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Mueller investigation

https://hillreporter.com/mueller-ca...-abruptly-shut-down-scheduled-interview-14185

Jerome Corsi, a confidant of Roger Stone, has become a key name in the Mueller investigation. Corsi has been speaking with Mueller for the last few weeks as have a number of Stone’s friends.

Anna Schecter from the Daily Beast was planning on speaking with Corsi today, but his lawyers shut the talk down. The lawyers were apparently panicked by a call they received from the Special Counsel’s office.

Either those lawyers are spooked about something more substantive than perjury, or they honestly think their client is incapable of speaking without committing perjury.
 
https://twitter.com/PortlusGlam/status/1062261509491896320

(pix of court documents in above thread)

The Russians are being sued for hacking the DNC. Their defense is to argue that what they did was an act of war.

But if what they did was an act of war, doesn't that mean that everyone who helped the Russians is a traitor?

Doesn't that mean the Republican unwillingness to respond to an act of war is also some form of treason? If not treason, at least an attempt to place America in greater danger through sheer incompetence and negligence?
 
The Russians are being sued for hacking the DNC. Their defense is to argue that what they did was an act of war.

But if what they did was an act of war, doesn't that mean that everyone who helped the Russians is a traitor?

There is probably someone (a lot of people) here more qualified to answer your questions than I am, but I ain't lettin' THAT stop me. So...
YES

Doesn't that mean the Republican unwillingness to respond to an act of war is also some form of treason?

YES

If not treason, at least an attempt to place America in greater danger through sheer incompetence and negligence?

NO. Those criminals weren't born yesterday. It's TREASON.
 
Are we allowed to accuse people of treason if they helped a hostile foreign power do what the foreign power considered an act of war?

Won't that trigger the conservatives and libertarians?

I thought it only counts as treason if you ask the police to stop murdering random minorities in the streets.
 
Won't that trigger the conservatives and libertarians?

Probably, yes. But they have so very many trigger points, they're going to get triggered no matter what. The good news is that increasingly, they are shooting blanks. Soon we may be able to ignore them altogether.
 
Won't that trigger the conservatives and libertarians?

Probably, yes. But they have so very many trigger points, they're going to get triggered no matter what. The good news is that increasingly, they are shooting blanks. Soon we may be able to ignore them altogether.

What a nice dream. :) But probably just that. Don't underestimate people who place ideology above human beings and conscience.
 
https://twitter.com/PortlusGlam/status/1062261509491896320

(pix of court documents in above thread)

The Russians are being sued for hacking the DNC. Their defense is to argue that what they did was an act of war.

Well, not quite. They are indirectly arguing that.

Here's the actual brief: DNC vs Russian Federation.

From what I can gather, their argument is that the DNC in its complaint (that precipitated their response), is alleging and using terms like "Russia's military intelligence agency" and "military attack" and that the:

U.S. District Court lacks subject-matter jurisdiction under the FSIA to hear claims against the Russian Federation based on the DNCs allegations.

Iow, it looks like they are arguing that, because the DNC used military terms to describe Russia's actions, the US District Court is the wrong court to try the case.

Now, that's in regard to that particular case. The implication of their argument, however, is indeed that they are tacitly conceding what they did was a military act and as such an act of war.

So, there's that. Whether or not Mueller would incorporate such esoterica into his final report/recommendations is doubtful, but the House could most definitely use such a ploy in their assessment of what happened in 2016 in their grounds for impeachment.

It all depends, of course, on whether or not anything ties Trump directly to Putin, which is seriously doubtful unless someone like Stone (or Bannon or Manaforte) testifies to the fact that they personally witnessed/overheard conversations between Trump and Putin (and/or Putin surrogates) specifically discussing strategy or any other before the fact revelations and the like.

THEN this could be used to establish a defacto state of war existed in which case treason could be better applied, but more likely Trump's downfall will be his extensive money-laundering and tax fraud and the like. Trying Trump for treason is a distant possibility--and will likely be a large part of the spectacle--but probably not the center focus unless, as I said, there are several smoking guns to prove it.
 
Are we allowed to accuse people of treason if they helped a hostile foreign power do what the foreign power considered an act of war?

Yeah, aiding a country we are at war with is treason. Plenty of Trump's people should get the needle.
 
Are we allowed to accuse people of treason if they helped a hostile foreign power do what the foreign power considered an act of war?

Yeah, aiding a country we are at war with is treason. Plenty of Trump's people should get the needle.
Russia and US are not at war. And even alleged meddling is hardly an act of war.
So, you need to declare war first and then only then start treating contacts with these bad Russian guys as treason.
 
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Are we allowed to accuse people of treason if they helped a hostile foreign power do what the foreign power considered an act of war?

Yeah, aiding a country we are at war with is treason. Plenty of Trump's people should get the needle.
Russia and US are not at war.

How dare you line up in opposition to the great Pootey?

And even alleged meddling is hardly an act of war.

Not what Pootey says.

So, you need to declare war first and then only then start treating contacts with these bad Russian guys as treason.

Congress? Declare war? Against the guy keeping them in power?
Yeah, right.
 
Russia and US are not at war.

Your opinion on the matter is hardly relevant, expert or definitive. Regardless, any country that attacks another country for the purpose of overthrowing its government is arguably in a defacto state of war, whether or not an official declaration has been made by Congress.

And even alleged meddling is hardly an act of war.

If it had been a general attempt simply to sow chaos without any clearly defined goal, perhaps, but this was a coordinated attack with the sole purpose of overthrowing our government and installing a Russian asset into our highest office.

That is unquestionably a treasonous act on Trump's part. Our constitution clearly defines Treason:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

The "Or" has been debated throughout the years, but it clearly distinguishes one of two conditions; levying War OR adhering to our enemies, giving them aid and comfort. Thus, it then would hinge on either the defining qualities of "levying" or of "enemies," which some have argued can only come from an official declaration from Congress, but, technically is defined as:

(2) the term “enemy” means any country, government, group, or person that has been engaged in hostilities, whether or not lawfully authorized, with the United States;
(3) the term “person” means—
(A) any natural person;
(B) any corporation, partnership, or other legal entity; and
(C) any organization, association, or group...

"Hostilities" then becomes the operative term and certainly a very good argument can be made that a coordinated cyber attack with the sole purpose of overthrowing our government would constitute a hostile act.

In regard to what constitutes "levying war," Chief Justice Marshall had this to say in Ex Parte Ballman:

To constitute that specific crime for which the prisoners now before the Court have been commuted, war must be actually levied against the United States. However flagitious may be the crime of conspiring to subvert by force the Government of our country, such conspiracy is not treason. To conspire to levy war. and actually to levy war, are distinct offences. The first must be brought into operation by an assemblage of men for a purpose, treasonable in itself, or the fact of levying war cannot have been committed.
...
It is not the intention of the Court to say that no individual can be guilty of this crime who has not appeared in arms against his country. On the contrary, if war be actually levied, that is, if a body of men Be actually assembled for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose, all those who perform any part, however minute, or however remote from the scene of action, and who are actually leagued in the general conspiracy, are to be considered as traitors. But there must be an actual assembling of men for a treasonable purpose to constitute levying of war.

There was such an "actual assembling of men for a treasonable purpose"--including "effecting by force a treasonable purpose" as the hackers literally had to force their way into our systems--so the two defining qualities of "levying" are met.

Further:

In the case of The United States vs. FRIES, Mr. Justice CHASE said on the trial, and stated the opinion of the Court to be,

"That if a body of people, conspire and meditate an insurrection to resist or oppose the execution of any statute of the United States by force, they are only guilty of a high misdemeanor; but if they proceed to carry such intention into execution by force, that they are guilty of the treason of levying war; and the quantum of the force employed neither lessens or increases the crime -- whether by one hundred or one thousand persons is wholly immaterial;"
...
"and that it is altogether immaterial whether the force used is sufficient to effectuate the object; any force connected with the intention will constitute the crime of levying war."

Marshall again (emphasis mine):

In the case of the United States vs. AARON BURR, Chief-Justice MARSHALL said:

"There is no difficulty in affirming that there must be a war, or the crime of levying it cannot exist; but there would often be considerable difficulty in affirming that a particular act did or did not involve the person committing it in the guilt and in the fact of levying war. If, for example, an army should be actually raised for the avowed purpose of carrying on open war against the United States and subverting their Government, the point must be weighed very deliberately before a Judge would venture to decide that an overt act of levying war had not been committed by a Commissary of purchases who never saw the army, but who, knowing its object, and leaguing himself with the rebels supplied that army with provisions; or by a Recruiting-officer, holding a commission in the rebel service, who, though never in camp, executed the particular duty assigned to him."

That the army of so-called Russian "trolls" had computers for weapons as opposed to any other form of weaponry and that therefore they were engaging in a more modern form of "cyber" warfare is not germane to the fact that an army actually was raised for the avowed purpose of carrying on open war against the US and subverting our government.

So, you need to declare war first

Not necessarily. Plus there is also the fact that Russia's invasion of the Ukraine was arguably antagonistic toward the US (regardless of how it deliberately skated just under the NATO wire) and our subsequent sanctions indicative of a hostile condition, also short of official "enemy" status, certainly, but evidently escalating toward the eventual attack against us starting circa 2013.

Regardless, it's unlikely anyone will formerly charge Trump with treason as it would not only be difficult, but necessary. There are numerous other equally impeachable offenses with which to charge him.
 
So, you need to declare war first and then only then start treating contacts with these bad Russian guys as treason.
Congress? Declare war? Against the guy keeping them in power?
Yeah, right.
The constitution says 'enemies.' We don't have to be at war with someone for them to be our enemies. That just requires actively opposed to us. Hostile.
So giving aid and comfort to someone trying to destabilize our government qualifies.
 
If the media is "the enemy of the people", and the White House provides chairs and refreshments to the press pool, then isn't the entire cabinet guilty of providing aid and comfort to the "enemy"?
 
Holy sweet fucking fuckcakes.

The Russians have made a direct attack on our very sovereignty and conservatives in this thread are carefully parsing the definition of "treason" instead of offering a more appropriate response to an act of war. Imagine if the Democratic FDR responded to Pearl Harbor this way. "Sure, the Japanese bombed us at Pearl Harbor, but let's carefully analyze the definition of the word 'attack' here[ent]hellip[/ent]"
 
Holy sweet fucking fuckcakes.

The Russians have made a direct attack on our very sovereignty and conservatives in this thread are carefully parsing the definition of "treason" instead of offering a more appropriate response to an act of war. Imagine if the Democratic FDR responded to Pearl Harbor this way. "Sure, the Japanese bombed us at Pearl Harbor, but let's carefully analyze the definition of the word 'attack' here[ent]hellip[/ent]"
*checks history books*
FDR said:
However, America, I must remind you. Do you really think we are innocent? Does the USS Maine ring a bell. The event at Pearl Harbor is regrettable, and Emperor Hirohito has assured me that the Japanese empire was not responsible. He was very consistent in his denial. We must be able to be willing to talk openly with our allies and not let this day be ruled by infamy.
 
Holy sweet fucking fuckcakes.

The Russians have made a direct attack on our very sovereignty and conservatives in this thread are carefully parsing the definition of "treason" instead of offering a more appropriate response to an act of war. Imagine if the Democratic FDR responded to Pearl Harbor this way. "Sure, the Japanese bombed us at Pearl Harbor, but let's carefully analyze the definition of the word 'attack' here[ent]hellip[/ent]"
*checks history books*
FDR said:
However, America, I must remind you. Do you really think we are innocent? Does the USS Maine ring a bell. The event at Pearl Harbor is regrettable, and Emperor Hirohito has assured me that the Japanese empire was not responsible. He was very consistent in his denial. We must be able to be willing to talk openly with our allies and not let this day be ruled by infamy.

Further[ent]hellip[/ent]
FDR said:
Those members of the US military and US intelligence who say that Japan was behind the attack are lying. We should believe the Japanese and not our own military on this one, believe me!
 
Holy sweet fucking fuckcakes.

The Russians have made a direct attack on our very sovereignty and conservatives in this thread are carefully parsing the definition of "treason" instead of offering a more appropriate response to an act of war. Imagine if the Democratic FDR responded to Pearl Harbor this way. "Sure, the Japanese bombed us at Pearl Harbor, but let's carefully analyze the definition of the word 'attack' here[ent]hellip[/ent]"

I don't know if that was directed at me (being one of the conservatives in this thread, and all), but I was kidding.
Of course a cyber attack is an attack.. it's right there in the name. "Cold War"... "War" is right there in the name.
 
Are we allowed to accuse people of treason if they helped a hostile foreign power do what the foreign power considered an act of war?

Yeah, aiding a country we are at war with is treason. Plenty of Trump's people should get the needle.
Russia and US are not at war. And even alleged meddling is hardly an act of war.
So, you need to declare war first and then only then start treating contacts with these bad Russian guys as treason.

You apparently missed the bit where their defense was it was an act of war.
 
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