New report on climate change released today

[ZiprHead]

Yea, right, and now in the 19th-21st century all that has stopped and everything is purely human caused. Right, how stupid of me to not see that!

I once did a short stint as a consultant for a charitable org that specialised in trying to reform and get the right help for ex members of various cults like Scientology and religious cults. This GW/CC/CD cult makes all those cults look like harmless games kids once played. R. Hubbard must be spinning in his grave. If he had just a fraction of the resources this new cult has, his cult would have surpassed by far xtinaity and the death cult of islamism.

You're not addressing my point at all.

I did address your point! It's you who failed to point out that Earth is a dynamic ever evolving planet that wouldn't be recognizable if it was possible to hop on a time machine and go back to a time before the tectonic plates drifted apart.

You might actually have a point if you could show some time in the past where the climate changed this drastically this quickly. Without that, you've got squat.

 

[Elixir]

You might actually have a point if you could show some time in the past where the climate changed this drastically this quickly.

Yore fulla shit - it's been the same temperature here for the last three days!
[/ignorant denial]

 

[lpetrich]

BP CEO hits Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Bernie Sanders on Green New Deal

• Outgoing BP chief Bob Dudley, in a CNBC interview from Davos, Switzerland, criticized climate proposals from Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
• Sanders, a 2020 Democratic presidential candidate, tweeted a response: “What’s ‘unrealistic’ is thinking we will let fossil fuel companies continue to destroy the planet.”
• Dudley did not entirely shoot down the need for energy transition. But he stressed that the world “needs all forms of energy.”

...
“They have a completely unrealistic idea of the complexity of the global energy system,” Dudley told CNBC’s “Squawk Box” from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. “It’s very complex.”

CNBC on Twitter: "BP's CEO chides AOC and Bernie Sanders for their 'completely unrealistic' Green New Deal ideas https://t.co/v54zdbe3VZ" / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Right, because everyone knows the “realistic” thing to do is allow the CEO of The British Petroleum Company to dictate our carbon emissions policy. https://t.co/yeAd8wzNe8" / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

'Who is she?' - US Treasury chief takes swipe at Thunberg

When asked how that would affect the U.S. economic model, Mnuchin was swift and condescending to Thunberg, who sparked a global environmental movement after she shot to fame a year ago by staging a regular strike at her school.

“Is she the chief economist? Who is she? I’m confused,” he said. Then following a brief pause, he said it was “a joke.”

“After she goes and studies economics in college, she can come back and explain that to us,” he concluded.

Thunberg waited a while before responding to Mnuchin’s comments. In a trio of tweets, Thunberg, who is on a gap year from school until August, said “it doesn’t take a college degree in economics to realise that our remaining 1,5° carbon budget and ongoing fossil fuel subsidies and investments don’t add up.”

Without naming Mnuchin in particular, she added that “either you tell us how to achieve this mitigation or explain to future generations and those already affected by the climate emergency why we should abandon our climate commitments.”

The Associated Press on Twitter: "U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin takes a swipe at 17-year-old Swedish climate activist @GretaThunberg, says she’s in no position to give economic advice until she goes to college and comes out with an economics degree. https://t.co/6MefqeANYa" / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "If you don’t have an economics degree like Greta, they’ll mock you for not having one.
If you DO have one, as I do, they’ll claim it’s illegitimate.
Haters gonna hate & deniers will deny. They will deny logic, science, and environmental consensus in order to protect oligarchy. https://t.co/6b0S40MQk2" / Twitter

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yea, right, and now in the 19th-21st century all that has stopped and everything is purely human caused. Right, how stupid of me to not see that!

I once did a short stint as a consultant for a charitable org that specialised in trying to reform and get the right help for ex members of various cults like Scientology and religious cults. This GW/CC/CD cult makes all those cults look like harmless games kids once played. R. Hubbard must be spinning in his grave. If he had just a fraction of the resources this new cult has, his cult would have surpassed by far xtinaity and the death cult of islamism.

You're not addressing my point at all.

I did address your point! It's you who failed to point out that Earth is a dynamic ever evolving planet that wouldn't be recognizable if it was possible to hop on a time machine and go back to a time before the tectonic plates drifted apart.

You seem to have no concept of the timeframes involved--you treat 1,000 years and 100,000,000 years as the same.

 

[bilby]

I did address your point! It's you who failed to point out that Earth is a dynamic ever evolving planet that wouldn't be recognizable if it was possible to hop on a time machine and go back to a time before the tectonic plates drifted apart.

You seem to have no concept of the timeframes involved--you treat 1,000 years and 100,000,000 years as the same.

I imagine he tries to get out of speeding tickets by arguing that as we are all going round the sun at over 100,000km/h, another 150 is irrelevant.

 

[angelo]

As this article says. https://www.science.org.au/learning...ence&body=http://www.science.org.au/node/2020


climate has and will have enormous variations, and human activity in my and educated opinion is far from being the sole instigator. Listen to these idiots who don't have a clue!.

 

[ZiprHead]

As this article says. https://www.science.org.au/learning...ence&body=http://www.science.org.au/node/2020


climate has and will have enormous variations, and human activity in my and educated opinion is far from being the sole instigator. Listen to these idiots who don't have a clue!.

Wut, you have google?

And if you had read past the first two paragraphs in the link, you would have seen it destroyed your argument.

So you deserve another .

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Listen to these idiots who don't have a clue!.

On even days, Al Gore is lying and making a fortune off this fraud. On odd days, he is an idiot who actually believes these things.

 

[George S]

Listen to these idiots who don't have a clue!.

On even days, Al Gore is lying and making a fortune off this fraud. On odd days, he is an idiot who actually believes these things.

Of course no one actually knows what goes in Gore's mind but Gore. I dunno. No one knows but Gore. But, given that he's a politician, I will indulge in stereotyping: Politicians are known to customarily shade the truth for appearance sake. They lie. Gore is probably no exception so anything he says it to be taken with a mountain of salt. And, fraud or not, he has made a fortune off of carbon credits.

All of this should be subject to unbelief. Doubt. Doubt religions which rest on belief. Doubt fringe theories that rest on belief. Doubt even common sense -- collected wisdom.
When the debate is between believers and deniers I see a religious squabble. If it is 97% then the 3% should be heard and debunked with experimental science. Computer models are not experimental science. I can make a computer model any flavor you name, any tune you call. A piece of cake or chopsticks -- your choice.

I continue with my in-any-case solution. Whether the mainstream or the fringe is right there is at least one common solution. Nuclear generation immune from meltdown by design. Some can use spent waste from existing nuclear technology as fuel.
If CO2 is a pollutant causing significant global warming you may note that no CO2 is emitted.
If CO2 has little effect and the warming of the 1940s-1970s repeated anyway we can use the power for air conditioning.
If CO2 has little effect and there comes global cooling we can use the power for heat.

In what universe is this not a solution to electric generation? We could even, over time, become smaller and smaller grids until each is neighborhood sized; immune from wide scale outages.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Listen to these idiots who don't have a clue!.

On even days, Al Gore is lying and making a fortune off this fraud. On odd days, he is an idiot who actually believes these things.

Of course no one actually knows what goes in Gore's mind but Gore...

Yeah, that hasn't stopped the even day/odd day bullshit about Al Gore though. Posts from angelo read a lot like the World Weekly Reader which one day will say Elvis just died of Diabetes and the following week that Elvis was seen surfing in Honolulu.

I dunno. No one knows but Gore. But, given that he's a politician, I will indulge in stereotyping:

Yeah... we can't know, but you know what, I'm going to say it anyway.

All of this should be subject to unbelief. Doubt. Doubt religions which rest on belief. Doubt fringe theories that rest on belief. Doubt even common sense -- collected wisdom.
When the debate is between believers and deniers I see a religious squabble. If it is 97% then the 3% should be heard and debunked with experimental science. Computer models are not experimental science. I can make a computer model any flavor you name, any tune you call.

Okay, develop us a climate prediction model.

 

[TSwizzle]

It is possible that Greta's ivory tower is built on sand;

Greta Thunberg has criticised world and business leaders for ignoring calls to break away from fossil fuels, as young people protested in Davos over the climate emergency. “Before we came here we had a few demands for this WEF and of course those demands have been completely ignored, but we expected nothing less,” said Thunberg. On Thursday, the US Treasury secretary, Steven Mnuchin, said climate activists should recognise the impact of fossil fuel divestment on jobs, and said Thunberg should go study economics before offering advice.

Teh Gruaniad

Her star is beginning to wane and she will be as irrelevant as Al Gore and Prince Jug Ears.

Micah White, the co-founder of the Occupy Wall Street movement, said the trillion tree campaign would work as a Trojan horse to help mobilise people to fight the climate emergency. "To actually mobilise that number of people, and plant that number of trees, will be such a systemic disruption of our day-to-day lives that it will be revolutionary. White said corporations would have to tell staff, “You don’t have to come into work this week, we’re all planting trees”, and governments will have to deposit trees in all the schools, to actually carry out the plan."

A Rapture like cult indeed.

 

[George S]

Okay, develop us a climate prediction model.

Set your parameters; call your tune.
Which global historical temperature data set should I use?
Which solar forcing data set should I use? The one with the solar particle forcing data (to be issued this year) or the current one?
How much forcing should I contribute to CO2?
How much is the future prediction for CO2? (As of current models 80% of the possible CO2 forcing is already accounted for, the next doubling will raise it to 90% of possible.)
What adiabetic lapse rate do you want? From which source(s)?
Should I account for Hadley Cells?
Do you want a random volcano every so often? Really big ones can cause a decade of cooling.
How do you want to account for clouds? (Most existing models just use a parameter %.) There is a fringe theory that when 30C is reached where updrafts can form cumulus clouds, thunderstorms and squall lines act as negative feedback controlling temperatures.
Should I account for the "global electric circuit" contributing a bit to atmospheric heat?
Should I model the Russian model which is the one that made the best predictions of the present?
Tell me ... If you want it to confirm the CO2 hypothesis, it will. If you want global cooling I can confirm that too.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Okay, develop us a climate prediction model.

Set your parameters; call your tune.
Which global historical temperature data set should I use?
Which solar forcing data set should I use? The one with the solar particle forcing data (to be issued this year) or the current one?
How much forcing should I contribute to CO2?
How much is the future prediction for CO2? (As of current models 80% of the possible CO2 forcing is already accounted for, the next doubling will raise it to 90% of possible.)
What adiabetic lapse rate do you want? From which source(s)?
Should I account for Hadley Cells?
Do you want a random volcano every so often? Really big ones can cause a decade of cooling.
How do you want to account for clouds? (Most existing models just use a parameter %.) There is a fringe theory that when 30C is reached where updrafts can form cumulus clouds, thunderstorms and squall lines act as negative feedback controlling temperatures.
Should I account for the "global electric circuit" contributing a bit to atmospheric heat?
Should I model the Russian model which is the one that made the best predictions of the present?
Tell me ... If you want it to confirm the CO2 hypothesis, it will. If you want global cooling I can confirm that too.

You said it was simple. Stop wasting your time and develop a climate model.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is possible that Greta's ivory tower is built on sand;

She is a spokesperson for her generation, not a climate scientist. Climate scientists say climate change is a serious problem. She is out there saying 'Leaders, Climate Scientists are saying this is a big problem and you aren't doing anything about this serious problem.' And some other people are complaining that Thunberg doesn't have a PhD.

Meanwhile, capitalism evangelists are bitching about how we can't afford to deal with it... while saying Al Gore and the Deep State of Climate Change are making a fortune off of it.

 

[Elixir]

It is possible that Greta's ivory tower is built on sand;

She is a spokesperson for her generation, not a climate scientist. Climate scientists say climate change is a serious problem. She is out there saying 'Leaders, Climate Scientists are saying this is a big problem and you aren't doing anything about this serious problem.' And some other people are complaining that Thunberg doesn't have a PhD.

Those are the same people who think PhDs are useless. Hypocrites one and all.

Meanwhile, capitalism evangelists are bitching about how we can't afford to deal with it... while saying Al Gore and the Deep State of Climate Change are making a fortune off of it.

How? Have any of them explained HOW to make a fortune off it, other than to work for fossil fuel companies?

 

[TSwizzle]

She is a spokesperson for her generation,

Not really. Greta Thurnberg is the front for a fringe group of extremists and fanatics. A cult leader if ever there was one.

How dare you indeed.

 

[lpetrich]

Okay, develop us a climate prediction model.

Set your parameters; call your tune. ...

George S, why don't you read the mainstream scientific literature? Or even learn how to do climate-modeling calculations.

 

[George S]

Okay, develop us a climate prediction model.

Set your parameters; call your tune. ...

George S, why don't you read the mainstream scientific literature? Or even learn how to do climate-modeling calculations.

I have read the mainstream literature. And I can do the calculations. My issue is with the modeling as "science." That is my field of interest. I taught modeling, AI and operating systems. Models don't work well on chaotic systems (like weather).Climate may be less chaotic, but, given the lack of success at prediction so far, why trust it in the future.

 

[bilby]

Listen to these idiots who don't have a clue!.

On even days, Al Gore is lying and making a fortune off this fraud. On odd days, he is an idiot who actually believes these things.

And every day, Gore is a former politician, and not a climate scientist.

His opinions are correct, only insofar as he agrees with and repeats the findings of climatologists.

I don't give a crap what Gore says. He's a secondary source. Indeed, I don't know anyone who thinks Gore is an authority on this subject, except disingenuous right wing nuts, who are determined to build the strawman argument that as Gore is the main voice for climate change claims, but not a climatologist, and very much not a Republican, all claims of climate change are a left wing conspiracy by non-experts.

But of course, Gore isn't an authority. So we should disregard him, and merely note that he (perhaps purely coincidentally) repeats the actual claims of actual authorities.

All the primary sources agree that there's a problem. Secondary sources are just a red herring. That's probably why I have only ever seen Gore mentioned by denialists, or in response to denialists. Gore is irrelevant. A showman. Fuck Gore. The climatologists are telling the story, and Gore is merely repeating it. Greta Thunberg too - hangers on who happen to be good at publicity are a necessary evil, but the problem the denialists have is that that's all they've got. While the climatologists have publicists as a secondary effect, the denialists have fuck all else. And their publicists are utter shit.

Poor old Al Gore is just a liability now. He said his piece, and got buried in ad hominems. But he was never the source of any information, just a medium for its dissemination.