Needed: Counterpart to 'Woke'

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Trump betas

 

[Bomb#20]

He aint’ woke, he’s MAGA.

This ^^^^.

MAGA stands for make America Great Again. What is so wrong with that?

Woke stands for not being asleep at the wheel. What is so wrong with that? It's not that there's anything wrong with the respective properties; the problems are the implicit trumped-up accusation that the respective outgroups lack them and the implicit self-congratulatory claim that the respective ingroups have a monopoly on them. You can't be that smug and not get ridiculed for it. Thank god the movement to get atheists to call ourselves "Brights" never caught on.

 

[Bomb#20]

The left-wingers came up with "woke". (Okay, they culturally appropriated it, but let's not quibble.)

No, let's quibble. There's absolutely nothing original about woke.

White people using it for themselves was a little bit original.

 

[Derec]

Ideologyhunter, I feel like you don't understand this word. "Woke" has an air of sarcasm coming from regressive politicians because it IS sarcastic.

Not just regressives, but anybody who is opposed to the excesses of fauxgressivism.
Although I will give you the point that "woke" in the disparaging sense has been overused by the regressives like RdS.

"Woke", "Liberal", "Feminist", "Social Justice", and "Politically Correct" (etc.) are all a slurs reserved for their political enemies, not because they are cleverly insulting, but because their tribe has designated these concepts as the "other" and therefore vile.

All of these terms have been coined by "their political enemies" in some way or another. Of these, feminism is most neutral as a term, although radical feminism is a vile doctrine that should be opposed.
Take "political correctness". It was first used by the Bolsheviks in Russia to describe strict adherence to the Party line.
"Social justice" has been used by the left for an approach to "justice" that emphasizes the collective at the expense of the individual.
The word "Liberal" has been coopted by the Left and now (in the US at least) means something very different than the original meaning which focused on individualism and personal liberty (hence the name). Now it is used for people/policies that are decidedly illiberal.

American "conservatives" adopted "Woke" as a slur not because it is clever or nasty, but because they needed to defuse it's power at highlighting the deficiencies of their own ideologies.

No, it was first adopted as a "slur" because for one it is just a ridiculous sounding word and second, it was used in earnest by people with ridiculous positions that were ripe for ridicule.

'Woke' is a word describing a personal state of heightened social and political consciousness or awareness. It has a history dating back to the 1930's in African American culture in the US. It was from it's beginning delineating a distinction between people who are aware of the mechanisms and extent of social and political oppression for minorities in society and those who aren't. Those who aren't "woke" are asleep, ignorant, and therefore vulnerable and weak.

I would say that it describe a false sense of "social and political consciousness or awareness". It's like Anton's Blindness in a sense - those people think they can see, but are blind.
The word "woke" entered the mainstream lexicon with the Ferguson riots. I offer this peace, published by the radfem Jezebel, as a type specimen.
In the Aftermath of Ferguson, Stay Angry and Stay Woke

I recommend not retreating from "woke" or even finding a new word to retaliate with. If you want a derisive word that describes fools who deliberately ignore reality to revel in their sleepy ignorance then use "woke" as it was intended.

It is the wokesters that think themselves awake while still asleep.
I'd rather be awake than "woke"!

 

[Bomb#20]

Plus it is woke to be anti-fascist, but I guess if you're anti-woke you're pro-fascist then.

And it is woke to be anti-racist and anti-misogynist, so I guess you're pro both of those too if you're anti-woke.

In other news, God is Love, so if you're pro-atheism you're anti-love.

Plus, Putin is anti-Nazi, so I guess if you're anti-Putin you're pro-Nazi then.

Already mentioned how it's woke to be anti-fascist. So... no.

By the way, Putin is against anti-fascists in case it wasn't completely obvious.

Regarding yourself as anti-X does not make people who oppose you pro-X. People can describe themselves any way they please, but it doesn't imply anything about reality, only about their often-blinkered self-perception. An awful lot of woke people who think of themselves as anti-fascist, anti-racist and anti-misogynist are themselves fascist and/or racist and/or misogynist -- they simply restrict their anti-fascism, anti-racism and anti-misogyny to subsets of fasces, races, and women, while giving a pass to the right fascists, the right racists and the right misogynists. Outgroups are like children -- it's different when they're yours.

Have you heard Tim Minchin's "Pope Song"? The theme was that Pope Ratzinger protected pedophile priests, and if you cover for a rapist then you're as evil as the rapist. Fair enough. Well, western Europe's governments are heavily staffed by wokish officials who no doubt regard themselves as anti-fascist, anti-racist and anti-misogynist and who have been systematically covering for misogynistic sexual harassers, violent abusers, and rapists. They call the genuinely anti-misogynist people who try to do something about it "Islamophobic", and ignore, deny or minimize both the staggering overall increase in violence against women that has resulted from mass migration, as well as individual cases brought to their attention. They do this because it is woke to be anti-racist and any acknowledgement that Islam promotes misogyny has been defined to be racist by the woke movement. They're as evil as the rapists they cover for, as evil as Pope Ratzinger, as evil as the child molesters he protected. Woke ideology trained them to be that evil. Anti-misogynists get to be anti-woke, because woke ideology trains people to be evil. Woke people who infer that anti-woke people must be pro-misogyny because it is woke to be anti-misogynist are imbeciles.

 

[Derec]

Bill, above, appears to be very woke about woke.

He is awake. There's a difference.
For an example of peak "woke", see the Jezebel article I posted above.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Plus it is woke to be anti-fascist, but I guess if you're anti-woke you're pro-fascist then.

And it is woke to be anti-racist and anti-misogynist, so I guess you're pro both of those too if you're anti-woke.

In other news, God is Love, so if you're pro-atheism you're anti-love.

Plus, Putin is anti-Nazi, so I guess if you're anti-Putin you're pro-Nazi then.

Already mentioned how it's woke to be anti-fascist. So... no.

By the way, Putin is against anti-fascists in case it wasn't completely obvious.

Regarding yourself as anti-X does not make people who oppose you pro-X.

Yes it does. If someone opposes anti-fascism, they are a fascist by definition. Now go fuck yourself, as you clearly don't understand logic at all.

 

[Derec]

Also...THEY came up with MAGA. They don't get to choose their slang identifier.

And the woke came up with "woke". It's not a word made up by Bill Maher.

 

[Derec]

Yes it does. If someone opposes anti-fascism, they are a fascist by definition. Now go fuck yourself, as you clearly don't understand logic at all.

It's not about logic, but about how words are used. Communists, in particular, used "anti-fascist" to refer to themselves, which implied everybody opposed to them was "fascist". Antifa started as "Antifaschistische Aktion", the paramilitary arm of the German Communist Party in the early 30s. Modern Antifa still uses the same logo.
And the Berlin Wall was called "antifaschistischer Schutzwall" (antifascist protection rampart) in East Germany.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Anyway if you're looking at the current state of the world and your reaction is "but those woke people!", no, actually you're the imbecile.

 

[ZiprHead]

No, it was first adopted as a "slur" because for one it is just a ridiculous sounding word and second, it was used in earnest by people with ridiculous positions that were ripe for ridicule.

Where the hell did you come up with that?

Woke, the African-American English synonym for the General American English word awake, has since the 1930s or earlier been used to refer to awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans, often in the construction stay woke.

 

[Derec]

Anyway if you're looking at the current state of the world and your reaction is "but those woke people!", no, actually you're the imbecile.

Without the "woke" riots that started in 2014, but which were still going strong in 2016, I think that Hillary would have pulled off a victory.
No "woke" people "burning this bitch down" in Missouri and elsewhere, no Trump presidency either.

 

[Derec]

Where the hell did you come up with that?

The word "woke" was used in earnest by #BLM activists who were burning down Ferguson in the aftermath of Michael Brown getting himself killed. The position that police are in the wrong for defending themselves from robbers who attack them is ridiculous, as is any effort to justify subsequent rioting.

 

[bilby]

“Nazi.” Four letters on the dot.

Well, without the dot it would be "Nazl", which is less tittle-ating.

 

[bilby]

Doze, as in, “That Nazi ain’t woke, he’s doze.”

As in "Doze Nazis are eejits".

 

[Bomb#20]

Regarding yourself as anti-X does not make people who oppose you pro-X.

Yes it does. If someone opposes anti-fascism, they are a fascist by definition. <expletive deleted>, as you clearly don't understand logic at all.

You owe me a new irony meter. You are the logically challenged one. Putin regards himself as anti-Nazi. That does not make the Ukrainians Nazis.

As far as opposing anti-fascism goes, "fascism" means "strength through unity". That's what the fasces symbol is all about -- it's a metaphorical reference to how easy it is to break a stick and how hard it is to break a bundle of sticks. It's a glorification of collectivism. Individualists are anti-fascism. Collectivists are pro-fascism. The collectivists who think they're anti-fascist think so because they are against some particular bundle of sticks, but they're in favor of some other competing bundle of sticks. Woke people may in some cases be individualists, but most of them are collectivists of one sort or another.

 

[Elixir]

If someone opposes anti-fascism, they are a fascist by definition.

Definitions don't make them a fascist. For instance, some people are philosophically or religiously opposed to politics, period.
You can say that such people are aiding and abetting fascists with their pacifism, make them fascist by definition. But that doesn't alter their philosophical/religious opposition to fascism.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

If someone opposes anti-fascism, they are a fascist by definition.

Definitions don't make them a fascist. For instance, some people are philosophically or religiously opposed to politics, period.
You can say that such people are aiding and abetting fascists with their pacifism, make them fascist by definition. But that doesn't alter their philosophical/religious opposition to fascism.

Ok fair point. But I'll revise it to they're helping fascists.

 

[Elixir]

If someone opposes anti-fascism, they are a fascist by definition.

Definitions don't make them a fascist. For instance, some people are philosophically or religiously opposed to politics, period.
You can say that such people are aiding and abetting fascists with their pacifism, make them fascist by definition. But that doesn't alter their philosophical/religious opposition to fascism.

Ok fair point. But I'll revise it to they're helping fascists.

Fascists will kill ‘em if they can catch ‘em, because they’re helping the opposition.
Poor fuckers can’t win!

 

[Tigers!]

Jann (with apologies to TSwiz)