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Police Misconduct Catch All Thread

There's an update on the Clayton County Georgia case. The officer who was put on leave, has been fired and there will be a criminal investigation into the matter. Perhaps justice will be served.

I will add that we need to require more education, and better pay to our police officers. They need to receive a lot more training about how to deal with people, including anger management. I'm not anti police. I want police to do their job, to protect and serve the people, not to over react when a suspect doesn't treat them respectfully or when a suspect resists arrest without any evidence of the suspect being armed. And, we don't need armed police to report minor, non violent crimes. Why not just ticket the individual and give them a court date. Selling cigarettes illegally so you can put on the table should not end in a death. *sigh*


But, I digress. I'll give you the AJC link if anyone is interested in reading the entire article.

https://www.ajc.com/news/clayton-deputy-placed-on-leave-following-viral-video-of-arrest/EUZJKBRMPRBGFBNFJ24CJRUOSY/

I agree with more training, but better pay? There are cops making in the hundreds of thousands of dollars/year. Average police salary is in the high $40k range. That's not rolling in the dough, but it's not exactly chump change. I wish teachers got paid that much.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Police-Officer-Salary-by-State

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-High-School-Teacher-Salary-by-State

I put both links there because I want to go back when I have time and do a state by state comparison. Just eyeballing it, cops make $10-15k more than teachers. And last I looked, teachers don't kill a bunch of unarmed (mostly black) people every year.
 
We do NOT need police who brutalize citizens.



I've admitted no such thing outside of your fantasy world. As far as fear of outgroups, self reflection is not a strong trait of right wing authoritarian followers.

You have admitted to always going with the side without power if the situation isn't certain. You are taking it on faith that they are right.

NO. It's about NOT taking a side conclusively and it IS about making sure that the person without power is protected from abuse of power! Why is this fucking rocket science? Looking immediately to vilify the victim and excuse the police is exactly the mentality that erodes protection from abuse for all of us.

NO society ever suffered from protecting the least among them, but many a society has fucking crumbled to dust by protecting its most powerful, with sometimes centuries of suffering on its way out.

Some people have to end up on the wrong side of their own hate cult before they can muster up a glimmer of understanding of this.

Fuck authority worshipers. Fucking mindless obedience machines handing their conscience over to abusive daddy figures and scared of getting beaten if they think for themselves. Fuck every god damn one of them.
LP and Derec can't tell the difference between holding the side with power to the same standard (and IMO, they should be held to a higher standard) of conduct than those that are oppressed.

Classic authoritarian behavior. LP tries to hide it behind bogus statistics and other lies that he googles. Derec doesn't try to hide it.
 
There's an update on the Clayton County Georgia case. The officer who was put on leave, has been fired and there will be a criminal investigation into the matter. Perhaps justice will be served.

I will add that we need to require more education, and better pay to our police officers. They need to receive a lot more training about how to deal with people, including anger management. I'm not anti police. I want police to do their job, to protect and serve the people, not to over react when a suspect doesn't treat them respectfully or when a suspect resists arrest without any evidence of the suspect being armed. And, we don't need armed police to report minor, non violent crimes. Why not just ticket the individual and give them a court date. Selling cigarettes illegally so you can put on the table should not end in a death. *sigh*


But, I digress. I'll give you the AJC link if anyone is interested in reading the entire article.

https://www.ajc.com/news/clayton-deputy-placed-on-leave-following-viral-video-of-arrest/EUZJKBRMPRBGFBNFJ24CJRUOSY/

I agree with more training, but better pay? There are cops making in the hundreds of thousands of dollars/year. Average police salary is in the high $40k range. That's not rolling in the dough, but it's not exactly chump change. I wish teachers got paid that much.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Police-Officer-Salary-by-State

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-High-School-Teacher-Salary-by-State

I put both links there because I want to go back when I have time and do a state by state comparison. Just eyeballing it, cops make $10-15k more than teachers. And last I looked, teachers don't kill a bunch of unarmed (mostly black) people every year.

It depends where they live. In my city, the cops make a lot less money than the teachers, and the teachers are very under paid. I should have said the pay should be increased in places where it's not competitive with other difficult professions. Still, if the job required a lot more education along with better pay, maybe we'd get more qualified people willing to enter the profession. Policing, if done right, is certainly a difficult, potentially dangerous job. I live 3 doors down from a very nice, black police detective, who was recently promoted. I don't know much about his background but he seems like a very good person, calm and respectful. We need more like him.

The last time I checked, the entry salary for cops in my city was less than 30K. Teachers are often underpaid but entry level teachers make at least 5K more than that here, and they do have a lot more time off compared to the police. I doubt that most cops are killing unarmed black men. These are both difficult jobs, but I think having about 12 weeks and all holidays off does make a teaching job a bit more attractive. It gives one a chance to decompress.

I think that policing should require at the very minimum an associate degree in law enforcement. Hospital nurses with an AD usually start at about 40 or 50K, depending on location. Nursing is hard, but I would imagine that being a "good cop" is also hard. I'm sure there are places where the police are over paid, but there are also places where the pay needs to be more competitive with other professions. Anyway, policing certainly needs to be drastically reformed. At the same time, I don't want to be guilty of stereotyping every cop based on the actions of the worst ones.
 
There's an update on the Clayton County Georgia case. The officer who was put on leave, has been fired and there will be a criminal investigation into the matter. Perhaps justice will be served.

I will add that we need to require more education, and better pay to our police officers. They need to receive a lot more training about how to deal with people, including anger management. I'm not anti police. I want police to do their job, to protect and serve the people, not to over react when a suspect doesn't treat them respectfully or when a suspect resists arrest without any evidence of the suspect being armed. And, we don't need armed police to report minor, non violent crimes. Why not just ticket the individual and give them a court date. Selling cigarettes illegally so you can put on the table should not end in a death. *sigh*


But, I digress. I'll give you the AJC link if anyone is interested in reading the entire article.

https://www.ajc.com/news/clayton-deputy-placed-on-leave-following-viral-video-of-arrest/EUZJKBRMPRBGFBNFJ24CJRUOSY/

I agree with more training, but better pay? There are cops making in the hundreds of thousands of dollars/year. Average police salary is in the high $40k range. That's not rolling in the dough, but it's not exactly chump change. I wish teachers got paid that much.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Police-Officer-Salary-by-State

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-High-School-Teacher-Salary-by-State

I put both links there because I want to go back when I have time and do a state by state comparison. Just eyeballing it, cops make $10-15k more than teachers. And last I looked, teachers don't kill a bunch of unarmed (mostly black) people every year.

Raise teachers' salaries!

FWIW, many fewer teachers are killed at work than police officers. Both jobs are physically and emotionally taxing; both require training and education; both involve learning how to effectively manage people, individually or in a group and how to steer them the direction you want them to go. Both are designated as 'helpers' in our society. There are a lot of similarities.

Also, most police officers don't earn hundreds of thousands a year.
 
We do NOT need police who brutalize citizens.



I've admitted no such thing outside of your fantasy world. As far as fear of outgroups, self reflection is not a strong trait of right wing authoritarian followers.

You have admitted to always going with the side without power if the situation isn't certain. You are taking it on faith that they are right.

NO. It's about NOT taking a side conclusively and it IS about making sure that the person without power is protected from abuse of power! Why is this fucking rocket science? Looking immediately to vilify the victim and excuse the police is exactly the mentality that erodes protection from abuse for all of us.

You are treating the side with power as guilty unless proven innocent and you bend over backwards to not find them innocent.

You'll get a much better picture of the world if you go with preponderance of the evidence.
 
NO. It's about NOT taking a side conclusively and it IS about making sure that the person without power is protected from abuse of power! Why is this fucking rocket science? Looking immediately to vilify the victim and excuse the police is exactly the mentality that erodes protection from abuse for all of us.

You are treating the side with power as guilty unless proven innocent and you bend over backwards to not find them innocent.

You'll get a much better picture of the world if you go with preponderance of the evidence.

I'm treating them with WARINESS. Power is as corrupt as we allow it to be, but it will ALWAYS be corrupt when we give power the benefit of the doubt and vilify its targets.

You get a much saner, more humane, peaceful world if you keep power in check and seek to protect the powerless instead of seeking to excuse the excesses and abuses of the powerful.

Only people who erroneously think they will never be the target of corrupt authority figures are OK with authorities doing as they please to others. But authoritarianism is not sustainable and will always come back to bite you no matter how high you think you are in the hierarchy of the authority's graces.

It does not harm police whatsoever to put them under a microscope any time someone is harmed or treated unfairly while interacting with police. It doesn't do authority figures or police any harm whatsoever to hold them accountable. If they don't understand why this is, that is a big, fat clue that they should not be in positions of power.
 
There's an update on the Clayton County Georgia case. The officer who was put on leave, has been fired and there will be a criminal investigation into the matter. Perhaps justice will be served.

I will add that we need to require more education, and better pay to our police officers. They need to receive a lot more training about how to deal with people, including anger management. I'm not anti police. I want police to do their job, to protect and serve the people, not to over react when a suspect doesn't treat them respectfully or when a suspect resists arrest without any evidence of the suspect being armed. And, we don't need armed police to report minor, non violent crimes. Why not just ticket the individual and give them a court date. Selling cigarettes illegally so you can put on the table should not end in a death. *sigh*


But, I digress. I'll give you the AJC link if anyone is interested in reading the entire article.

https://www.ajc.com/news/clayton-deputy-placed-on-leave-following-viral-video-of-arrest/EUZJKBRMPRBGFBNFJ24CJRUOSY/

I agree with more training, but better pay? There are cops making in the hundreds of thousands of dollars/year. Average police salary is in the high $40k range. That's not rolling in the dough, but it's not exactly chump change. I wish teachers got paid that much.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Police-Officer-Salary-by-State

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-High-School-Teacher-Salary-by-State

I put both links there because I want to go back when I have time and do a state by state comparison. Just eyeballing it, cops make $10-15k more than teachers. And last I looked, teachers don't kill a bunch of unarmed (mostly black) people every year.

Raise teachers' salaries!

FWIW, many fewer teachers are killed at work than police officers. Both jobs are physically and emotionally taxing; both require training and education; both involve learning how to effectively manage people, individually or in a group and how to steer them the direction you want them to go. Both are designated as 'helpers' in our society. There are a lot of similarities.

Also, most police officers don't earn hundreds of thousands a year.

I looked up the average education level of police. Less than 10 percent have more than a high school diploma or GED. That's why I think we need police with at least an AD in law enforcement or something similar. So, it's obvious that most police officers aren't very educated at all, compared to teachers and nurses etc.

I also looked up salaries on numerous sites. The average is in the 40s to 60s, but the main reason why some are making a lot more than that is overtime and shift differentials. The average RN salary in Georgia is about 60K, but if you include overtime and shift differential, it can be a lot higher. Of course, it depends on which area of nursing you work in. Hospital nurses. usually make more than nurses who work in long term care or public health. School nurses in my city make pittance. I know this because I applied for a job as a school nurse once. It was over ten years ago, but the salary was about 25K. I'm comparing nursing, teaching and law enforcement because they are all important jobs that serve the public. Teaching is hard, but at least teachers get a lot more time off compared to most other professions. If teachers worked 12 months a year with just 4 weeks off, that would justify a very large increase in pay. I think that may be part of why it's difficult to get teacher's salaries substantially increased. Teachers in areas where there is lots of poverty and poor family support, certainly deserve more pay, imo.
 
Louisville has settled Breonna Taylor's wrongful death lawsuit - CNN
Multi-million settlement reached in Breonna Taylor lawsuit - Yahoo

From Yahoo, Louisville will pay a sizable sum of wergild, or in this case, wifgild.
The city of Louisville will pay millions to the mother of Breonna Taylor and reform police practices as part of a lawsuit settlement months after Taylor's slaying by police thrust the Black woman's name to the forefront of a national reckoning on race.

This has been all over the news this morning. Taylor was murdered by the police. She was an innocent woman and so it was easy for her family to get a decent settlement. Still, I'm a little bit surprised that it happened so quickly.
 
Bullshit. Policing does not make peaceful societies. Cooperation does. Police are supposed to be there for the small fraction of people who can't or won't cooperate with their fellow human beings. It's not because of police that millions upon millions of people drive safely on streets day after day. The tiny fraction of antisocial morons who purposely try to bring harm to others while driving are the only ones who need police interactions. The rest of us cooperate because we're not murderous psychopaths, not because we want to cause harm but stop ourselves because of fear of police.

But you need the police because of the antisocial types.

Stop being so scared of outgroups, Loren. You're contributing to a society that unjustly harms people because of it. You're a cement block on the feet of humanity in terms of equality and justice.

Also, you have erred and will continue to err on many a police brutality instance, not just in facts but in your inhumane views.

Quit thinking I'm scared of outgroups. You've already admitted that you're not evaluating the situations honestly.

Loren, read this:
https://www.theroot.com/a-judge-ask...black-peo-1845017462?utm_source=pocket-newtab
Of course, that could only mean that Black people commit much more crime, right?
Nope.
OK, then maybe Black people commit worse crimes.
That wasn’t it.
What they found is the criminal justice system is unequal on every level. Cops in the state are more likely to stop Black drivers. Police are more likely to search or investigate Black residents. Law enforcement agents charge Black suspects with infractions that carry worse penalties. Prosecutors are less likely to offer Black suspects plea bargains or pre-trial intervention. Judges sentence Black defendants to longer terms in prison. And get this: The average white felon in the Massachusetts Department of Corrections has committed a more severe crime than the average Black inmate.

Systemic racism is the problem that takes precedence.
 
NO. It's about NOT taking a side conclusively and it IS about making sure that the person without power is protected from abuse of power! Why is this fucking rocket science? Looking immediately to vilify the victim and excuse the police is exactly the mentality that erodes protection from abuse for all of us.

You are treating the side with power as guilty unless proven innocent and you bend over backwards to not find them innocent.

You'll get a much better picture of the world if you go with preponderance of the evidence.


This is bullshit and amounts to instigation of violence.
http://cjpp.law.harvard.edu/assets/Massachusetts-Racial-Disparity-Report-FINAL.pdf
 
But you need the police because of the antisocial types.



Quit thinking I'm scared of outgroups. You've already admitted that you're not evaluating the situations honestly.

Loren, read this:
https://www.theroot.com/a-judge-ask...black-peo-1845017462?utm_source=pocket-newtab
Of course, that could only mean that Black people commit much more crime, right?
Nope.
OK, then maybe Black people commit worse crimes.
That wasn’t it.
What they found is the criminal justice system is unequal on every level. Cops in the state are more likely to stop Black drivers. Police are more likely to search or investigate Black residents. Law enforcement agents charge Black suspects with infractions that carry worse penalties. Prosecutors are less likely to offer Black suspects plea bargains or pre-trial intervention. Judges sentence Black defendants to longer terms in prison. And get this: The average white felon in the Massachusetts Department of Corrections has committed a more severe crime than the average Black inmate.

Systemic racism is the problem that takes precedence.

1) I don't give a fuck what theroot says. It's not a credible source.

2) The crime for which we have the best data is murder. It's also pretty clear cut, you either killed somebody or you didn't. There's still a major racial disparity.
 
Loren, read this:
https://www.theroot.com/a-judge-ask...black-peo-1845017462?utm_source=pocket-newtab


Systemic racism is the problem that takes precedence.

1) I don't give a fuck what theroot says. It's not a credible source.

2) The crime for which we have the best data is murder. It's also pretty clear cut, you either killed somebody or you didn't. There's still a major racial disparity.
See testy? I told ya.

I hate being right about boot lickers all the time.
 
2) The crime for which we have the best data is murder. It's also pretty clear cut, you either killed somebody or you didn't. There's still a major racial disparity.

Many crime stats are freely accessible. Here’s crime data for the second half of 2019 in New York City. https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/do...planning/year-end-2019-enforcement-report.pdf

Black offenders far exceed any other group - and they have the highest victimization rate. Waving hands and spouting “systemic racism” does nothing to stop the carnage.
 
Loren, read this:
https://www.theroot.com/a-judge-ask...black-peo-1845017462?utm_source=pocket-newtab


Systemic racism is the problem that takes precedence.

1) I don't give a fuck what theroot says. It's not a credible source.

2) The crime for which we have the best data is murder. It's also pretty clear cut, you either killed somebody or you didn't. There's still a major racial disparity.

Holy fuck that was some goddamn nostradumus shit there, WT.
 
2) The crime for which we have the best data is murder. It's also pretty clear cut, you either killed somebody or you didn't. There's still a major racial disparity.

Many crime stats are freely accessible. Here’s crime data for the second half of 2019 in New York City. https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/do...planning/year-end-2019-enforcement-report.pdf

Black offenders far exceed any other group - and they have the highest victimization rate. Waving hands and spouting “systemic racism” does nothing to stop the carnage.
http://cjpp.law.harvard.edu/assets/Massachusetts-Racial-Disparity-Report-FINAL.pdf
 
2) The crime for which we have the best data is murder. It's also pretty clear cut, you either killed somebody or you didn't. There's still a major racial disparity.

Many crime stats are freely accessible. Here’s crime data for the second half of 2019 in New York City. https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/do...planning/year-end-2019-enforcement-report.pdf

Black offenders far exceed any other group - and they have the highest victimization rate. Waving hands and spouting “systemic racism” does nothing to stop the carnage.
http://cjpp.law.harvard.edu/assets/Massachusetts-Racial-Disparity-Report-FINAL.pdf

Your explanation for why black offenders are overly represented is what?
 
Well, this is a good place to start
  • It’s not that Black people are criminals: It’s that the cops think Black people are criminals: For instance, despite making up only 24 percent of Boston’s population, Black people made up 63 percent of the civilians who were interrogated, stopped, frisked or searched by the BPD between 2007 and 2010. According to the researchers, this suggests “that the disparity in searches was more consistent with racial bias than with differences in criminal conduct.”
  • Black suspects don’t get bail: The average bail is slightly higher in cases involving Black defendants. Furthermore, more Black and Latinx defendants are detained without bail as compared to white defendants.
  • Black people are charged with higher offenses: But curiously, when they get to court, Black defendants are convicted of charges roughly equal in seriousness to their White counterparts despite facing more serious initial charges.
  • There are actually two separate systems: The study notes that prosecutors are more likely to exercise their discretion to send Black and Latinx people “to Superior Court where the available sentences are longer.”
  • And separate sentences: If you’re Black and charged with crimes carrying a mandatory minimum, you are substantially more likely to be incarcerated and receive a longer sentence.
  • Especially if they find drugs or guns on you: Black and Latinx people charged with drug offenses and weapons offenses are more likely to be incarcerated and receive longer incarceration sentences than white people charged with similar offenses
  • Sentencing length: The average Black person’s sentence is 168 days longer than a sentence for a white person. Even when the researchers controlled for criminal history, jurisdiction, and neighborhood, they concluded: “[R]acial disparities in sentence length cannot solely be explained by the contextual factors that we consider and permeate the entire criminal justice process.”
The researchers even looked at poverty rates, the family structures of convicted felons and the neighborhoods they lived in. They eventually decided that the only reasonable explanation that explained the disparities was racism.
One of the more interesting parts of the report juxtaposed people who possessed illegal firearms with people arrested for operating a vehicle under the influence (OUI). They reasoned that both acts are potentially dangerous but statistics show that driving under the influence actually causes much more harm to the public than simply carrying an unlicensed firearm. But, because white people make up 82 percent of people who are convicted of OUI, the state considers operating under the influence as a “public health problem,” so the charge is often resolved without a felony conviction. In fact, 77 percent of the people who don’t end up with a felony conviction after admitting that they operated a vehicle under the influence are white.
However, despite Black defendants making up 16.4 percent of firearm cases in 2012, 46 percent of the people convicted of a firearm offense was Black. And 70.3 percent of the time, the Black person’s only offense was carrying a firearm without a license.
 
Well, this is a good place to start
  • It’s not that Black people are criminals: It’s that the cops think Black people are criminals: For instance, despite making up only 24 percent of Boston’s population, Black people made up 63 percent of the civilians who were interrogated, stopped, frisked or searched by the BPD between 2007 and 2010. According to the researchers, this suggests “that the disparity in searches was more consistent with racial bias than with differences in criminal conduct.”
  • Black suspects don’t get bail: The average bail is slightly higher in cases involving Black defendants. Furthermore, more Black and Latinx defendants are detained without bail as compared to white defendants.
  • Black people are charged with higher offenses: But curiously, when they get to court, Black defendants are convicted of charges roughly equal in seriousness to their White counterparts despite facing more serious initial charges.
  • There are actually two separate systems: The study notes that prosecutors are more likely to exercise their discretion to send Black and Latinx people “to Superior Court where the available sentences are longer.”
  • And separate sentences: If you’re Black and charged with crimes carrying a mandatory minimum, you are substantially more likely to be incarcerated and receive a longer sentence.
  • Especially if they find drugs or guns on you: Black and Latinx people charged with drug offenses and weapons offenses are more likely to be incarcerated and receive longer incarceration sentences than white people charged with similar offenses
  • Sentencing length: The average Black person’s sentence is 168 days longer than a sentence for a white person. Even when the researchers controlled for criminal history, jurisdiction, and neighborhood, they concluded: “[R]acial disparities in sentence length cannot solely be explained by the contextual factors that we consider and permeate the entire criminal justice process.”
The researchers even looked at poverty rates, the family structures of convicted felons and the neighborhoods they lived in. They eventually decided that the only reasonable explanation that explained the disparities was racism.
One of the more interesting parts of the report juxtaposed people who possessed illegal firearms with people arrested for operating a vehicle under the influence (OUI). They reasoned that both acts are potentially dangerous but statistics show that driving under the influence actually causes much more harm to the public than simply carrying an unlicensed firearm. But, because white people make up 82 percent of people who are convicted of OUI, the state considers operating under the influence as a “public health problem,” so the charge is often resolved without a felony conviction. In fact, 77 percent of the people who don’t end up with a felony conviction after admitting that they operated a vehicle under the influence are white.
However, despite Black defendants making up 16.4 percent of firearm cases in 2012, 46 percent of the people convicted of a firearm offense was Black. And 70.3 percent of the time, the Black person’s only offense was carrying a firearm without a license.

Okay, is the thought here that whites and Asians are just as homicidal as blacks but the system just ignores their murders and violent assaults?
 
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