TomC
Bless Your Heart!
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No, the C doesn't stand for Clark. I've never taught typing. I'm certainly no "Mrs."
Are you misgendering me on purpose?
Tom
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Parents Of School Shooter Charged
- Thread starter ZiprHead
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Are you misgendering me on purpose?
Tom
southernhybrid
Contributor
I don't know if there are legal grounds for their arrest, but knowing that this kid was very troubled, especially based on the note that he wrote about blood and killing, adding "Help me", they might have been able to send him for a psych eval immediately and suspended him for school. It appeared as if there were signs and symptoms that he was potentially a danger to himself or others. Regardless, it's a horrible tragedy both for his victims and for himself. Just think. If we had much stricter gun control laws, which even most gun owners support, disturbed children wouldn't be able to shoot down their peers in school.
TomC
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It's a horrible tragedy for everyone, including his parents and the school staff.
But his parents knew he had a gun. The school staff didn't. That's the huge difference. Had the parents told the staff that they bought him a gun for Christmas(Happy Birthday Jesus) I doubt that the staff would have sent him back to school.
I'm very confident that the staff would not have let him stay without checking his backpack and locker and anywhere else he might have hidden the gun that his parents bought him. But the parents didn't tell the staff the child had a gun.
It's on them.
Tom
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Laws are complicated and due to some issues of privacy we may not know the whole story. One thing to consider here is that children to an extent have constitutional (and civil) rights and so the 4th amendment for search and seizure is partially applicable. This means there is a certain burden of proof and documentation involved in order to get police involved to check a backpack. The school itself has less burden of proof and/or red tape to check a backpack because the school is in loco parentis. So you might start thinking that the school could do this. However, once the parents were present on-site at the school, it isn't clear that the school within that room and immediate vicinity is the guardian of the child, since the actual legal guardians were present. The school administration was likely thinking the parents would do whatever they would ordinarily do--which is to check the kid and possessions. Parents, of course, are less protocol-driven and with serious emotional attachment would be in denial. This case goes beyond mere denial, though, because the parents were probably reckless and negligent in some other areas, like the mother texting the kid "LOL" and not to get caught after finding out he was searching for ammo!
Toni
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No, i wasn’t misgendering you. I was sharing. I thought you might be related, Mrs. Clark was old enough to be my mother and I’m pretty sure you’re a little younger than I am.
This. Craziness can generally be identified by long observation, but the school isn't going to have enough interactions in most cases to realize someone is nuts.
The search would say it's likely he has some access to a firearm. That does not suggest that he has a firearm in his backpack.
In other words, her hand slipped one column to the left while typing that. She probably moved her hand for some reason and then put it back in the wrong position. Even with tactile marks on the F and J I have done that sort of thing on occasion and most keyboards don't have those tactile marks.
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I have a lot of trouble going from my full size 17" laptop to the keyboard on my much smaller chromebook.
Someone was talking about the parents this morning after the news of their arrest came out. I said they were Trump supporters. I was askeds to explain. I said, "Their son had been arrested for a serious crime. When they realized they could be blamed, they abandoned him and ran away.
If poor judgment and impaired impulse control is linked to a recessive gene, it's obvious that both his parents are carriers of that gene.
If poor judgment and impaired impulse control is linked to a recessive gene, it's obvious that both his parents are carriers of that gene.
barbos
Contributor
Well, it's been established that pretty much everything including what brain does is genetic. But in this particular case, kid is 15, his brain won't be fully developed for 10 more years (on average). His parents yeah, they are crazy.
Swammerdami
Squadron Leader
Yes, the school could have called police, searched the kid's backpack or taken other actions; and yes, the school district will probably be paying out millions in liability judgements. But in the context of present-day Amerika I think it's wrong to pin special blame on the school officials.
First note that, while schools are allowed to search lockers without a warrant — the lockers are school property — this does not apply to backpacks. To forcibly search a backpack without permission from student or parents requires "reasonable suspicion" or, in some cases, "probable cause." Is the school supposed to shell out $200, or whatever it is, for a lawyer's opinion on every incident?
Yes, a judge (if appointed by Democrats) would probably decide that such a search had at least "reasonable suspicion." But legal-system judges are not the relevant judges in post-rational Amerika. Whether they found a gun in the backpack or not, Karen Crumbley would have been posting on Facebook about the assault on their 4th, 2nd and 1st Amendment rights. School officials would start getting death threats. And, when Ethan's suspension was finished and he came back firing a gun, the particular school official who searched the backpack would be first on Ethan's hit-list.
Several Congressmen are receiving death threats repeatedly. (Ilhan Omar is literally up to thousands.) QOP Congressmen are receiving death threats just for voting not to shut-down the government. True, most of these threats won't be acted on; but receiving them is still scary. Kudos to Ilhan and other brave people who persist despite these threats, but millions would not. QOPAnon has learned that, while one man gets only one vote, sending hundreds of death threats gives a single QOPAnoner more political power than dozens of ordinary voters.
In the 1940's the U.S. lost many soldiers rescuing Europe from tyranny. The victims of the Oxford school massacre are martyrs whose deaths should also be turned to good; opinion-makers need to use such incidents to shed light on Amerika's festering faults. If rational citizens are now more likely to vote, or some of the saner Trumpists clear their heads, then these children will not have died in vain.
[off-topic:]
Nitpick: If the fingers were all off a key, the 'a' would have hit CapsLock and 'and' would change to 'BS', not 'abs.'
First note that, while schools are allowed to search lockers without a warrant — the lockers are school property — this does not apply to backpacks. To forcibly search a backpack without permission from student or parents requires "reasonable suspicion" or, in some cases, "probable cause." Is the school supposed to shell out $200, or whatever it is, for a lawyer's opinion on every incident?
Yes, a judge (if appointed by Democrats) would probably decide that such a search had at least "reasonable suspicion." But legal-system judges are not the relevant judges in post-rational Amerika. Whether they found a gun in the backpack or not, Karen Crumbley would have been posting on Facebook about the assault on their 4th, 2nd and 1st Amendment rights. School officials would start getting death threats. And, when Ethan's suspension was finished and he came back firing a gun, the particular school official who searched the backpack would be first on Ethan's hit-list.
Several Congressmen are receiving death threats repeatedly. (Ilhan Omar is literally up to thousands.) QOP Congressmen are receiving death threats just for voting not to shut-down the government. True, most of these threats won't be acted on; but receiving them is still scary. Kudos to Ilhan and other brave people who persist despite these threats, but millions would not. QOPAnon has learned that, while one man gets only one vote, sending hundreds of death threats gives a single QOPAnoner more political power than dozens of ordinary voters.
In the 1940's the U.S. lost many soldiers rescuing Europe from tyranny. The victims of the Oxford school massacre are martyrs whose deaths should also be turned to good; opinion-makers need to use such incidents to shed light on Amerika's festering faults. If rational citizens are now more likely to vote, or some of the saner Trumpists clear their heads, then these children will not have died in vain.
[off-topic:]
Nitpick: If the fingers were all off a key, the 'a' would have hit CapsLock and 'and' would change to 'BS', not 'abs.'
Toni
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I’ve never been a good typist. I have a different phone and somehow, the keyboard is off from my previous phone although they’re both iPhones plus it autocorrects incorrectly all the time and makes spurious assumptions about my intentions. On my keyboard, the s is just to the left of the d and the b is just to the left of the n and we all know I lean left so I suppose the errors are inevitable.
lpetrich
Contributor
Seems like the prosecutor is charging the shooter's parents with 
Criminal negligence -- What is criminal negligence? | Nolo
But it's hard to find mentions of criminal negligence in news stories about this prosecution, though I've found Oxford shooting updates: Terrorism charge, Detroit area schools closed
Criminal negligence -- What is criminal negligence? | NoloBut it's hard to find mentions of criminal negligence in news stories about this prosecution, though I've found Oxford shooting updates: Terrorism charge, Detroit area schools closed
Politesse
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I would be interested in hearing a cogent argument as to why the parents should not, in fact, be charged with criminal negligence for their actions and inactions.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Well, the NRA seems to be silent on this one. Maybe Alex Jones will have something to say.
barbos
Contributor
Oh that guy. If only we had a crazy gun-nut democrat with 15 year old kid....
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
No. There are varying state laws. In their state, it is illegal for a minor to own, buy or possess a gun. Exception for hunting in particular with adult supervision.
Just found the reason the kid was with the father when father bought gun, it was a Christmas gift.
The kid put on social media about having the gift next day. The mother also put in a text somewhere about the gun being a gift.
That's why from parents' perspective, they should have considered greater probability the kid might have HIS gun in backpack. The school was not aware of the immediate, undeterred access to a gun by the student because he illegally OWNED it due to parents.
That's why parents ran. They took $4000 from ATM and were hiding in a commercial building.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Here is info on Jennifer Crumbley's open letter to Trump:
“Mr. Trump, I actually love that you are a bad public speaker because that showed sincerity, and humility,” she wrote. “You changed your mind, and you said ‘so what.’ You made the famous ‘grab them in the pussy’ comment, did it offend me? No. I say things all the time that people take the wrong way, do I mean them, not always. Do I agree that you should of [sic] shown your tax returns? No. I don’t care what you do or maybe don’t pay in taxes, I think those are personal and if the Gov’t can lock someone up over $10,000 of unpaid taxes and you slipped on by, then that shows the corruption.”
Crumbley went on to tell Trump that she hoped he would “really uncover the politicians for what I believe they really are,” and that he might “shut down Big Pharma, make health care affordable for me and my MIDDLE CLASS family again.” She was in favor of Trump’s long-promised border wall, and noted that she was “not racist” because her grandfather “came straight off the boat in Italy.”
“As a female and a Realtor, thank you for allowing my right to bear arms,” the letter continued. “Allowing me to be protected if I show a home to someone with bad intentions. Thank you for respecting that Amendment.”
She complained about parents at other schools where the “kids come from illegal immigrant parents” and “don’t care about learning.”
It was signed, “A hard working Middle Class Law Abiding Citizen who is sick of getting fucked in the ass and would rather be grabbed by the pussy.”
Chilling Journal Found as Teen Gunman’s Parents Are Probed
Ethan Crumbley, 15, had displayed “behavior in the classroom” that school officials “felt was concerning.”
www.thedailybeast.com
Jarhyn
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7
It is the very act of taking a loyalty test to "lawful evil", a vocal and clear/gnostic rejection of truth in such a way that those you perform it in front of may not realize that is what you are doing.
Of course the people participating in this handshake may be partially or wholely ignorant in their conscious mind as to that this is even happening. They may know there are things they don't care about (like, you know, the truth). Much like a handshake, whether a rejection or a sudden offer of one, we may not realize the full set of implications and postures that spin into action when the behavior is done.
Over the last weeks, parallel to a hiring push, I have been party to observe several flirtations occurring between employees at the place where I work, some appreciated and some not. Most interesting among them was one unwanted flirtation performed by a specific coworker, and interesting primarily for the fact that the flirty coworker did not understand that his actions were, in fact, flirting at all. Perhaps many can be treated simply by helping them become aware. I expect some perce gave of people who act in accordance with evil at some level strive to be good.
I expect that many of the evil people (and yes, passing this loyalty test is putting yourself explicitly on the wrong side of ethics) do not understand, consciously, that this is the thing people are talking about when they utter "evil".
I accept that to attach such a strong and elemental word to such a "small" thing is kind of scary; what is scary to me is what this represents: the person who can utter "Trump Won the Election" is exactly the person who tells their son "lol, stop getting caught" when they show red flag behaviors.
All this says to me is an argument that any child whose parents can say "trump won the election" unabashedly despite the massive pile of evidence is the victim of something heinous.
Here is info on Jennifer Crumbley's open letter to Trump:
“Mr. Trump, I actually love that you are a bad public speaker because that showed sincerity, and humility,” she wrote. “You changed your mind, and you said ‘so what.’ You made the famous ‘grab them in the pussy’ comment, did it offend me? No. I say things all the time that people take the wrong way, do I mean them, not always. Do I agree that you should of [sic] shown your tax returns? No. I don’t care what you do or maybe don’t pay in taxes, I think those are personal and if the Gov’t can lock someone up over $10,000 of unpaid taxes and you slipped on by, then that shows the corruption.”
Crumbley went on to tell Trump that she hoped he would “really uncover the politicians for what I believe they really are,” and that he might “shut down Big Pharma, make health care affordable for me and my MIDDLE CLASS family again.” She was in favor of Trump’s long-promised border wall, and noted that she was “not racist” because her grandfather “came straight off the boat in Italy.”
“As a female and a Realtor, thank you for allowing my right to bear arms,” the letter continued. “Allowing me to be protected if I show a home to someone with bad intentions. Thank you for respecting that Amendment.”
She complained about parents at other schools where the “kids come from illegal immigrant parents” and “don’t care about learning.”
It was signed, “A hard working Middle Class Law Abiding Citizen who is sick of getting fucked in the ass and would rather be grabbed by the pussy.”
Chilling Journal Found as Teen Gunman’s Parents Are Probed
Ethan Crumbley, 15, had displayed “behavior in the classroom” that school officials “felt was concerning.”www.thedailybeast.com
It is the very act of taking a loyalty test to "lawful evil", a vocal and clear/gnostic rejection of truth in such a way that those you perform it in front of may not realize that is what you are doing.
Of course the people participating in this handshake may be partially or wholely ignorant in their conscious mind as to that this is even happening. They may know there are things they don't care about (like, you know, the truth). Much like a handshake, whether a rejection or a sudden offer of one, we may not realize the full set of implications and postures that spin into action when the behavior is done.
Over the last weeks, parallel to a hiring push, I have been party to observe several flirtations occurring between employees at the place where I work, some appreciated and some not. Most interesting among them was one unwanted flirtation performed by a specific coworker, and interesting primarily for the fact that the flirty coworker did not understand that his actions were, in fact, flirting at all. Perhaps many can be treated simply by helping them become aware. I expect some perce gave of people who act in accordance with evil at some level strive to be good.
I expect that many of the evil people (and yes, passing this loyalty test is putting yourself explicitly on the wrong side of ethics) do not understand, consciously, that this is the thing people are talking about when they utter "evil".
I accept that to attach such a strong and elemental word to such a "small" thing is kind of scary; what is scary to me is what this represents: the person who can utter "Trump Won the Election" is exactly the person who tells their son "lol, stop getting caught" when they show red flag behaviors.