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Mueller investigation

Tom Sawyer said:
Keith&Co. said:
But a pardon is an admission of guilt. At least, accepting it is.

So wouldn't pardoning X for breaking the law with Y makes it easier to prosecute Y...? "Your buddy already admitted to doing it..."
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No. With the sheriff guy, he pardoned him before the trial and just made the charges go away. The dude never admitted to anything and wasn't even involved in the decision making.
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Does the sheriff lose 5th amendment protection? I’d think he would...
 
Tom Sawyer said:
Keith&Co. said:
But a pardon is an admission of guilt. At least, accepting it is.

So wouldn't pardoning X for breaking the law with Y makes it easier to prosecute Y...? "Your buddy already admitted to doing it..."
Click to expand...

No. With the sheriff guy, he pardoned him before the trial and just made the charges go away. The dude never admitted to anything and wasn't even involved in the decision making.
Click to expand...

That's not true, Arpaio was convicted.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
Keith&Co. said:
But a pardon is an admission of guilt. At least, accepting it is.

So wouldn't pardoning X for breaking the law with Y makes it easier to prosecute Y...? "Your buddy already admitted to doing it..."
Click to expand...

No. With the sheriff guy, he pardoned him before the trial and just made the charges go away. The dude never admitted to anything and wasn't even involved in the decision making.
Click to expand...

Not quite. Sheriff Arpaio was convicted. He just had not been sentenced yet.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
Keith&Co. said:
But a pardon is an admission of guilt. At least, accepting it is.

So wouldn't pardoning X for breaking the law with Y makes it easier to prosecute Y...? "Your buddy already admitted to doing it..."
Click to expand...

No. With the sheriff guy, he pardoned him before the trial and just made the charges go away. The dude never admitted to anything and wasn't even involved in the decision making.
Click to expand...
Uh, no. Arpaio just tried to get the charges to go away, to get the conviction vacated because he was pardoned.

The judge refused to do that, saying that the pardon protects him from punishment, but doesn't change the historical fact of the conviction.

"Citing legal precedents, Bolton said that while a pardon removes the threat of punishment, it does not "blot out guilt." Instead, she wrote in her decision, accepting a pardon implies a confession of guilt."

And he can never appeal the ruling, so he's open to lawsuits on the subject he's just proven guilty of.
 
We called it! Manafort indicted, and he turned himself in this morning

Sent from my SM-G920T1 using Tapatalk
 
Plus Manafort associate Rick Gates.

Raw Story...
Additionally, a secret memo that leaked last year revealed that Ukrainian authorities have accused Manafort of organizing protests against a NATO military exercise in Ukraine on behalf of the pro-Russian Party of Regions. One American soldier who was in Ukraine at the time revealed that protesters organized by Manafort threw rocks at NATO troops en route to the training exercise.



Pariah!
 
The right-wing response thus far has been "It is just financial crimes that have nothing to do with the POTUS so this is just a witch hunt." Well, except that he was for some reason made said POTUS's campaign manager. So many senior members of the campaign and administration having such strong ties with Russian oligarchs and the Russian government itself is clearly just coincidence, right?
 
And here we go...

Season One of the Trump Admin ended on Saturday with the indictment cliffhanger.
Luckily Season Two starts up immediately and we now know it is Manafort and Gates.

Interesting that Mueller almost seemed to play from a page by Trump, to secretly announce an announcement that will be coming up later. Mueller made the entire election team squirm over the weekend. And Trump is getting desperate. He is whining about Uranium deals. Maybe a few weeks before he trots out Vince Foster.
 
Artemus said:
The right-wing response thus far has been "It is just financial crimes that have nothing to do with the POTUS so this is just a witch hunt." Well, except that he was for some reason made said POTUS's campaign manager. So many senior members of the campaign and administration having such strong ties with Russian oligarchs and the Russian government itself is clearly just coincidence, right?
Click to expand...
Right Wing: It is just financial stuff with Russia.
Left Wing: So you are saying you don't disagree with the indictment and Manafort is guilty?
Right Wing: Absolutely not. These charges are outrageous, however, they are just financial stuff with Russia.
Left Wing: Didn't Trump do a good deal of business with Russia?
Right Wing: I voted for Trump because I supported Mike Pence.
 
Charges are in:


  • conspiracy against the United States
  • conspiracy to launder money
  • being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal
  • false and misleading FARA statements
  • false statements
  • seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts

Operation Turn Manafort is on. I'm pretty certain, that unless he was pushed into this by his Russian counterparts, he is terribly regretting getting into the spotlight with the Trump Campaign. The bottom four seem like extremely easy things to prove. The top two a bit harder. What is interesting is the "Conspiracy against the United States". Everything else sounds like relative chip shots, but what is "Conspiracy against the United States"?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Charges are in:


  • conspiracy against the United States
  • conspiracy to launder money
  • being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal
  • false and misleading FARA statements
  • false statements
  • seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts

Operation Turn Manafort is on. I'm pretty certain, that unless he was pushed into this by his Russian counterparts, he is terribly regretting getting into the spotlight with the Trump Campaign. The bottom four seem like extremely easy things to prove. The top two a bit harder. What is interesting is the "Conspiracy against the United States". Everything else sounds like relative chip shots, but what is "Conspiracy against the United States"?
Click to expand...

Well, if he worked with a foreign government to try and influence the outcome of the election, that counts as conspiracy against the US, IIRC.

These charges are serious enough that Manafort is looking at a long jail sentence. That makes him a good candidate to flip against others ... unless he gets pardoned for all of these crimes, of course.
 
link to indictment

Looks like "Conspiracy against the United States" involves everything they did to keep the laundering and representation of Foreign powers from the knowledge of Depts of Treasury and Justice
 
Tom Sawyer said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Charges are in:


  • conspiracy against the United States
  • conspiracy to launder money
  • being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal
  • false and misleading FARA statements
  • false statements
  • seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts

Operation Turn Manafort is on. I'm pretty certain, that unless he was pushed into this by his Russian counterparts, he is terribly regretting getting into the spotlight with the Trump Campaign. The bottom four seem like extremely easy things to prove. The top two a bit harder. What is interesting is the "Conspiracy against the United States". Everything else sounds like relative chip shots, but what is "Conspiracy against the United States"?
Click to expand...

Well, if he worked with a foreign government to try and influence the outcome of the election, that counts as conspiracy against the US, IIRC.
Click to expand...
Nothing about the election in the indictment... at leas the US 2016 election.
 
Meanwhile, on Sunday, regarding Trump's TweetStorm Trump spokesperson noted:

article said:
"Contrary to what many have suggested, the President's comments today are unrelated to the activities of the special counsel, with whom he continues to cooperate," Cobb told CNN's Jeff Zeleny.
Click to expand...
Trump could very likely get himself charged with Tweets at some point. He is so used to having an army of lawyers shielding him, he doesn't realize actions actually have consequences.
 
Conspiracy against the United States?

Against the government?

What is the United States?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Meanwhile, on Sunday, regarding Trump's TweetStorm Trump spokesperson noted:

article said:
"Contrary to what many have suggested, the President's comments today are unrelated to the activities of the special counsel, with whom he continues to cooperate," Cobb told CNN's Jeff Zeleny.
Click to expand...
Trump could very likely get himself charged with Tweets at some point. He is so used to having an army of lawyers shielding him, he doesn't realize actions actually have consequences.
Click to expand...

To be fair, for Trump, actions do not seem to have much relation to (negative) consequences (for him). So far.

The rest of us are not so fortunate with regards to the consequences of Trump's actions.
 
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