Police Misconduct Catch All Thread

[Jimmy Higgins]

You haven't explained how to determine whether a threat is actual. I agree that killing someone is one method to determine a threat is actual but it seems a bit excessive to me. But, it you had read my actual response, you'd have seen that there was at least a hint - acting in a manner that is an unmistakable threat.

In the case of Tamir Rice, the police made no attempt to determine whether there was an actual threat or not.

Are you a Republican? Because you're asking me to answer your problem. You are expecting the police to reliably figure out who is an actual threat but are presenting no realistic method by which they can do so.

How daft! Are they gagged, blindfolded, and have ear plugs? In the Tamir Rice case there was no one else around. There was no threat to the public. And the police were on site for such a short period of time, a second or two before killing Tamir Rice, that they couldn't even consider if Rice was a threat to them... or if Rice had anything remotely like a gun on him.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You are expecting the police to reliably figure out who is an actual threat but are presenting no realistic method by which they can do so.

Dang. I'm trying not to get involved in this crap again.
Oh well.

Somebody bought Tamir Rice an extremely dangerous toy. Somebody made it even more dangerous by taping over the orange tip it came with. Somebody let him take it to the park.

The toy wasn't a threat to anyone. Using it at Tamir Rice did wasn't wise, but he also wasn't even a teen yet... but he did know he couldn't harm much more than a fly with it... using as a blunt instrument.

The police didn't show up at that park on a whim. They came as a response to 911 calls reporting an armed man in the park. The cops didn't know what else was going on.

So, person calls, alleges there is a person in park with what appears to be a gun and that it could be a toy (the toy part doesn't make it to the officers).

Police drive up and kill first person they run into at park after being on site for a second or two.

I suppose we should be happy they at least killed the kid with the toy, instead of some random stranger that happened to be there instead. The officers arrived on-site, with absolutely no idea what was going, who had what, only maybe knowing that there wasn't anyone else around to be in danger.

Everyone important agrees that the cop used poor judgment. But pretending that the cop executed Rice for being black is worse than ridiculous.

Had Tamir Rice been white, the officers probably walk up and talk to him. (Dylan Roof was arrested in a relaxed atmosphere and he massacred a church!) No one claims the cops executed Rice because he was black, as far as I can tell. But Rice needlessly died and in part, the color of his skin was likely a contributing reason, likely not because of racism but because of bias.

 

[Toni]

You are expecting the police to reliably figure out who is an actual threat but are presenting no realistic method by which they can do so.

Dang. I'm trying not to get involved in this crap again.
Oh well.

Somebody bought Tamir Rice an extremely dangerous toy. Somebody made it even more dangerous by taping over the orange tip it came with. Somebody let him take it to the park.

The police didn't show up at that park on a whim. They came as a response to 911 calls reporting an armed man in the park. The cops didn't know what else was going on.
Everyone important agrees that the cop used poor judgment. But pretending that the cop executed Rice for being black is worse than ridiculous.
Tom

This is not true: none of it.

Tamir Rice borrowed the toy from a friend.

Someone called the police to report that a CHILD had what appeared to be a toy gun in the park but some people were uncomfortable.

The police were told some version of that, and upon seeing Tamir Rice began firing upon him. They did not even a certain if this was the same person called about. They were so stupid and scared they could not receive that this was a child, something that is very apparent on the video.

Cowards think it is better to kill a black child for the sun of being tall for his age and playing with a toy without the orange tip on it than to pause a beat and assess the situation.

 

[TomC]

Cowards think it is better to kill a black child for the sun of being tall for his age and playing with a toy without the orange tip on it than to pause a beat and assess the situation.

@ZiprHead
This is what I'm talking about.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

If you’re a cop aching to shoot somebody, all you have to do is manufacture a deadly threat by, say, standing in front of a running car.
Seems to me like some of the police departments in this country are 80-90% bad apples.

 

[TomC]

If you’re a cop aching to shoot somebody, all you have to do is manufacture a deadly threat by, say, standing in front of a running car.
Seems to me like some of the police departments in this country are 80-90% bad apples.

@ZiprHead
Like I said...
Tom

 

[Elixir]

If you’re a cop aching to shoot somebody, all you have to do is manufacture a deadly threat by, say, standing in front of a running car.
Seems to me like some of the police departments in this country are 80-90% bad apples.

@ZiprHead
Like I said...
Tom

Like you said what? Just exactly how does this sort of criticism of cops bother you?

American cops have hard jobs and a lot of power. They’re underpaid, overworked, undertrained and inadequately screened for competence. That’s how you end up with 85% bad apples.

 

[TomC]

Just exactly how does this sort of criticism of cops bother you?

The degree to which people use cops as scapegoats. Blame them for every bad thing that happens in a citizen/cop interaction. Ignore the 10,000,000 cop/citizen interactions that don't result in violence, and the 900 justifiable ones that do, and get all ragey about the 100 ones that might be bad cops but might be misreported...
And get rid of the good cops by lumping them in. And then get out in the streets chanting "Dead Cops!"

All that, for starters.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Just exactly how does this sort of criticism of cops bother you?

The degree to which people use cops as scapegoats. Blame them for every bad thing that happens in a citizen/cop interaction. Ignore the 10,000,000 cop/citizen interactions that don't result in violence, and the 900 justifiable ones that do, and get all ragey about the 100 ones that might be bad cops but might be misreported...
And get rid of the good cops by lumping them in. And then get out in the streets chanting "Dead Cops!"

All that, for starters.
Tom

It is very very difficult to not find blame when two police officers roar up on a child playing in the park and within 2-3 seconds, fire their weapons at the same child. With no—absolutely ZERO reports of shots fired.

If you want to talk about scapegoating, then let’s dig into the history of the policing of in neighborhoods predominately inhabited by black and brown people.

 

[TomC]

It is very very difficult to not find blame when two police officers roar up on a child playing in the park and within 2-3 seconds, fire their weapons at the same child. With no—absolutely ZERO reports of shots fired.

Like I said @ZiprHead
Some people cannot find any blame except the cops.
Tom

 

[Toni]

It is very very difficult to not find blame when two police officers roar up on a child playing in the park and within 2-3 seconds, fire their weapons at the same child. With no—absolutely ZERO reports of shots fired.

Like I said @ZiprHead
Some people cannot find any blame except the cops.
Tom

Get back to me when you have something to say.

 

[laughing dog]

I expect police to refrain from shooting someone until they are under an actual threat. Tamir Rice posed no actual threat EVEN IF HE HAD A REAL FIREARM. He did not "pull it out" nor did he aim it at the police. Those trigger happy cowards jumped out of their vehicle, hid behind it, shouted drop the gun and immediately started firing before any human being could have responded to their command.

You still haven't explained how to determine that a threat is actual.

You haven't explained how to determine whether a threat is actual. I agree that killing someone is one method to determine a threat is actual but it seems a bit excessive to me. But, it you had read my actual response, you'd have seen that there was at least a hint - acting in a manner that is an unmistakable threat.

In the case of Tamir Rice, the police made no attempt to determine whether there was an actual threat or not.

Are you a Republican? Because you're asking me to answer your problem. You are expecting the police to reliably figure out who is an actual threat but are presenting no realistic method by which they can do so.

Stop babbling straw men and misrepresenting the content of my posts. Apparently the term “Unmistakable threat” is a less reliable assessment of threat in your view than “kill anyone who makes me wet my shorts”. I think you are very wrong.

 

[laughing dog]

It is very very difficult to not find blame when two police officers roar up on a child playing in the park and within 2-3 seconds, fire their weapons at the same child. With no—absolutely ZERO reports of shots fired.

Like I said @ZiprHead
Some people cannot find any blame except the cops.
Tom

And some people will say anything to deflect any blame on officers who kill unarmed civilians.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is very very difficult to not find blame when two police officers roar up on a child playing in the park and within 2-3 seconds, fire their weapons at the same child. With no—absolutely ZERO reports of shots fired.

Like I said @ZiprHead
Some people cannot find any blame except the cops.
Tom

Nothing Tamir Rice did could be justification to blame his killing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is very very difficult to not find blame when two police officers roar up on a child playing in the park and within 2-3 seconds, fire their weapons at the same child. With no—absolutely ZERO reports of shots fired.

Like I said @ZiprHead
Some people cannot find any blame except the cops.
Tom

And some people will say anything to deflect any blame on officers who kill unarmed civilians.

TomC noted the officer showed bad judgment. For whatever reason he wants to put some blame on the victim too.

 

[TomC]

TomC noted the officer showed bad judgment. For whatever reason he wants to put some blame on the victim too.

True.
But not much. He was 14, I don't expect kids to be responsible for much.
He had parents. That's how it works.

They're really responsible for Tamir's behavior. It was extremely dangerous and he was killed by a cop who knew far less about the situation.

Where were they when their child was in such danger?
Tom

 

[Rhea]

In an interaction between a 14yo and a grown cop, one of those is trained, adult, in a car and approaching. Oh, and getting paid. The other is untrained, 14, sitting on a picnic table and being approached. Oh and getting shot in 5 seconds.


Loren, how OBVIOUS is it that the cops could have stopped a little ways away to find out whether this was the kid, and whether he looked aggressive? You want to know how they can tell if a situation is dangerous? By pausing briefly in their approach to ATTEMPT to assess the situation. By not lying in search warrants. By checking house numbers. By listening to attending caregivers.

BY NOT COVERING UP FOR EACH OTHER.

 

[laughing dog]

TomC noted the officer showed bad judgment. For whatever reason he wants to put some blame on the victim too.

True.
But not much. He was 14, I don't expect kids to be responsible for much.
He had parents. That's how it works.

They're really responsible for Tamir's behavior. It was extremely dangerous and he was killed by a cop who knew far less about the situation.

Where were they when their child was in such danger?
Tom

Tamil Rice’s was not extremely dangerous except in the eyes of trigger happy police officers.

Any responsibility laid at the feet of Tamir Rice’s parents ought is minuscule in comparison to that of the two officers.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

TomC noted the officer showed bad judgment. For whatever reason he wants to put some blame on the victim too.

True.
But not much.

That is impossible to parse meaning from.

He was 14, I don't expect kids to be responsible for much.

Tamir was 12.

He had parents. That's how it works.

They're really responsible for Tamir's behavior. It was extremely dangerous and he was killed by a cop who knew far less about the situation.

Playing with a toy gun is not "extremely dangerous". Walking into a bank, pretending its real and sticking the place up is "extremely dangerous". Waving a fake gun, shouting threats to police officers is pretty dangerous. Tamir just played with a toy gun... at a park.

Where were they when their child was in such danger?

So now we are dropping this shit on his parents. Boy playing with a toy gun, shot by officer who had literally just arrived on site... where are his parents? What, you wanted them shot too? They put his sister in the back of the cop car... wait check that... she was thrown to the ground, handcuffed, then put in the back of the police car while her brother bled to death. But where were the parents when the officers were royally fucking up and killing their son and detaining their daughter.

The kids are supposed to be safe when the cops are around.

 

[TomC]

Sorry I said anything that upset y'all