New report on climate change released today

[angelo]

Mentioning Al Gore who in reality has as much credibility in. Climate matters as Uri Geller ever had as a psychic shows you've been hoodwinked by the climate shysters. Arguing with a fanatic is just a waste of time. Or as useless as arguing with a cultists! But I'll add this anyway.........

https://reneweconomy.com.au/coming-...y-pioneers-fare-in-the-free-market-83134/amp/

This shows the alternatives are merely wishful thinking.

 

[DBT]

The issue is about science and evidence, not personality or who said what.

 

[angelo]

The issue is about science and evidence, not personality or who said what.

I'm glad you mentioned evidence! I'm sick and tired of asking for credible scientific evidence of the looming doomsday!

 

[angelo]

Speaking of science........look at this simple systems diagram of the atmosphere. It illustrates how complex it is and therefore how difficult to reduce to a computer model. Despite this, those pushing human caused global warming have focused exclusively on the fractionally small part CO2, a part of the segment labelled Atmospheric composition. It also illustrates the complexity of climate.

https://history.aip.org/history/exhibits/climate/images/wiring-74.gif

 

[Shadowy Man]

An expert takes just 3 minutes to expose the GW/CC/CD for the cult that it's become.

https://youtu.be/mbcHVrdcujQ

I stopped watching once the arguments from incredulity started. Maybe I’ll get a chance to finish it later.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Speaking of science........look at this simple systems diagram of the atmosphere. It illustrates how complex it is and therefore how difficult to reduce to a computer model. Despite this, those pushing human caused global warming have focused exclusively on the fractionally small part CO2, a part of the segment labelled Atmospheric composition. It also illustrates the complexity of climate.

https://history.aip.org/history/exhibits/climate/images/wiring-74.gif

It is indeed far more complex than your argument against it.

 

[PyramidHead]

Speaking of science........look at this simple systems diagram of the atmosphere. It illustrates how complex it is and therefore how difficult to reduce to a computer model. Despite this, those pushing human caused global warming have focused exclusively on the fractionally small part CO2, a part of the segment labelled Atmospheric composition. It also illustrates the complexity of climate.

https://history.aip.org/history/exhibits/climate/images/wiring-74.gif

It is indeed far more complex than your argument against it.

What I love about this is how any reasonable person should look at that diagram and say "wow, the system looks really complicated, I guess it would make sense if a small increase in one of those inputs caused a problem, like leaving a trickling hose in a swimming pool would overflow it given enough time", but instead his reaction is "there are so many words and arrows here, how could anybody possibly understand so many words and arrows, therefore there is no reason for caution or alarm, look at all the words and arrows"

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Okay, here is a diagram.

Someone explain to me how your sodium levels dropping from 135 to 145 mEq/L to 125 mEq/L would cause your body problems? The body is an extraordinarily complicated system.

 

[SimpleDon]

Just tidying up some points that I think hadn't been addressed in the discussion.

...
Look at Carbon 0.04%? If you think that minute trace element would possibly make any difference to world climate, then you must also believe homeopathic remedies work as well!

Ah, the theory of "something that minute can't hurt you," STMCHY. If 0.04% of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere isn't enough to hurt I assume that you would have no problem in an atmosphere of 0.004% hydrogen cyanide would you? After all, it's 1/10 the amount of carbon dioxide you believe is too minute to cause harm.

And carbon dioxide is a natural substance, a plant food, some others have pointed out. They aren't submariners or miners either. If they were they would know that an atmosphere of the minute amount of 1%* carbon dioxide is fatal to humans as well as other vertebrates. Submariners trapped in a submarine or miners trapped in a mine tunnel aren't at risk of dying from the lack of oxygen, they will die from carbon dioxide poisoning long before the oxygen would run out.

I would like to compare your STMCHY theory to the case of viruses and bacteria in the human body but at some point, you have to start questioning your beliefs in light of how many times your points, like this one, have been shot down.

By the way, I would never let you sit in a room that has 40 ppm of hydrogen cyanide, which is the upper range of what is fatal for humans, the concentration which is fatal for all. Some will die in an atmosphere of 20 ppm.

* to 14%, depending on how long you are exposed to it, how the carbon dioxide is dispersed, and your physical condition. ​

 

[PyramidHead]

Stop arguing with angelo, it's a waste of time

Let's talk about the international problem. No response to the climate crisis that the United States does solely within its borders is going to be compatible with a livable future. Thus any plan of action needs to include a strong role for the US in aiding the transition to renewable energy elsewhere in the world, not just by dropping cheap solar panels onto them but by heavily subsidizing their development of sustainable technologies. Other countries aren't going to simply follow America's lead without any incentive to do so, and America is among the countries that have been polluting the planet for the longest time so it should bear a larger responsibility than those that just ramped up their industrial production a few decades ago (like China). Implicit in all this is a massive scaling back of the military, which has to be initiated by the United States first and foremost.

 

[bilby]

Stop arguing with angelo, it's a waste of time

Let's talk about the international problem. No response to the climate crisis that the United States does solely within its borders is going to be compatible with a livable future. Thus any plan of action needs to include a strong role for the US in aiding the transition to renewable energy elsewhere in the world, not just by dropping cheap solar panels onto them but by heavily subsidizing their development of sustainable technologies. Other countries aren't going to simply follow America's lead without any incentive to do so, and America is among the countries that have been polluting the planet for the longest time so it should bear a larger responsibility than those that just ramped up their industrial production a few decades ago (like China). Implicit in all this is a massive scaling back of the military, which has to be initiated by the United States first and foremost.

I agree, but you misspelled 'nuclear power'.

Intermittent renewables cannot solve the problem, without causing a massive environmental disaster of their own, or destroying the developed world technologies essential to support billions above the level of abject misery.

Wind and solar are an upper-middle class non-solution whose only benefit is to make wealthy people feel less bad about themselves. Real solutions require high energy densities. It's time to get serious; It's time to nuke climate change.

 

[George S]

Stop arguing with angelo, it's a waste of time

Let's talk about the international problem. No response to the climate crisis that the United States does solely within its borders is going to be compatible with a livable future. Thus any plan of action needs to include a strong role for the US in aiding the transition to renewable energy elsewhere in the world, not just by dropping cheap solar panels onto them but by heavily subsidizing their development of sustainable technologies. Other countries aren't going to simply follow America's lead without any incentive to do so, and America is among the countries that have been polluting the planet for the longest time so it should bear a larger responsibility than those that just ramped up their industrial production a few decades ago (like China). Implicit in all this is a massive scaling back of the military, which has to be initiated by the United States first and foremost.

I agree, but you misspelled 'nuclear power'.

Intermittent renewables cannot solve the problem, without causing a massive environmental disaster of their own, or destroying the developed world technologies essential to support billions above the level of abject misery.

Wind and solar are an upper-middle class non-solution whose only benefit is to make wealthy people feel less bad about themselves. Real solutions require high energy densities. It's time to get serious; It's time to nuke climate change.

And, of course, the beautiful part of Gen IV Nuke plants is they are (1) safe from meltdown, (2) [some] use Gen 2,3 as fuel, and (3) is non polluting [as well as no CO2 emissions]. And, suppose you are thinking the Earth is cooling. Nuclear works then, too. Win-win.

 

[PyramidHead]

Stop arguing with angelo, it's a waste of time

Let's talk about the international problem. No response to the climate crisis that the United States does solely within its borders is going to be compatible with a livable future. Thus any plan of action needs to include a strong role for the US in aiding the transition to renewable energy elsewhere in the world, not just by dropping cheap solar panels onto them but by heavily subsidizing their development of sustainable technologies. Other countries aren't going to simply follow America's lead without any incentive to do so, and America is among the countries that have been polluting the planet for the longest time so it should bear a larger responsibility than those that just ramped up their industrial production a few decades ago (like China). Implicit in all this is a massive scaling back of the military, which has to be initiated by the United States first and foremost.

I agree, but you misspelled 'nuclear power'.

Intermittent renewables cannot solve the problem, without causing a massive environmental disaster of their own, or destroying the developed world technologies essential to support billions above the level of abject misery.

Wind and solar are an upper-middle class non-solution whose only benefit is to make wealthy people feel less bad about themselves. Real solutions require high energy densities. It's time to get serious; It's time to nuke climate change.

And, of course, the beautiful part of Gen IV Nuke plants is they are (1) safe from meltdown, (2) [some] use Gen 2,3 as fuel, and (3) is non polluting [as well as no CO2 emissions]. And, suppose you are thinking the Earth is cooling. Nuclear works then, too. Win-win.

Honestly I was almost on board with bilby's idea until you endorsed it, but now I'm gonna have to pass

 

[DBT]

The issue is about science and evidence, not personality or who said what.

I'm glad you mentioned evidence! I'm sick and tired of asking for credible scientific evidence of the looming doomsday!

Who is saying 'doomsday' besides yourself? You are making up your own narrative and dismissing or ignoring the evidence.

 

[TSwizzle]

Who is saying 'doomsday' besides yourself?

Teh Gruaniad for a start, Extinction Rebellion, the weird Swedish kid, AOC and load of others.

You are making up your own narrative and dismissing or ignoring the evidence.

What evidence is there that actual man made climate change is/has actually occurred ?


Climate change is a Rapture like cult.

 

[starwater]

Who is saying 'doomsday' besides yourself?

Teh Gruaniad for a start, Extinction Rebellion, the weird Swedish kid, AOC and load of others.

You are making up your own narrative and dismissing or ignoring the evidence.

What evidence is there that actual man made climate change is/has actually occurred ?


Climate change is a Rapture like cult.

Ice cores that have atmospheric data for a 40, 000 year time frame for one.

 

[Elixir]

Teh Gruaniad for a start, Extinction Rebellion, the weird Swedish kid, AOC and load of others.



What evidence is there that actual man made climate change is/has actually occurred ?


Climate change is a Rapture like cult.

Ice cores that have atmospheric data for a 40, 000 year time frame for one.

Lake varves for another... predictions borne out for another... there's actually quite a large body of evidence, but -
Nothing can penetrate the invincible ignorance of the true climate change denial cultist.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Speaking of science........look at this simple systems diagram of the atmosphere. It illustrates how complex it is and therefore how difficult to reduce to a computer model. Despite this, those pushing human caused global warming have focused exclusively on the fractionally small part CO2, a part of the segment labelled Atmospheric composition. It also illustrates the complexity of climate.

https://history.aip.org/history/exhibits/climate/images/wiring-74.gif

Are you Einstein??

Because your argument is basically that if it's too complex for you it's impossible to do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Who is saying 'doomsday' besides yourself?

Teh Gruaniad for a start, Extinction Rebellion, the weird Swedish kid, AOC and load of others.

You are making up your own narrative and dismissing or ignoring the evidence.

What evidence is there that actual man made climate change is/has actually occurred ?


Climate change is a Rapture like cult.

Here's a simple example that things are warming up. Compare these two images:

https://africageographic.com/blog/elusive-eland-kilimanjaro/kilmanjaro-kibo-1980/

https://mazamas-kili2010.blogspot.com/

While the views are different it's the same mountain. Note how far up the mountain the snow line has moved.

 

[DBT]

Who is saying 'doomsday' besides yourself?

Teh Gruaniad for a start, Extinction Rebellion, the weird Swedish kid, AOC and load of others.

You are making up your own narrative and dismissing or ignoring the evidence.

What evidence is there that actual man made climate change is/has actually occurred ?


Climate change is a Rapture like cult.

Would the evidence be considered if it was presented?....which has already been done, only to be routinely rejected or ignored.