My faith in the laws of economics has been reaffirmed.

[untermensche]

You are somebody that pulls "facts" from your ass and tries to pass them off as knowledge.

Animals that are treated decently generally behave differently from animals that are abused.

Humans that live in decent circumstances behave differently from humans living in abusive circumstances.

Genes have less to say about behavior than experience.

Still ignorant of twin studies, I see.

Twins are raised in the same womb and experience the same stimulations in that womb.

They are the products of a similar environment during crucial stages of early development.

Their similarities are based greatly on shared experience.

But some ignorantly claim they are based merely on genetics.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Thanks for the good laugh. Human behavior is much more complex than you are making it out to be. People's behavior for example changes when they are being watched or not being watched.

In what culture are you talking about this human behavior?

Because human behavior is dependent on culture and experience.

Only a fool would deny it.

Yes, cultural experience does affect behavior. We are arguing the underlying behaviors though. Of course if a human is living by himself with no other humans there is no culture, and they won't steal.

 

[coloradoatheist]

You are somebody that pulls "facts" from your ass and tries to pass them off as knowledge.

Animals that are treated decently generally behave differently from animals that are abused.

Humans that live in decent circumstances behave differently from humans living in abusive circumstances.

Genes have less to say about behavior than experience.

Still ignorant of twin studies, I see.

Or studies of criminals and mental illness/brain damage etc.

 

[untermensche]

In what culture are you talking about this human behavior?

Because human behavior is dependent on culture and experience.

Only a fool would deny it.

Yes, cultural experience does affect behavior. We are arguing the underlying behaviors though. Of course if a human is living by himself with no other humans there is no culture, and they won't steal.

There are no underlying behaviors.

There are only behaviors seen in some circumstances and not seen in different circumstances.

 

[fast]

In what culture are you talking about this human behavior?

Because human behavior is dependent on culture and experience.

Only a fool would deny it.

Yes, cultural experience does affect behavior. We are arguing the underlying behaviors though. Of course if a human is living by himself with no other humans there is no culture, and they won't steal.

Give the human time.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Yes, cultural experience does affect behavior. We are arguing the underlying behaviors though. Of course if a human is living by himself with no other humans there is no culture, and they won't steal.

There are no underlying behaviors.

There are only behaviors seen in some circumstances and not seen in different circumstances.

Not true. Both have an influence on behaviors. There is an underlying sexual drive that people have, but culture will influence things about that drive.

 

[Trausti]

Yes, cultural experience does affect behavior. We are arguing the underlying behaviors though. Of course if a human is living by himself with no other humans there is no culture, and they won't steal.

There are no underlying behaviors.

There are only behaviors seen in some circumstances and not seen in different circumstances.

Behavior is an expression of genes. It doesn't come out of the air.

 

[untermensche]

There are no underlying behaviors.

There are only behaviors seen in some circumstances and not seen in different circumstances.

Not true. Both have an influence on behaviors. There is an underlying sexual drive that people have, but culture will influence things about that drive.

Yes true. Yes absolutely true.

And you provide the evidence.

There is no behavior specified in the genes.

And the sexual desire is the perfect example.

What people derive sexual pleasure from has nothing to do with the genes. This arises from experience.

 

[untermensche]

There are no underlying behaviors.

There are only behaviors seen in some circumstances and not seen in different circumstances.

Behavior is an expression of genes. It doesn't come out of the air.

Human capacities arise from the genes, not specific behaviors.

Humans do not build the same nests or dance the same dances.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Not true. Both have an influence on behaviors. There is an underlying sexual drive that people have, but culture will influence things about that drive.

Yes true. Yes absolutely true.

And you provide the evidence.

There is no behavior specified in the genes.

And the sexual desire is the perfect example.

What people derive sexual pleasure from has nothing to do with the genes. This arises from experience.

So if the culture didn't tell people to go out and have sex people wouldn't have sex? Do you really believe this?

 

[untermensche]

Yes true. Yes absolutely true.

And you provide the evidence.

There is no behavior specified in the genes.

And the sexual desire is the perfect example.

What people derive sexual pleasure from has nothing to do with the genes. This arises from experience.

So if the culture didn't tell people to go out and have sex people wouldn't have sex? Do you really believe this?

This is about as poor a conclusion as can be made.

There is the sex drive, but specific behaviors that lead to sex are culturally based and experientially based, not genetically based.

Is courting the same today in the US as it was in the 1950's?

 

[coloradoatheist]

So if the culture didn't tell people to go out and have sex people wouldn't have sex? Do you really believe this?

This is about as poor a conclusion as can be made.

There is the sex drive, but specific behaviors that lead to sex are culturally based and experientially based, not genetically based.

Is courting the same today in the US as it was in the 1950's?

Except the drive to have sex and a family are the underlying drive, things change on the outside on that behavior. I said both influence each other.

 

[Trausti]

Behavior is an expression of genes. It doesn't come out of the air.

Human capacities arise from the genes, not specific behaviors.

Humans do not build the same nests or dance the same dances.

http://www.gwern.net/docs/genetics/2016-plomin.pdf

 

[untermensche]

Human capacities arise from the genes, not specific behaviors.

Humans do not build the same nests or dance the same dances.

http://www.gwern.net/docs/genetics/2016-plomin.pdf

It's called ending engagement and flooding with nonsense.

Make an argument.

That isn't one.

I can make genetic correlations to anything, since there are so many genes.

Make them to the scores in football games.

And none of them mean anything.

What has meaning is finding a gene and showing what it does.

What gene controls what behavior? Please be specific.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Self check out theft goes rampant.

When electronic self checkouts were first introduced, I didn't like the idea. Even today, when I use one, at least half the time, a human had to come resolve some problem with the machine. Once, a cashier had to push a button to indicate I was over age 18, because I wanted to buy a can of spray paint. Apparently people under 18 were using paint fumes to get high. The problem must have peaked and gone away, because I have a cabinet filled with about 200 cans of spray paint, but checked only once.

It turns out, there are ways to cheat the electronic check out. The machine knows only two things, barcode and weight. The most common scam is to find a cheap item that weighs the same as an expensive item. Most packages in the grocery store conveniently list the weight on the label. Scan the cheap one, put the expensive one in the bag and leave the other behind.

What's this got to do with the laws of economics, you ask?

It's one of those obvious things that are easily overlooked. It may appear that a cashier's job is to ring up sales and take the money, and that's true to an extent. It's not why cashiers are hired. A cashier's real job is to insure the customer pays the correct amount for the purchase. That is the job. The rest is just decoration.

Electronic checkouts were installed because they cost less than a human to operate, but that's only because no one thought about what a cashier's true job actually is. While they save the money on cashiers, they spend more money on shrinkage and security.

Watch out for the cameras, store detectives and watch the customers. I was once a grocery shop manager. These things go on but I was able to catch quite a few thieves like this and some staff. However when I did manage shops we didn't have electronic self check outs but in collusion with staff (sometimes a relative) some items got missed by the cashier and put into the bag.
I'm sure this is a problem and happens every day. It's up the shops to monitor this.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.gwern.net/docs/genetics/2016-plomin.pdf

It's called ending engagement and flooding with nonsense.

Make an argument.

That isn't one.

I can make genetic correlations to anything, since there are so many genes.

Make them to the scores in football games.

And none of them mean anything.

What has meaning is finding a gene and showing what it does.

What gene controls what behavior? Please be specific.

No actual gene is known gene to control behaviour.

 

[untermensche]

This is about as poor a conclusion as can be made.

There is the sex drive, but specific behaviors that lead to sex are culturally based and experientially based, not genetically based.

Is courting the same today in the US as it was in the 1950's?

Except the drive to have sex and a family are the underlying drive, things change on the outside on that behavior. I said both influence each other.

Drives are not behaviors.

Drives don't change but behaviors vary depending on circumstances.

 

[untermensche]

No actual gene is known gene to control behaviour.

Of course not because behavior is not under genetic control.

Capacities arise due to genetic expression.

Behaviors arise when those capacities come in contact with the world.

But this is the human.

In birds for instance many behaviors are programmed into the genes, from nest building to ritualistic mating practices.

But humans are not birds.

 

[coloradoatheist]

One quintessential question

Is just having thoughts genetic? Is there one gene that allows us to have thoughts?

 

[untermensche]

One quintessential question

Is just having thoughts genetic? Is there one gene that allows us to have thoughts?

Genes create the capacity to have thoughts.

But thoughts can be controlled and organized over time.

But organized based on experience in the world which the genes can't possibly know about since they arose in a completely different world from the artificial man-made modern world.

 

[coloradoatheist]

One quintessential question

Is just having thoughts genetic? Is there one gene that allows us to have thoughts?

Genes create the capacity to have thoughts.

But thoughts can be controlled and organized over time.

But organized based on experience in the world which the genes can't possibly know about since they arose in a completely different world from the artificial man-made modern world.

Why on the last part? We accept that the environment allows for other mutations to be selected for, why not a selection for Intelligence?