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Mueller investigation

I've argued this before, but it bears repeating; trying to unravel a conspiracy is lot like finding evidence of a black hole. Because the ability to detect the black hole itself is so difficult, one has to look at the objects surrounding the black hole to see whether or not they are behaving in a way that would be consistent with what a black hole would cause.

If Trump and Putin sat in a room together back in 2013 and Putin said, "We have a plan to put you into the Oval office and if it works, you will do X,Y and Z for us," unless that room were bugged by the CIA, it would be exceedingly difficult to prove--in a court of law--that this is what was discussed and agreed upon by the two men. So, if we suspected that was the case, we'd have to look at everything surrounding those two men to see if we find any evidence of that initial black hole agreement.

And that is exactly what we are seeing.

The second test, of course, would be if there is any other legitimate reason for any of that activity that would tend to discount the idea of a black hole at the center of it. The ONLY other reason that has ever been presented by any of the people involved is that our entire intelligence community are closet Democrats so in love with Hillary Clinton and so butt hurt over her loss, that THIS is the reason they are conducting these investigations. That's it. That is the sole reason given by Trump etal for everything happening right now; because Mueller so loved Hillary Clinton and was so disappointed in her not being President, that he is conducting a "witch hunt" out of spite alone and EVERYONE in the entire intelligence community shares the same butt-hurt love.

Iow, there is no other legitimate explanation.
 
Listened to Malcolm Nance this morning. He firmly believes Bonespurs is a Russian asset and actively working for the Russians. The recent release by the Russians that another unannounced and unmonitored meeting between Putin and Bonespurs occurred is the Russians reminding Bonespurs that they have kompromat on him and he better stay in line.

 Malcolm Nance
 
I really do hope that he is a Russian agent because that would give a level of logic and sense to everything that's been going on. If he's not, then that just leaves us scratching our heads when we look back on history and wondering to ourselves WTF all that bullshit was actually about.
 
I really do hope that he is a Russian agent

Asset. Agent implies he is actually Russian and was planted in America, or otherwise actively pursued--of his own volition--a career in Russian Intelligence. Asset implies that he was turned (either through passive or active measures, such as ideological conditioning or blackmail) into doing Russia's bidding.

Either way, he's guilty of, at least, being an accomplice to the commission of treasonous acts. Hell, just by soliciting Russia's help in releasing stolen materials he is guilty of suborning espionage.
 
Manafort's plea deal is now off. He's going to jail for the rest of his life.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/13/6945...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20190213

Expect a pardon.
I ponder the legality of a pardon if what Manafort lied about can be linked to what Trump lied about in his answers. The danger here is that Manafort was lying and in contact with Trump's legal team. There is only one reason to do this when held in context with Mueller waiting for Trump to submit his answers to questions before blowing the whistle. Trump and Manafort conspired (that'd be a new crime) to lie.
 
There is only one reason to do this when held in context with Mueller waiting for Trump to submit his answers to questions before blowing the whistle. Trump and Manafort conspired (that'd be a new crime) to lie.
Well, accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

So, if he lied to prosecutors, and shared those lies with Trump's team, and Trump echoed those lies, then accepting the pardon makes Manafort a witness to Trump's perjury.

Would Trump offer a pardon if there's a chance it'll just be confirmation of his own crime?
 
There is only one reason to do this when held in context with Mueller waiting for Trump to submit his answers to questions before blowing the whistle. Trump and Manafort conspired (that'd be a new crime) to lie.
Well, accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

So, if he lied to prosecutors, and shared those lies with Trump's team, and Trump echoed those lies, then accepting the pardon makes Manafort a witness to Trump's perjury.

Would Trump offer a pardon if there's a chance it'll just be confirmation of his own crime?
Mueller already knew Manafort was:
1) lying
2) coordinating with Trump's lawyers

It would seem as if Mueller already knows and can demonstrate it. The timing of Manafort being caught lying is definitely bad news for Trump personally.
 
There is only one reason to do this when held in context with Mueller waiting for Trump to submit his answers to questions before blowing the whistle. Trump and Manafort conspired (that'd be a new crime) to lie.
Well, accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

So, if he lied to prosecutors, and shared those lies with Trump's team, and Trump echoed those lies, then accepting the pardon makes Manafort a witness to Trump's perjury.

Would Trump offer a pardon if there's a chance it'll just be confirmation of his own crime?
Mueller already knew Manafort was:
1) lying
2) coordinating with Trump's lawyers

It would seem as if Mueller already knows and can demonstrate it. The timing of Manafort being caught lying is definitely bad news for Trump personally.

Yes, but everyone is entitled to a defense, such as it may be... and by accepting a pardon, one is admitting guilt... if the admission of guilt damages Trump's defense, then none will be offered so as not to endanger himself.
 
Manafort's plea deal is now off. He's going to jail for the rest of his life.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/13/6945...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20190213

Expect a pardon.
I ponder the legality of a pardon if what Manafort lied about can be linked to what Trump lied about in his answers. The danger here is that Manafort was lying and in contact with Trump's legal team. There is only one reason to do this when held in context with Mueller waiting for Trump to submit his answers to questions before blowing the whistle. Trump and Manafort conspired (that'd be a new crime) to lie.

Whether it's legal for him to pardon Manafort is pretty much irrelevant to whether he will pardon him.
 
I ponder the legality of a pardon if what Manafort lied about can be linked to what Trump lied about in his answers. The danger here is that Manafort was lying and in contact with Trump's legal team. There is only one reason to do this when held in context with Mueller waiting for Trump to submit his answers to questions before blowing the whistle. Trump and Manafort conspired (that'd be a new crime) to lie.

Whether it's legal for him to pardon Manafort is pretty much irrelevant to whether he will pardon him.

But would be a typically Trump-dumb move as then pleading the fifth would no longer apply to Manafort. Trump can't pardon Manafort of everything Congress or the JD could do to compel him to spill everything without that fifth amendment protection.
 
I ponder the legality of a pardon if what Manafort lied about can be linked to what Trump lied about in his answers. The danger here is that Manafort was lying and in contact with Trump's legal team. There is only one reason to do this when held in context with Mueller waiting for Trump to submit his answers to questions before blowing the whistle. Trump and Manafort conspired (that'd be a new crime) to lie.

Whether it's legal for him to pardon Manafort is pretty much irrelevant to whether he will pardon him.

I think Trump can pardon Manafort, no problem. Doing so to save Trumps ass could be another charge against Trump, obstruction and/or witness tampering.
 
I ponder the legality of a pardon if what Manafort lied about can be linked to what Trump lied about in his answers. The danger here is that Manafort was lying and in contact with Trump's legal team. There is only one reason to do this when held in context with Mueller waiting for Trump to submit his answers to questions before blowing the whistle. Trump and Manafort conspired (that'd be a new crime) to lie.

Whether it's legal for him to pardon Manafort is pretty much irrelevant to whether he will pardon him.

I think Trump can pardon Manafort, no problem. Doing so to save Trumps ass could be another charge against Trump, obstruction and/or witness tampering.
By not pardoning, he would force Manafort to talk, I doubt he does not know something Mueller does not know already. Quite a dilemma.
 
I think Trump can pardon Manafort, no problem. Doing so to save Trumps ass could be another charge against Trump, obstruction and/or witness tampering.
By not pardoning, he would force Manafort to talk, I doubt he does not know something Mueller does not know already. Quite a dilemma.

Yeah, especially the prospect that Floof mentions, of Manafort losing 5th Amendment protections after a pardon. Hard to say who's in a bigger bind - Trump or Manafort.
 
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