Police Misconduct Catch All Thread

[Rhea]

Is it safe police procedure to stand in front of a car in which the person you are trying to arrest is at the wheel?

I know that in racing,one is taught firmly and repeatedly that one should NEVER stand in front of a car, because one would be choosing to put oneself in harms way and it would be monumentally, achingly stupid to do such a risky thing.

So we have a person who is monumentally, achingly stupid, that is given a badge and a gun.

 

[robnisch]

Bilby's idea for what the US should do with police departments may be impractical, but, we need to do something. I propose a federal standard for training and certification. We have a hodgepodge of training if any at all in a lot of small towns and counties. Just look at Coffee City TX.

All new officers in Alaska must go to the state academy.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Tamir Rice's actions appeared to be a serious threat. Yes, the weapon was not real but weapons are always assumed real until proven otherwise. You are expecting the cops to act on knowledge they didn't have.

We are expecting the police to put even a modicum of effort into obtaining that knowledge. Especially when someone’s life is on the line. It was clear in this case that they did not do so. They did not fulfill their duty to the people they are sworn to protect.

 

[Toni]

Tamir Rice's actions appeared to be a serious threat. Yes, the weapon was not real but weapons are always assumed real until proven otherwise. You are expecting the cops to act on knowledge they didn't have.

We are expecting the police to put even a modicum of effort into obtaining that knowledge. Especially when someone’s life is on the line. It was clear in this case that they did not do so. They did not fulfill their duty to the people they are sworn to protect.

Yes. But the thing is, I’ve watched the video: it was obvious that Tamir Ruce was a child, and was no threat. His body language showed he was trying to do what was asked.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Loren, your arguments all boil down to "Police should not be expected to risk their lives, in the protection of citizens lawful rights".

Do you really believe this?

What do you think a police officer's job actually is, if not to defend citizens, even when this entails some degree of risk to themselves?

You're expecting the police to take insane risks.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I expect police to refrain from shooting someone until they are under an actual threat. Tamir Rice posed no actual threat EVEN IF HE HAD A REAL FIREARM. He did not "pull it out" nor did he aim it at the police. Those trigger happy cowards jumped out of their vehicle, hid behind it, shouted drop the gun and immediately started firing before any human being could have responded to their command.

You still haven't explained how to determine that a threat is actual.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is it safe police procedure to stand in front of a car in which the person you are trying to arrest is at the wheel?

I know that in racing,one is taught firmly and repeatedly that one should NEVER stand in front of a car, because one would be choosing to put oneself in harms way and it would be monumentally, achingly stupid to do such a risky thing.

So we have a person who is monumentally, achingly stupid, that is given a badge and a gun.

The police are supposed to detain criminals.

 

[laughing dog]

Loren, your arguments all boil down to "Police should not be expected to risk their lives, in the protection of citizens lawful rights".

Do you really believe this?

What do you think a police officer's job actually is, if not to defend citizens, even when this entails some degree of risk to themselves?

You're expecting the police to take insane risks.

You mean like standing in front of a car of a suspect?

 

[laughing dog]

I expect police to refrain from shooting someone until they are under an actual threat. Tamir Rice posed no actual threat EVEN IF HE HAD A REAL FIREARM. He did not "pull it out" nor did he aim it at the police. Those trigger happy cowards jumped out of their vehicle, hid behind it, shouted drop the gun and immediately started firing before any human being could have responded to their command.

You still haven't explained how to determine that a threat is actual.

You haven't explained how to determine whether a threat is actual. I agree that killing someone is one method to determine a threat is actual but it seems a bit excessive to me. But, it you had read my actual response, you'd have seen that there was at least a hint - acting in a manner that is an unmistakable threat.

In the case of Tamir Rice, the police made no attempt to determine whether there was an actual threat or not.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I expect police to refrain from shooting someone until they are under an actual threat. Tamir Rice posed no actual threat EVEN IF HE HAD A REAL FIREARM. He did not "pull it out" nor did he aim it at the police. Those trigger happy cowards jumped out of their vehicle, hid behind it, shouted drop the gun and immediately started firing before any human being could have responded to their command.

You still haven't explained how to determine that a threat is actual.

This is something they should teach at cop school. If they don’t then reforms are definitely necessary.

 

[bilby]

Loren, your arguments all boil down to "Police should not be expected to risk their lives, in the protection of citizens lawful rights".

Do you really believe this?

What do you think a police officer's job actually is, if not to defend citizens, even when this entails some degree of risk to themselves?

You're expecting the police to take insane risks.

You're expecting the police not to take any risks at all.

 

[bilby]

Is it safe police procedure to stand in front of a car in which the person you are trying to arrest is at the wheel?

I know that in racing,one is taught firmly and repeatedly that one should NEVER stand in front of a car, because one would be choosing to put oneself in harms way and it would be monumentally, achingly stupid to do such a risky thing.

So we have a person who is monumentally, achingly stupid, that is given a badge and a gun.

The police are supposed to detain criminals.

NO!

The police are supposed to detain suspects. Whether or not they are criminals is for the court, not the police, to decide.

And this decision requires that the suspect be permitted to defend themselves in court. Which requires that they be alive.

 

[marc]

Is it safe police procedure to stand in front of a car in which the person you are trying to arrest is at the wheel?

I know that in racing,one is taught firmly and repeatedly that one should NEVER stand in front of a car, because one would be choosing to put oneself in harms way and it would be monumentally, achingly stupid to do such a risky thing.

So we have a person who is monumentally, achingly stupid, that is given a badge and a gun.

The police are supposed to detain criminals.

NO!

The police are supposed to detain suspects. Whether or not they are criminals is for the court, not the police, to decide.

And this decision requires that the suspect be permitted to defend themselves in court. Which requires that they be alive.

And why do police detain suspects? Oh, isn't it to protect citizens from the actions of the criminals? So which is the bigger threat to citizens, the guy who might have shoplifted, or the police who will shoot the citizen because they are holding something that might look like a gun to them?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So add car theft and resisting with or without violence to the shoplifting charge. The killing is not remotely justified. She was not a mortal threat to the cops or the public by any stretch. Cop standing in front of the car with weapon drawn and shouting obscenities is not an appropriate initial response. It is bordering on malicious escalation.

If the car is stolen they don't know who it is.

And is it an escalation? She's the one who got in the car and started it. He blocked her escape, she chose attempted murder as a response to being blocked in.

They didn't want her to leave a cop car in front of her car would have been a much better tactical option.

She fucked up. She shouldn't be dead. Deadly force was not necessary.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You're trying to confuse the situation by bringing up irrelevant meanings.

Naw, that’s your MO. (See below).

Drawing a gun in an inappropriate situations is acting in a threatening manner. Typically it's enough for a brandishing a firearm charge.

You are bringing up irrelevant meanings. The only person in that situation who was in danger was Tamir Rice from two trigger happy cowards.

All you are proving is that you won't actually address the point.

Tamir Rice's actions appeared to be a serious threat.

The officers were not on scene remotely long enough to come to that or any conclusion. They literally raced on site, officer got out of the car, and began shooting in a second or two. I don't think Rice could have done anything that'd save his life. He didn't have enough time to even react.

Yes, the weapon was not real but weapons are always assumed real until proven otherwise.

They couldn't have KNOWN he had anything in his possession. That takes actually accessing the site.

You are expecting the cops to act on knowledge they didn't have.

Well, the officer went guns blazing without confirming anything other than kid at the park.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Loren, your arguments all boil down to "Police should not be expected to risk their lives, in the protection of citizens lawful rights".

Do you really believe this?

What do you think a police officer's job actually is, if not to defend citizens, even when this entails some degree of risk to themselves?

You're expecting the police to take insane risks.

You're expecting the police not to take any risks at all.

If she pulls out and away with stolen alcohol, our civilization collapses the next day.

The good news is she did steal the alcohol. Imagine if they shot a pregnant woman who hadn't stolen anything?!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I expect police to refrain from shooting someone until they are under an actual threat. Tamir Rice posed no actual threat EVEN IF HE HAD A REAL FIREARM. He did not "pull it out" nor did he aim it at the police. Those trigger happy cowards jumped out of their vehicle, hid behind it, shouted drop the gun and immediately started firing before any human being could have responded to their command.

You still haven't explained how to determine that a threat is actual.

You haven't explained how to determine whether a threat is actual. I agree that killing someone is one method to determine a threat is actual but it seems a bit excessive to me. But, it you had read my actual response, you'd have seen that there was at least a hint - acting in a manner that is an unmistakable threat.

In the case of Tamir Rice, the police made no attempt to determine whether there was an actual threat or not.

Are you a Republican? Because you're asking me to answer your problem. You are expecting the police to reliably figure out who is an actual threat but are presenting no realistic method by which they can do so.

 

[ZiprHead]

I expect police to refrain from shooting someone until they are under an actual threat. Tamir Rice posed no actual threat EVEN IF HE HAD A REAL FIREARM. He did not "pull it out" nor did he aim it at the police. Those trigger happy cowards jumped out of their vehicle, hid behind it, shouted drop the gun and immediately started firing before any human being could have responded to their command.

You still haven't explained how to determine that a threat is actual.

You haven't explained how to determine whether a threat is actual. I agree that killing someone is one method to determine a threat is actual but it seems a bit excessive to me. But, it you had read my actual response, you'd have seen that there was at least a hint - acting in a manner that is an unmistakable threat.

In the case of Tamir Rice, the police made no attempt to determine whether there was an actual threat or not.

Are you a Republican? Because you're asking me to answer your problem. You are expecting the police to reliably figure out who is an actual threat but are presenting no realistic method by which they can do so.

Really??? They couldn't stay back aways and observe TR from a distance? Do you really not posess an imagination?

 

[TomC]

You are expecting the police to reliably figure out who is an actual threat but are presenting no realistic method by which they can do so.

Dang. I'm trying not to get involved in this crap again.
Oh well.

Somebody bought Tamir Rice an extremely dangerous toy. Somebody made it even more dangerous by taping over the orange tip it came with. Somebody let him take it to the park.

The police didn't show up at that park on a whim. They came as a response to 911 calls reporting an armed man in the park. The cops didn't know what else was going on.
Everyone important agrees that the cop used poor judgment. But pretending that the cop executed Rice for being black is worse than ridiculous.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

But pretending that the cop executed Rice for being black is worse than ridiculous.

Can you point out where someone is doing that?