer Wilson was pissed off and slammed his car door into Michael Brown (which is what Michael Brown's friend said happened).

Conversely, maybe Michael Brown suddenly went nuts and attacked Officer Wilson half in and half out of the police car. Fine. Let's pretend hypothetically that this is how it went down.

But then, as no one disputes, Michael Brown runs away. Michael Brown gets approximately 25 feet away. Michael Brown throws his hands in the air and turns - or turns and throws his hands in the air, whichever version you like better, I don't care.

Officer Wilson now starts shooting again. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Officer Wilson killed Michael Brown, not because Officer Wilson was in danger or had any REASONABLE fear for his life. That makes Michael Brown a VICTIM of a bad police shooting regardless whether Michael Brown was an innocent choir boy or a bully cigar thief.

Him throwing his hands in the air before he was shot is highly disputed.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch late Tuesday night published Brown’s official county autopsy report, an analysis of which also suggests the 18-year-old may not have had his hands raised when he was fatally shot, as has been the contention of protesters who have demanded Wilson’s arrest.

Victor W. Weedn, chairman of the George Washington University Department of Forensic Sciences, said the autopsy report raises doubts about whether Brown’s hands were raised at the time of the shooting but is not conclusive.

“Somebody could have raised their hands way above their head and lowered their hands and then be shot,” Weedn said. “So an autopsy will never rule out that the hands were above the head. It can only say what happened at the time of the shooting. . . . With the graze to the right arm, it appears the arm was in a vertical position, suggesting that it was closer to down by his side, but it could have been higher.”

The officer claimed that Brown fought for the gun and two shots were fired, which is consistent with the evidence:

The officer said he reached for his gun to defend himself, but Brown grabbed it and only let go after it fired twice. Two casings from Wilson’s gun were recovered from the police SUV, the sources said.

Then, according to the officer, Brown turned and moved toward the officer (and did not surrender _before_ he was shot, the surrender only happened _after_, if at all, consistent with the autopsy report).

After he was shot in the altercation at the vehicle, Brown fled with Johnson, and Wilson testified that he ordered Brown to stop and lower himself to the ground. Instead, Brown turned and moved toward the officer. Wilson said he feared Brown, who was 6-foot-4 and weighed nearly 300 pounds, would overpower him so he repeatedly fired his gun.

Brown was shot at least six times, according to all three autopsies that have been conducted.

The autopsy says that Brown was shot in the forehead, twice in the chest and once in the upper right arm. The fatal wound on top of Brown’s head indicates that he was leaning or falling forward and the path of a sixth shot, which hit Brown’s forearm and traveled from the back of his arm to his inner arm, means Brown’s palms were not facing Wilson in an act of surrender, according to analysts cited by the Post-Dispatch.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Unfortunately, journalists are not necessarily to be trusted...

Unfortunately, journalists are not necessarily to be trusted...

But a journalist didn't leak it. Someone else did.

I'm not sure there's an actual leak. I'm thinking the reporter might have overheard something and not understood all of what he was hearing. (Alternately, someone else overheard it and told the reporter.)


I will say they aren't exactly to be trusted. They're interested in getting the story and having no obvious problems. Getting the details right takes the back seat. The modern 24/7 news cycle makes getting it quickly more important and thus the details are even farther behind.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It started the series of events that did.

nope. According to you and Loren in the other thread, as soon as one of the parties moved away from the other one, any further altercation is an entirely new incident.

Except that's not what I said. It's not merely moving apart, it's breaking contact.

And that's not even relevant here. The issue is whether his later actions were threatening. Advancing on someone pointing a gun at you is a threatening act! It doesn't matter if you're just walking, if you get too close expect them to shoot. Holding your hands up and saying "I surrender" doesn't change this (not that the wounds are consistent with him doing that.)

 

[Horatio Parker]

He is a victim. I never said he was an innocent.

We don't know what happened immediately at the police vehicle. Did the police officer slam his door open and hit Michael Brown with it, thereby causing a scuffle that included him drawing his gun and shooting it once? Entirely plausible. I was once chased for miles by a ranting, frothing, veins-sticking-out-of-his-neck off duty cop because I flagged him a bird for cutting me off in traffic. I had to call 911 on him because he was trying to run me off the road. So yes, I can fully believe that Officer Wilson was pissed off and slammed his car door into Michael Brown (which is what Michael Brown's friend said happened).

Conversely, maybe Michael Brown suddenly went nuts and attacked Officer Wilson half in and half out of the police car. Fine. Let's pretend hypothetically that this is how it went down.

But then, as no one disputes, Michael Brown runs away. Michael Brown gets approximately 25 feet away. Michael Brown throws his hands in the air and turns - or turns and throws his hands in the air, whichever version you like better, I don't care.

Officer Wilson now starts shooting again. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Officer Wilson killed Michael Brown, not because Officer Wilson was in danger or had any REASONABLE fear for his life. That makes Michael Brown a VICTIM of a bad police shooting regardless whether Michael Brown was an innocent choir boy or a bully cigar thief.

Him throwing his hands in the air before he was shot is highly disputed.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch late Tuesday night published Brown’s official county autopsy report, an analysis of which also suggests the 18-year-old may not have had his hands raised when he was fatally shot, as has been the contention of protesters who have demanded Wilson’s arrest.

Victor W. Weedn, chairman of the George Washington University Department of Forensic Sciences, said the autopsy report raises doubts about whether Brown’s hands were raised at the time of the shooting but is not conclusive.

“Somebody could have raised their hands way above their head and lowered their hands and then be shot,” Weedn said. “So an autopsy will never rule out that the hands were above the head. It can only say what happened at the time of the shooting. . . . With the graze to the right arm, it appears the arm was in a vertical position, suggesting that it was closer to down by his side, but it could have been higher.”

The officer claimed that Brown fought for the gun and two shots were fired, which is consistent with the evidence:

The officer said he reached for his gun to defend himself, but Brown grabbed it and only let go after it fired twice. Two casings from Wilson’s gun were recovered from the police SUV, the sources said.

Then, according to the officer, Brown turned and moved toward the officer (and did not surrender _before_ he was shot, the surrender only happened _after_, if at all, consistent with the autopsy report).

After he was shot in the altercation at the vehicle, Brown fled with Johnson, and Wilson testified that he ordered Brown to stop and lower himself to the ground. Instead, Brown turned and moved toward the officer. Wilson said he feared Brown, who was 6-foot-4 and weighed nearly 300 pounds, would overpower him so he repeatedly fired his gun.

Brown was shot at least six times, according to all three autopsies that have been conducted.

The autopsy says that Brown was shot in the forehead, twice in the chest and once in the upper right arm. The fatal wound on top of Brown’s head indicates that he was leaning or falling forward and the path of a sixth shot, which hit Brown’s forearm and traveled from the back of his arm to his inner arm, means Brown’s palms were not facing Wilson in an act of surrender, according to analysts cited by the Post-Dispatch.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

There's weaseling in this story. If MB was falling when the last and fatal shot was fired into his head, it makes sense that his arms weren't raised. That doesn't conflict with his arms being up before he started to go down.

 

[RavenSky]

nope. According to you and Loren in the other thread, as soon as one of the parties moved away from the other one, any further altercation is an entirely new incident.

Except that's not what I said. It's not merely moving apart, it's breaking contact.

You mean like Michael Brown broke contact and got 25 feet away?

And that's not even relevant here. The issue is whether his later actions were threatening. Advancing on someone pointing a gun at you is a threatening act! It doesn't matter if you're just walking, if you get too close expect them to shoot. Holding your hands up and saying "I surrender" doesn't change this (not that the wounds are consistent with him doing that.)

you mean like Rico Gray was advancing on Marissa Alexander? According to what you just said, it doesn't even matter if Rico Gray was "just walking", since he got too close to Marissa (he was far less than 25 feet away) then we should expect Marissa to shoot, even if Rico Gray was saying "I surrender" with his hands in the air.

 

[Axulus]

Him throwing his hands in the air before he was shot is highly disputed.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch late Tuesday night published Brown’s official county autopsy report, an analysis of which also suggests the 18-year-old may not have had his hands raised when he was fatally shot, as has been the contention of protesters who have demanded Wilson’s arrest.

Victor W. Weedn, chairman of the George Washington University Department of Forensic Sciences, said the autopsy report raises doubts about whether Brown’s hands were raised at the time of the shooting but is not conclusive.

“Somebody could have raised their hands way above their head and lowered their hands and then be shot,” Weedn said. “So an autopsy will never rule out that the hands were above the head. It can only say what happened at the time of the shooting. . . . With the graze to the right arm, it appears the arm was in a vertical position, suggesting that it was closer to down by his side, but it could have been higher.”

The officer claimed that Brown fought for the gun and two shots were fired, which is consistent with the evidence:

The officer said he reached for his gun to defend himself, but Brown grabbed it and only let go after it fired twice. Two casings from Wilson’s gun were recovered from the police SUV, the sources said.

Then, according to the officer, Brown turned and moved toward the officer (and did not surrender _before_ he was shot, the surrender only happened _after_, if at all, consistent with the autopsy report).

After he was shot in the altercation at the vehicle, Brown fled with Johnson, and Wilson testified that he ordered Brown to stop and lower himself to the ground. Instead, Brown turned and moved toward the officer. Wilson said he feared Brown, who was 6-foot-4 and weighed nearly 300 pounds, would overpower him so he repeatedly fired his gun.

Brown was shot at least six times, according to all three autopsies that have been conducted.

The autopsy says that Brown was shot in the forehead, twice in the chest and once in the upper right arm. The fatal wound on top of Brown’s head indicates that he was leaning or falling forward and the path of a sixth shot, which hit Brown’s forearm and traveled from the back of his arm to his inner arm, means Brown’s palms were not facing Wilson in an act of surrender, according to analysts cited by the Post-Dispatch.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

There's weaseling in this story. If MB was falling when the last and fatal shot was fired into his head, it makes sense that his arms weren't raised. That doesn't conflict with his arms being up before he started to go down.

The shot to the arm was also inconsistent with it being raised. We also don't know what the seven witnesses have to say because they fear for their safety.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Him throwing his hands in the air before he was shot is highly disputed.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch late Tuesday night published Brown’s official county autopsy report, an analysis of which also suggests the 18-year-old may not have had his hands raised when he was fatally shot, as has been the contention of protesters who have demanded Wilson’s arrest.

Victor W. Weedn, chairman of the George Washington University Department of Forensic Sciences, said the autopsy report raises doubts about whether Brown’s hands were raised at the time of the shooting but is not conclusive.

“Somebody could have raised their hands way above their head and lowered their hands and then be shot,” Weedn said. “So an autopsy will never rule out that the hands were above the head. It can only say what happened at the time of the shooting. . . . With the graze to the right arm, it appears the arm was in a vertical position, suggesting that it was closer to down by his side, but it could have been higher.”

The officer claimed that Brown fought for the gun and two shots were fired, which is consistent with the evidence:

The officer said he reached for his gun to defend himself, but Brown grabbed it and only let go after it fired twice. Two casings from Wilson’s gun were recovered from the police SUV, the sources said.

Then, according to the officer, Brown turned and moved toward the officer (and did not surrender _before_ he was shot, the surrender only happened _after_, if at all, consistent with the autopsy report).

After he was shot in the altercation at the vehicle, Brown fled with Johnson, and Wilson testified that he ordered Brown to stop and lower himself to the ground. Instead, Brown turned and moved toward the officer. Wilson said he feared Brown, who was 6-foot-4 and weighed nearly 300 pounds, would overpower him so he repeatedly fired his gun.

Brown was shot at least six times, according to all three autopsies that have been conducted.

The autopsy says that Brown was shot in the forehead, twice in the chest and once in the upper right arm. The fatal wound on top of Brown’s head indicates that he was leaning or falling forward and the path of a sixth shot, which hit Brown’s forearm and traveled from the back of his arm to his inner arm, means Brown’s palms were not facing Wilson in an act of surrender, according to analysts cited by the Post-Dispatch.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

There's weaseling in this story. If MB was falling when the last and fatal shot was fired into his head, it makes sense that his arms weren't raised. That doesn't conflict with his arms being up before he started to go down.

The shot to the arm was also inconsistent with it being raised. We also don't know what the seven witnesses have to say because they fear for their safety.

More weasling. Apparently anything to discredit the eyewitnesses. If we base prosecutions on what black people say, chaos ensues.

Anyway, the arm wound occurred during the struggle at the SUV. Obviously, an arm stuck through a window can not also be simultaneously raised over the head.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I will ask again

When the fatal shots were fired, where was Michael Brown and what was he doing? Was Officer Wilson in danger when he fired the fatal shots?

 

[Axulus]

Him throwing his hands in the air before he was shot is highly disputed.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch late Tuesday night published Brown’s official county autopsy report, an analysis of which also suggests the 18-year-old may not have had his hands raised when he was fatally shot, as has been the contention of protesters who have demanded Wilson’s arrest.

Victor W. Weedn, chairman of the George Washington University Department of Forensic Sciences, said the autopsy report raises doubts about whether Brown’s hands were raised at the time of the shooting but is not conclusive.

“Somebody could have raised their hands way above their head and lowered their hands and then be shot,” Weedn said. “So an autopsy will never rule out that the hands were above the head. It can only say what happened at the time of the shooting. . . . With the graze to the right arm, it appears the arm was in a vertical position, suggesting that it was closer to down by his side, but it could have been higher.”

The officer claimed that Brown fought for the gun and two shots were fired, which is consistent with the evidence:

The officer said he reached for his gun to defend himself, but Brown grabbed it and only let go after it fired twice. Two casings from Wilson’s gun were recovered from the police SUV, the sources said.

Then, according to the officer, Brown turned and moved toward the officer (and did not surrender _before_ he was shot, the surrender only happened _after_, if at all, consistent with the autopsy report).

After he was shot in the altercation at the vehicle, Brown fled with Johnson, and Wilson testified that he ordered Brown to stop and lower himself to the ground. Instead, Brown turned and moved toward the officer. Wilson said he feared Brown, who was 6-foot-4 and weighed nearly 300 pounds, would overpower him so he repeatedly fired his gun.

Brown was shot at least six times, according to all three autopsies that have been conducted.

The autopsy says that Brown was shot in the forehead, twice in the chest and once in the upper right arm. The fatal wound on top of Brown’s head indicates that he was leaning or falling forward and the path of a sixth shot, which hit Brown’s forearm and traveled from the back of his arm to his inner arm, means Brown’s palms were not facing Wilson in an act of surrender, according to analysts cited by the Post-Dispatch.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

There's weaseling in this story. If MB was falling when the last and fatal shot was fired into his head, it makes sense that his arms weren't raised. That doesn't conflict with his arms being up before he started to go down.

The shot to the arm was also inconsistent with it being raised. We also don't know what the seven witnesses have to say because they fear for their safety.

More weasling. Apparently anything to discredit the eyewitnesses. If we base prosecutions on what black people say, chaos ensues.

Anyway, the arm wound occurred during the struggle at the SUV. Obviously, an arm stuck through a window can not also be simultaneously raised over the head.

I said it was highly disputed, not that it didn't happen. You are trying to find any way to make it possible, which is no where near solid enough to convict someone.

- - - Updated - - -

I will ask again

When the fatal shots were fired, where was Michael Brown and what was he doing? Was Officer Wilson in danger when he fired the fatal shots?

Wilson claims that Brown was charging at him. Being tall and almost 300 pounds, he feared he would be overpowered (like he almost was previously when two shots were fired inside his SUV as Brown tried to wrestle control of the gun from Wilson). According to the Post, 7 black eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with this (but have not gone public because they fear the mob is a risk to their safety), and the autopsy report is consistent with Brown not having raised up his arms in surrender when shot.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm not sure what the argument is here. I don't think anyone disputes that there was an altercation at the vehicle and that Brown should have surrendered at that point. But he then ran away. The question is what happened when he was killed 25 feet away from Officer Wilson.

ATA, I was listening to a radio program today when someone called in and said that he was a police officer. He said regulation police holsters are designed so that it is nearly impossible for anyone other than the person wearing the holster to remove the weapon, designed that way on purpose.

Then we have police that cry out "Stop grabbing my gun" when just to cover their dirty asses. See [YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkgGZV3t7kA[/YOUTUBE]