Now #BLMers are rioting in Minneapolis after black murderer kills himself

[JohnG]

Yeah, I like Sowell. He just seems to have the best observations of these things.

You realize this is Trump's whole schtick, right?

"Immigrants, China, Canada, The Radical Left, NATO, are ALL coming to get you and only I can save you"

 

[Derec]

And yet the structural methods for how those schools get resources is skewed towards the already wealthy.

The already wealthy send their children to private schools, in addition to paying their property taxes.
That said, there should be some equalization in funding between richer and poorer districts, maybe via statewide taxes.
Not that the biggest problem with school funding is the money per student, but how that money is spent.

If education is supposed to be the great equalizer then shouldn’t all students get an equal chance?

I think they should. Take NYC where they have a few high-achieving special high schools like Stuyvesant. You get in via a test, so every kid has the same chance, as it should be. But that produces a politically incorrect racial mix, and so lefty politicians like BdB want to ruin them by making it so that not every student gets an equal chance to get in, but that your chances depend on what school you currently go to. Given uneven distribution by race in neighborhoods and thus in local schools, BdB wants to impose a racial quota by proxy.
The result would be the same as what goes with most universities, where black and Hispanic students are given a better chance to get in by effectively lowering admissions standards for them.

 

[Derec]

Tamir Rice was not engaged in criminal activity. A well-functioning social compact would nit allow those officers off.

Adulterating a BB gun to remove the orange tip may be a crime.
In any case, it is possible that Tamir Rice did not commit a crime but that the two officers did not either. Sometimes tragedies are just tragedies.
I think that in this case the city should be liable, just like in Breonna Taylor case. I do not think cities/counties should be liable in cases where police did nothing wrong, like for example Korryn Gaines who threatened police trying to serve a warrant with a long gun.

Ms Taylor is dead - how is that the result if a well-functioning social compact.

Sometimes shit happens. People are not perfect. In a country of 320 million sometimes circumstances will conspire to result in fucked up tragedies. That does not mean things can't be improved though, for example by ending the war on drugs (which does not mean legalizing all the drugs, but dialing things a couple of notches) and not issuing no knock warrants except in exceptional cases.

Never said it did.

No, but others (BWE and prideandfall specifically) have.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

What specifically has BWE been writing about the violence?

You are in favor of it.

Where did I say that? Because I am generally not in favor of violence, I wonder if I was subtling where I should have been obviousing.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

the system is designed to have an underclass. You just want a way to justify what is structurally inherent.

Name me a system that doesn't. The difference is that in Western capitalism the "underclass" is still pretty well off, especially compared to other systems throughout history. Including actually existing socialism.

the underclass in Nordic countries is worse off than in America? Anyway, you entirely missed my point.

 

[Swammerdami]

@ Derec - My dialog was an obvious caricature, hoping that simplicity would focus your thoughts. Three looters, or even 100, shouldn't make us forget that Millions suffer under a racist system. We have a hateful President who has literally denied Covid-19 aid to D-voting states for political gain. But you want to focus on 100 looters who may or may not have stolen a Gucci bag.

(And my "100 looters" is a test. I expect you to rejoinder with "at least 150 looters" proving that you still miss the whole point.)

S: There is systemic persecution of blacks in all parts of the Justice system.

There isn't.

Oh my. I and others have linked to supporting news items and opinion. At this point the onus is on you. YOU Google up the relevant on-line essays and explain why you think they'e wrong. Take up the challenge! Show us that yours is the voice of wisdom, not just Trumpist babble.

 

[Gun Nut]

Is it possible, among this here group of internet posters, to express understanding of other people's motives while not supporting their specific actions?
Or, is comprehension something only possible if one is fully subscribed, a member of that community, and fully in support of all action, past and present? That sounds self-centered and ignorant to me.

 

[laughing dog]

Adulterating a BB gun to remove the orange tip may be a crime. [
In any case, it is possible that Tamir Rice did not commit a crime but that the two officers did not either. Sometimes tragedies are just tragedies. ...

There is something wrong with the social compact when officers of the state are absolved of shooting unarmed civilians because of fear/cowardice. It is obvious that there us a problem with the social compact when a significant portion of the population think civilians with criminal records merit being shot. It is obvious that the reaction to the brutal treatment of George Floyd shows that the is a problem with our social compact.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Every country is different though. Germans for example have a metality of following the rules, while Americans love to be rebellious.
You don't think that the anti-maskers would still be anti-masking if Pres. Hillary told them to put the damn mask on?

There would still be some but having the Orange Turd encouraging the rebels makes the problem a lot worse.

Now other things a more competent administration could achieve. Proper national strategy, coordinating with governors over PPE and testing, not touting discredited potential cures. Things like that. But it's difficult to tell what the impact would have been, and you can't exactly compare the US with places like Germany or New Zealand.

And about having taken it seriously from day 1 rather than sit on his ass for many weeks.

Not to mention favoring the herd immunity strategy, actively seeking to increase infections with the crazy idea the high risk people can be shielded.

But they focus on BLM instead.

But they are the problem! The leader of the BLM Chicago for example explicitly endorsed looting and rioting as a form of "reparations" for black people.

BLM has some real kooks. That doesn't mean it's BLM doing the looting. Look at the faces of the looters--even with a mask you can tell what color their skin is.

 

[laughing dog]

BLM has some real kooks. That doesn't mean it's BLM doing the looting. Look at the faces of the looters--even with a mask you can tell what color their skin is.

BLM supporters come from all races. So the race of a looter does not tell much.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If the police announced themselves, then yes he did wrong by shooting at them. But what you said is probably why the charges against him were dropped even though he shot and wounded a police officer.

Note that the police announcing themselves and the people inside understanding the announcement are two different things. Many houses are such that someone yelling at the front door will not be understood in all parts of the house. With the various stuff in this room I'm not at all sure I would even hear someone yelling at the front door.

Furthermore, the police do these high-risk raids when people are sleeping--if you're waken by a yell you will not understand what was said.

If there was malfeasance in obtaining the warrant, then the officer(s) responsible and only those officers did wrong.
The officers returning fire when fired upon did nothing wrong either.

Exactly. This isn't the fault of the officers involved, it's the fault of the system.

As far as I know, there was a warrant. It's just that the subject of the warrant, Taylor's ex boyfriend, was no longer living there.

Yup, and it looks like they were lying to the judge.

 

[laughing dog]

Exactly. This isn't the fault of the officers involved, it's the fault of the system.

The system made those officers to completely miss their target?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, I like Sowell. He just seems to have the best observations of these things.

You realize this is Trump's whole schtick, right?

"Immigrants, China, Canada, The Radical Left, NATO, are ALL coming to get you and only I can save you"

Not at all.

Sowell is saying that there is no top, everyone is behind others in some respects and that it should not be a cause for animosity.

His Flatulence is saying the non-whites are coming for you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Tamir Rice was not engaged in criminal activity. A well-functioning social compact would nit allow those officers off.

This isn't leftist fantasyland, bad things sometimes happen. We mandate those orange tips specifically to avoid incidents like Tamir Rice. He defeated a safety system and died because of it. Reality is sometimes a very harsh grader.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Tamir Rice was not engaged in criminal activity. A well-functioning social compact would nit allow those officers off.

This isn't leftist fantasyland, bad things sometimes happen.

They are likely to happen when a person that is considered too immature to become an officer at a suburb police department, makes the cut in the urban police department.

We mandate those orange tips specifically to avoid incidents like Tamir Rice. He defeated a safety system and died because of it. Reality is sometimes a very harsh grader.

Not really. The officer that shot and killed a kid that didn't have a real gun, at the end of a very very short sequence of events that involved no thinking whatsoever, didn't serve any time.

 

[laughing dog]

Tamir Rice was not engaged in criminal activity. A well-functioning social compact would nit allow those officers off.

This isn't leftist fantasyland, bad things sometimes happen. We mandate those orange tips specifically to avoid incidents like Tamir Rice. He defeated a safety system and died because of it. Reality is sometimes a very harsh grader.

This is not a racist authoritarian fantasyland either. A social compact that allows officers of the state to gun down a civilian because they are fucking cowards and encourages apologia to defend such deplorable behavior is a broken social compact.

 

[ZiprHead]

Tamir Rice was not engaged in criminal activity. A well-functioning social compact would nit allow those officers off.

This isn't leftist fantasyland, bad things sometimes happen. We mandate those orange tips specifically to avoid incidents like Tamir Rice. He defeated a safety system and died because of it. Reality is sometimes a very harsh grader.

IIRC, the cops never saw the bb gun to see if there was an orange tip.

 

[Arctish]

Tamir Rice was not engaged in criminal activity. A well-functioning social compact would nit allow those officers off.

This isn't leftist fantasyland, bad things sometimes happen. We mandate those orange tips specifically to avoid incidents like Tamir Rice. He defeated a safety system and died because of it. Reality is sometimes a very harsh grader.

IIRC, the cops never saw the bb gun to see if there was an orange tip.

You recall correctly.

The pellet gun was in Rice's waistband when the cops came to screeching halt right in front of him. Loehmann jumped out and shot Rice immediately. It would not have mattered if the pellet gun had an orange tip because the cops didn't try to asses the situation. They just assumed Rice was the person they'd been told about, that he had a gun, and shot him. Then they locked his sister in their patrol car and did not render aid themselves.

 

[Toni]

Tamir Rice was not engaged in criminal activity. A well-functioning social compact would nit allow those officers off.

This isn't leftist fantasyland, bad things sometimes happen. We mandate those orange tips specifically to avoid incidents like Tamir Rice. He defeated a safety system and died because of it. Reality is sometimes a very harsh grader.

FFS. At age 12, my father was an accomplished hunter and used to roam the countryside in search of dinner. I think I made his day twice: once when I allowed him to buy his grandson a toy cowboy set, with rifle, holster and pistol and a cowboy hat and again whenninalllwed him to buy the same kid a BB gun when he was 12.

But they’re white, so it was ok.

 

[Shadowy Man]

You get in via a test, so every kid has the same chance, as it should be. But that produces a politically incorrect racial mix,

And why do you suppose that is? What would cause children of certain races to not perform as well on tests? Why do certain races not have the same educational resources as children of other races? Why do you think schools in poor neighborhoods suffer from so many infrastructure problems when schools in rich neighborhoods don't?

I don't want to presume I know what you think about these issues, but I personally don't believe that rich people *deserve* better schools than poor people. And if we claim that the way out of poverty is through education, we should be making sure that the poorer neighborhoods get the resources they need and make sure that they don't have environmental problems that interfere with the childrens' ability to learn. Ultimately, if we equalize these opportunities I believe that we will actually have less socioeconomic inequities and ultimately less crime, less violence, less social unrest.

But to continue to support a skewed systematic approach to education and the funding thereof, we will continue to have these problems and blame them on things that aren't the real problems, propagating the same biases and inequities that we have suffered from for centuries.