Police Misconduct Catch All Thread

[ZiprHead]

Sounds like straight up murder to me.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Murder, to me, implies intent to kill. I'd say negligent manslaughter. Anyone who expects a person that is asleep and expects them to obey orders shouted to them when they immediately wake up... shouldn't be a police officer or have access and legal authority to use a gun.

Often in cases, they result from people not do what the Police are unintelligibly barking at them to do. In this case, the guy was likely not in a state to immediately be able to comprehend what was happening for a number of moments... and he is shot before he can get a grip on the situation.

 

[Patooka]

Often in cases, they result from people not do what the Police are unintelligibly barking at them to do.

Or one cop screams, "Don't move!" whilst another says , "Hands up!". Basic fucking training and strict guidelines can fix that but apparently that's exactly the same as defunding the police. And that doesn't even factor auditory exclusion or how a lot of US cops aren't even taught time, distance and cover.

 

[Derec]

This Donovan Lewis seems like a great guy.

 

[Patooka]

This Donovan Lewis seems like a great guy.

Clearly he deserved to die then. The cops did nothing wrong.

 

[Gospel]

Allegations are all we need to justify shooting some black men on site. For others we simply need prior charges.

This does not mean that I'm saying every death of a black man at the hands of police was not justified. But it damn sure will be perceived that I'm claiming such by some folk.

 

[Rhea]

Warning, disturbing footage of police misconduct.

Holy fuck. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THOSE COPS AND THE DEPARTMENT THAT KEEPS THEM????

And you can see the cops shouting at the person who recorded their brutality. Brutality.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This Donovan Lewis seems like a great guy.

I don't care if he was Donald Trump. An officer should be traine...

Okay, if it is anyone else but Donald Trump, an officer should be trained to manage situations. Criminals get tried in courts and convicted of crimes. They don't get shot by the police when they are in no mental state to obey orders due to their lucid state of mind after having been woken up.

And every time this happens, we get this "but they bad" response. Yeah... don't care. All people have equal protection, even criminals. And people shouldn't be killed by a police officer because they are waking up.

 

[atrib]

This Donovan Lewis seems like a great guy.

Certainly no greater than the recklessly homicidal cop who ended his life for no apparent reason. Did you do any research on the history of said homicidal cop? Murder trumps alleged assault, but not in your book, at least not when the victim is black.

[Removed]

 

[bilby]

This Donovan Lewis seems like a great guy.

Clearly he deserved to die then. The cops did nothing wrong.

I think the important lesson Derec wants to take from this is "It couldn't happen to Derec".

Identifying that the victim is a "great guy", while Derec has no such background, makes Derec feel invulnerable to such police misconduct. And thereby justified in dismissing it as something he needs to concern himself about.

This, of course, is nonsense; If police shoot people without just cause, that puts us all at risk of being shot by the police.

Except Derec, obviously. He's not at any risk at all, because he's never done anything illegal, met anyone who did something illegal once, lived near to or at a similar address to someone who did something illegal once, or been black.

 

[Patooka]

This Donovan Lewis seems like a great guy.

I don't care if he was Donald Trump. An officer should be traine...

Okay, if it is anyone else but Donald Trump, an officer should be trained to manage situations. Criminals get tried in courts and convicted of crimes. They don't get shot by the police when they are in no mental state to obey orders due to their lucid state of mind after having been woken up.

And every time this happens, we get this "but they bad" response. Yeah... don't care. All people have equal protection, even criminals. And people shouldn't be killed by a police officer because they are waking up.

Pretty much. And to drill the point home for the nth fucking time, they are called police, not impromptu executioners.

The depressing bit is that we all know in a few days, weeks, no longer than a couple of months there is going to be yet another example of this with yet another, "but he bad" bullshit argument.

I can't believe we are still debating whether every crime warrants a death sentence.

 

[Derec]

And every time this happens, we get this "but they bad" response. Yeah... don't care. All people have equal protection, even criminals. And people shouldn't be killed by a police officer because they are waking up.

Of course. But neither should they be glorified, like these #BLM heroes usually are.

My post was not about whether the shooting was justified or not, and what the proper charge would be if not. We do not know enough to make that judgement.

My post was about giving some background before the inevitable articles about what great guy he was and before CNN et al start using his high school graduation photos or photos of him holding an infant, as they are wont to do in cases of black people killed by police.

 

[Derec]

Certainly no greater than the recklessly homicidal cop who ended his life for no apparent reason.

There certainly was a reason to serve a warrant. Mistakes happen, if indeed investigation concludes that it was a mistake.

Did you do any research on the history of said homicidal cop?

I did not find anything. Do you have anything?

Murder trumps alleged assault, but not in your book, at least not when the victim is black.

It certainly wasn't murder, regardless of the skin color of the decedent.
The perp was wanted for violent felonies and gun charges. So it was justified to serve a felony warrant.
If he had no weapon in his hands he should not have been shot, but when I can understand how the mistake would have happened - you have a perp rightly considered armed and dangerous who is making a sudden move with something in his hands. We know some people sleep with guns on their person or in close proximity - see the case of Amir Locke.

[removed for consistency]

 

[Derec]

I think the important lesson Derec wants to take from this is "It couldn't happen to Derec".

Damn right. There is no reason for me to be a target of a violent felony warrant.

This, of course, is nonsense; If police shoot people without just cause, that puts us all at risk of being shot by the police.

At most, this was a mistake. Not a deliberate action to shoot somebody without just cause.
And such mistakes happen much more often when police perceive that there is a danger.
It is not a coincidence that police shootings, even those that were not justified (like say Daunte Wright) most often happen to people with long rap sheets and/or serious warrants.

 

[Derec]

Pretty much. And to drill the point home for the nth fucking time, they are called police, not impromptu executioners.

Let's get terms clear here. It was not an execution. Executions happen when somebody is in custody. Shooting somebody whom you are trying to apprehend and perceive (rightly or wrongly) to have a weapon is not an execution. It may be a crime, or a mistake that does not rise to a level of a criminal offense, or completely justified, but unless the cops had the perp in custody and decided to shoot him anyway, it is not an execution.

"but he bad" bullshit argument.

It's not bullshit. It's a necessary corrective to the "he a good boy" hagiographies that media likes to spin in these cases.

I can't believe we are still debating whether every crime warrants a death sentence.

That's what we call a straw man. Nobody is arguing that "every crime warrants a death sentence".

 

[laughing dog]

Police shoot man while he was hugging his aunt at his father’s funeral. No picture of son who was killed by police but father was white.

Given that CNN and other MSM are not running his photo holding an out-of-wedlock child or an old photo of him when he was 15, it is pretty safe to assume he was white.

Well, if one has to use racist stereotypes to make assumptions, then yes. In this case, the victim - Mr. Owens - was white (this link - WV police shoot white fugitive - has a photograph of Mr. Owens).

 

[laughing dog]

Pretty much. And to drill the point home for the nth fucking time, they are called police, not impromptu executioners.

Let's get terms clear here. It was not an execution. Executions happen when somebody is in custody. Shooting somebody whom you are trying to apprehend and perceive (rightly or wrongly) to have a weapon is not an execution. It may be a crime, or a mistake that does not rise to a level of a criminal offense, or completely justified, but unless the cops had the perp in custody and decided to shoot him anyway, it is not an execution.

Nonsense - For example, if the police did not have him in custody but had already made up their minds to kill him, it is an execution: custody has nothing to do with it.

"but he bad" bullshit argument.

It's not bullshit. It's a necessary corrective to the "he a good boy" hagiographies that media likes to spin in these cases.

Why do you feel it is a necessary corrective in a discussion where the "corrective" is irrelevant to the issue?

I can't believe we are still debating whether every crime warrants a death sentence.

That's what we call a straw man. Nobody is arguing that "every crime warrants a death sentence".

True, but the kneejerk defense of the killing by the police along with the smearing of the victim certainly can lead a regular reader to that rational conclusion.

 

[Derec]

Nonsense - For example, if the police did not have him in custody but had already made up their minds to kill him, it is an execution: custody has nothing to do with it.

No. That would be murder, but not an execution. An execution implies that the person is under your control.

Why do you feel it is a necessary corrective in a discussion where the "corrective" is irrelevant to the issue?

I think it is very much relevant.

True, but the kneejerk defense of the killing by the police along with the smearing of the victim certainly can lead a regular reader to that rational conclusion.

I am not defending the killing. Saying that it is not an execution or a murder is not defending the killing. It probably is a mistake in the heat of trying to apprehend a dangerous perp.
That said, why are you and others so opposed to having the background of the perp be known?

 

[Toni]

Pretty much. And to drill the point home for the nth fucking time, they are called police, not impromptu executioners.

Let's get terms clear here. It was not an execution. Executions happen when somebody is in custody. Shooting somebody whom you are trying to apprehend and perceive (rightly or wrongly) to have a weapon is not an execution. It may be a crime, or a mistake that does not rise to a level of a criminal offense, or completely justified, but unless the cops had the perp in custody and decided to shoot him anyway, it is not an execution.

"but he bad" bullshit argument.

It's not bullshit. It's a necessary corrective to the "he a good boy" hagiographies that media likes to spin in these cases.

I can't believe we are still debating whether every crime warrants a death sentence.

That's what we call a straw man. Nobody is arguing that "every crime warrants a death sentence".

Really? Because it seems that the police executed him to save themselves the trouble of arresting him.

Now, if he had just shot up a school or concert or mall or something like that, I'd say that they were possibly justified, although they could have easily killed his aunt or someone else.

 

[Derec]

Well, if one has to use racist stereotypes to make assumptions, then yes.

The mainstream media is treating white and black perps differently. So if you want to call out racism, that would be it.

In this case, the victim - Mr. Owens - was white (this link - WV police shoot white fugitive - has a photograph of Mr. Owens).

Yes, it has a photo of Owens at court, wearing his county issued orange jumpsuit. They don't do that for blacks shot by police. Then it's photos with infants or similar flattering ones.
Take Daunte Wright. His case had zero to do with his reproductive status. So why do CNN and other "liberal" media outlets choose photos of him holding a child? Rather than a photo of him holding a gun, which is relevant to the gun charges he had a warrant for?