Netanyahu has lost his fucking mind

[untermensche]

Supposing Israel agreed to compensate Palestinians instead of allowing them back. What do you think the PA and Hamas would do with that money?

Why does Israel get to decide?

This is something that should be arbitrated and the best solution is for Israel to just make room for the relatives of the people it illegally evicted and deal with the consequences of it's crimes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's quite weasely--he's pretending it's something that can be negotiated but actually saying it isn't.

Implementation of the right of return IS negotiable. That Palestinians HAVE that right is not.

No one--which means the Palestinian Authority. In other words, it's impossible for the Palestinian Authority to negotiate anything that gives an inch on the right of return.

No. Simply put: it's impossible for the Palestinian Authority to agree to any settlement that doesn't recognize that right. HOW that right is fulfilled is subject to negotiation; that the right exists is not.

But you actually just showed that they can't negotiate it!

Of course they can. Abbas refers to this directly when he says "details need to be worked out." That's what's being negotiated: the details on "how."

The Right of Return is a right the Palestinians will not waive under any circumstances. That is NOT up for negotiation. But they're willing to accept various forms of compensation for that right. It's kind of like how the right to keep and bear arms in the Second Amendment does not automatically include anti-aircraft missiles and chemical weapons; "arms" is defined sufficiently loosely that the government can and does restrict MANY forms of weapons from private ownership.

But the government can't negotiate that compensation. It's not possible for Israel to negotiate with every individual Palestinian. Thus it's a showstopper.

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Supposing Israel agreed to compensate Palestinians instead of allowing them back. What do you think the PA and Hamas would do with that money?

The Palestinian Authority would distribute it to the refugees and their most immediate descendants.

Hamas would distribute it to those refugees currently on their payroll or affiliated with the party and then ever-so-slowly let the rest of the cash trickle out to the general population and then blame Israel for the delay.

Hamas already seizes aid meant for the people in Gaza. Why in the world do you think they wouldn't seize this, also???

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Yea, right, just like they distribute Western aid to the refugees now!

Yes. They do. STARTING with those refugees that just happen to be on their payroll and/or closely affiliated with the party. The rest being ever-so-slowly distributed to the rest of the population, with any delays generally being blamed on Israel.

Did you think I was kidding?

Starting and ending with those on their payroll.

In practice all aid to Gaza goes to encourage terrorism.

 

[angelo]

Supposing Israel agreed to compensate Palestinians instead of allowing them back. What do you think the PA and Hamas would do with that money?

Why does Israel get to decide?

This is something that should be arbitrated and the best solution is for Israel to just make room for the relatives of the people it illegally evicted and deal with the consequences of it's crimes.

Why not just exterminate all the Jews and get it over and done with!

 

[untermensche]

Why does Israel get to decide?

This is something that should be arbitrated and the best solution is for Israel to just make room for the relatives of the people it illegally evicted and deal with the consequences of it's crimes.

Why not just exterminate all the Jews and get it over and done with!

How does making Israel pay for it's crimes amount to extermination?

I know the constant crimes and theft have created animosity but if Israel were to do the right thing and allow people to return to what was the homeland of their near relatives in a generation that animosity would dissipate.

But for that to happen the crimes and theft has to stop.

 

[bilby]

Why does Israel get to decide?

This is something that should be arbitrated and the best solution is for Israel to just make room for the relatives of the people it illegally evicted and deal with the consequences of it's crimes.

Why not just exterminate all the Jews and get it over and done with!

Zionist extremists love this false dichotomy. You can either give the extreme zionists everything they demand on a silver platter; OR you are effectively calling for all Jews to be exterminated. There are NO other possibilities.

Well, here's a newsflash - even many Jews; indeed, even many Israeli Jews - don't support the extreme zionists; nor do they support Netenyahu, and nor do they support Likud.

Netenyahu not getting everything he wants is not the same thing as the Final Solution. There are a HUGE number of possible situations whereby the Government of Israel, and/or Netenyahu, don't get things exactly their way, without a single Jew (much less all of them - and remember, more Jews live in New York than live in Israel) dying as a result.

Having had genocide attempted against your people 70 years ago does not give you a blank cheque to commit any atrocity you like for the rest of time, any more than having a book that says God promised you a piece of land gives you the right to simply take it from it's inhabitants.

There are no God given rights; there is no God given land; there are no Gods.

If allowing everyone who used to live in your country to return as full citizens, with the right to vote, will lead to a government you don't like much, well, that's democracy for you. The majority get to pick the government. The minority don't get to throw the majority out, deny them the right to return, and then declare their government to be democratic and legitimate - it doesn't work that way.

 

[Ford]

Having had genocide attempted against your people 70 years ago does not give you a blank cheque to commit any atrocity you like for the rest of time, any more than having a book that says God promised you a piece of land gives you the right to simply take it from it's inhabitants.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

But the government can't negotiate that compensation.

THEY seem to believe that they can, which is why they have been asking to do exactly that for twenty years now.

It's not possible for Israel to negotiate with every individual Palestinian.

Yes it is. They're called "courts." And for all intents and purposes the Right of Return is effectively a class action lawsuit by the dispossessed against the government that originally drove them from their homes.

Hamas already seizes aid meant for the people in Gaza.

Yes. And they distribute it first and foremost to their employees while letting the rest trickle out to locals. And yes, they would do the same thing with a blanket compensation fund too.

Good thing nobody is proposing that Israel set up a mass reparations fund for the Palestinians to manage and distribute collectively (and I don't mean that sarcastically; that would be a HORRIBLE idea).

Starting and ending with those on their payroll.

You forget that Hamas runs a lot of social services, medical programs, charities and public works projects. A fair amount of the reparations money would be dolled out in that form as well. They would, of course, keep VERY tight control of that money, how it's spent, who is in charge of spending, and who is/isn't allowed to get kickbacks for that spending, while again blaming their tight-fisted approach on Israeli meddling or whatever.

Nobody would claim they will hand out the money to everyone in giftwrapped envelopes labeled "Happy New Eid!" But they do too much in Gaza to expect they wouldn't use SOME of it (a quarter of it or less) for the community. Meanwhile, handing out reparation checks to the widows and sons and daughters of highly prominent martyrs is very good for public relations...

 

[Will Wiley]

Why does Israel get to decide?

This is something that should be arbitrated and the best solution is for Israel to just make room for the relatives of the people it illegally evicted and deal with the consequences of it's crimes.

Why not just exterminate all the Jews and get it over and done with!

Maybe we should take the guns off the cowards in Israel and give them to the Palestinians and see how the cowards in Israel like it?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Why does Israel get to decide?

This is something that should be arbitrated and the best solution is for Israel to just make room for the relatives of the people it illegally evicted and deal with the consequences of it's crimes.

Why not just exterminate all the Jews and get it over and done with!

Why...

... are we still feeding this troll?

 

[iolo]

Why does Israel get to decide?

This is something that should be arbitrated and the best solution is for Israel to just make room for the relatives of the people it illegally evicted and deal with the consequences of it's crimes.

Why not just exterminate all the Jews and get it over and done with!

How would you do that, when the US is paying the Nazis to exterminate the Palestinians? The usual Goebbels-bullshit, learned from your Great Model!.

 

[Jokodo]

Why does Israel get to decide?

This is something that should be arbitrated and the best solution is for Israel to just make room for the relatives of the people it illegally evicted and deal with the consequences of it's crimes.

Why not just exterminate all the Jews and get it over and done with!

This may be hard to understand for some, but "exterminate all Arabs" and "exterminate all Jews" are not the only two possible positions to take.

Therefore, if someone's against exterminating all Arabs, it does not follow that they want to exterminate all Jews.

 

[Malintent]

There was a movie that entirely took place in a conference room where Nazi leaders directly under Hitler met to discuss the 'problem' of the Jews. I forget the name of the movie. In it, it implied that the Nazi's were addressing an immigration problem, and discussed options for deportation.. failing that, reproductive sterilization... failing that, the 'final solution' (maybe that was the name of the movie?), extermination.
A clear implication in the movie was that Hitler did not order any specific action be taken.. it was his Officers that came up with that 'final solution', and Hitler had nothing to do with the decision.

I'm just reporting what I saw in some movie that was not presented as fiction. I have no knowledge or opinion of the facts or validity of those implications.

 

[Sarpedon]

That was the excellent movie "Conspiracy," With Kenneth Branaugh playing Reinhardt "the Hangman" Heydrich, and Stanley Tucci as Adolf Eichmann.

I disagree with your conclusions. The movie made it quite clear that the meeting was a formality, intended to endorse a decision already made. Heydrich presented the idea and fended off the counter arguments made rather half heartedly by the more moderate attendees. While it was not presented as 'Hitler's plan,' but Heydrich's it is absolutely clear that authorization came from above, and above Heydrich there were only Himmler and Hitler.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why not just exterminate all the Jews and get it over and done with!

How does making Israel pay for it's crimes amount to extermination?

I know the constant crimes and theft have created animosity but if Israel were to do the right thing and allow people to return to what was the homeland of their near relatives in a generation that animosity would dissipate.

But for that to happen the crimes and theft has to stop.

The payment you are asking for is extermination.

 

[angelo]

Why not just exterminate all the Jews and get it over and done with!

This may be hard to understand for some, but "exterminate all Arabs" and "exterminate all Jews" are not the only two possible positions to take.

Therefore, if someone's against exterminating all Arabs, it does not follow that they want to exterminate all Jews.

The Arabs want nothing else than the whole land from the Jordan to the sea. Nothing else will placate them. Except if the Jews were to agree to be subservient to Islam. If that were to happen, the Arabs would then start fighting amongst themselves as they do in most other Islamic countries. In that case the country would then revert to a backward place, the same as the neighboring Islamic countries.

 

[untermensche]

How does making Israel pay for it's crimes amount to extermination?

I know the constant crimes and theft have created animosity but if Israel were to do the right thing and allow people to return to what was the homeland of their near relatives in a generation that animosity would dissipate.

But for that to happen the crimes and theft has to stop.

The payment you are asking for is extermination.

Only in the bazaaro world of Israeli apologetics.

 

[iolo]

This may be hard to understand for some, but "exterminate all Arabs" and "exterminate all Jews" are not the only two possible positions to take.

Therefore, if someone's against exterminating all Arabs, it does not follow that they want to exterminate all Jews.

The Arabs want nothing else than the whole land from the Jordan to the sea. Nothing else will placate them. Except if the Jews were to agree to be subservient to Islam. If that were to happen, the Arabs would then start fighting amongst themselves as they do in most other Islamic countries. In that case the country would then revert to a backward place, the same as the neighboring Islamic countries.

Obviously, just like the Europeans, the Palestinians want their country back from the Nazis, though no doubt a non-racist state could be evolved through negotiation. There are no Jews in 'Israel', as you know - only Nazis and their victims - but we must hope that some will reform. Why it should revert to anything other than decency only Nazis know.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The payment you are asking for is extermination.

Only in the bazaaro world of Israeli apologetics.

You want them to go back to being subservient to the Muslims--but going back to the status quo ante isn't an option. Slave rebellions can't just be reset like that.

 

[arkirk]

Only in the bazaaro world of Israeli apologetics.

You want them to go back to being subservient to the Muslims--but going back to the status quo ante isn't an option. Slave rebellions can't just be reset like that.

Loren: How did you get this way? We live in America where we have Muslims and Jews and Christians....and a few atheists. Your continual expression of hatred for Arabs and succor for the Israelis really makes no sense. If we can live in this country without needing to kill each other, they can do it there. What we are doing is funding a condition that periodically leads to slaughters of Arabs in Israel and you know it. Two more billion dollars (that Netanyahu begged from our Israeli Lobby Lackey president will not improve living conditions for anybody in Israel and will fund increased killing of Arabs) will come out of needed social expenditures in the U.S. Still you feel no outrage at being used to sponsor Apartheid. You are a vexing creature indeed.

 

[angelo]

You want them to go back to being subservient to the Muslims--but going back to the status quo ante isn't an option. Slave rebellions can't just be reset like that.

Loren: How did you get this way? We live in America where we have Muslims and Jews and Christians....and a few atheists. Your continual expression of hatred for Arabs and succor for the Israelis really makes no sense. If we can live in this country without needing to kill each other, they can do it there. What we are doing is funding a condition that periodically leads to slaughters of Arabs in Israel and you know it. Two more billion dollars (that Netanyahu begged from our Israeli Lobby Lackey president will not improve living conditions for anybody in Israel and will fund increased killing of Arabs) will come out of needed social expenditures in the U.S. Still you feel no outrage at being used to sponsor Apartheid. You are a vexing creature indeed.

There wouldn't be a single Arab death if it wasn't for the fact that it's the Arabs who do all of the terrorist attacks.
For the 100th time. Every nation on earth has the sovereign right to defend its citizens.