Racism And Kamala Harris

[TomC]

I missed the"Pence is a DEI pick" and "Biden is a DEI pick" threads. Anyone got a link?

I don't know about threads, but in an important way I would say that they both were. Like VP picks have been for years, they both balance the ticket's demographics.

Picking an old white dude helped balance the black youngster aspect of Obama. Biden also filled some gaping holes in Obama's presidential resume. He was a long time Washington insider and had big foreign policy experience.

Trump desperately needed the Evangelical Christian community, with whom he had huge negatives. Mike "The Christian" Pence had tons of such credibility.

Biden was yet another old white dude. Adding a brownish female, who was already accomplished, helped him out a lot.

DEI and "balancing demographics" are pretty much the same thing at that level.
Tom

 

[Harry Bosch]

There really are only two ways to "migrant invasion". Deportation doesn't stop the "flood", it just changes the faces. Either kill them as they try to enter or make the USA a shittier hole than the one they are trying to escape.

There's another way to stop illegal immigrants. Give as many green cards as we're willing to give jobs. That's the heart of the issue, American people will give millions more jobs than documents.
Tom

I got another idea. Owning a business is a privilege like driving a car, not a right. If you can't play by the rules you don't get to own one.

If you hire illegals the first time is a big fine, the second time an even bigger fine. Third time the government takes your business away from you. If law enforcement dealing with illegals can tell who is illegal or not and deport them then the government could come up with a way for a business to tell who has the legal right to work here or not.

I'll bet that Tom's point is that migrant come to America to mostly earn money to support their families. Give them a job with a temp visa, and they'll most likely return to their home. We need the employment; they need the jobs for their family. Win win.

 

[TomC]

I'll bet that Tom's point is that migrant come to America to mostly earn money to support their families. Give them a job with a temp visa, and they'll most likely return to their home. We need the employment; they need the jobs for their family. Win win.

There's a bunch more things that would become possible.
Two biggies are the ability to vet them a bit, and to prioritize them.

I'm all about bringing in solid immigrants. I'd prefer the kind who want to be a permanent part of our society. Those are the people who Made America Great!

The way things are now, we prioritize immigrants on foot by their ability to survive the rigors of crossing the desert and stuff. The guy with the wife and baby is at a huge disadvantage compared to his unencumbered neighbor who's always looking over his shoulder due to past misbehavior.
Tom

 

[Politesse]

I note that Barack Obama and Kamala Harris have some things in common.

Both Barack Hussein Obama and Kamala Devi Harris don't use their middle names, and their first two names reflect non-European cultural heriage -- Arabic for BO and Asian Indian for KH. However, KH's last name is not only European, but Anglo.

Barack: Arabic: "blessing"
Hussein: Arabic, diminutive of Hasan: "handsome"
Obama: Luo (Nilotic; East Sudanic): "crooked, bent"

Kamala: Sanskrit: "lotus"
Devi: Sanskrit: "goddess"
Harris: short for Harrison, "son of Harry" -- Harry: diminutive of Henry, Harold, ... (inherited Germanic)

Both of them have mixed ancestry, with one or both parents being immigrants. BO's father Barack Hussein Obama Sr. is from the Luo ethnic group in Kenya, and his mother Ann Dunham is largely Anglo.

 Family of Barack Obama - "Obama's maternal heritage consists mostly of English ancestry, with smaller amounts of German, Scotch-Irish, Welsh, and Swiss ancestry." - Ancestry of Barack Obama - his mother is mainly descended from the earlier European immigrants, those who came over in colonial and early-independence days.

 Family of Kamala Harris her father has mixed West African and British-Isles ancestry and her mother is South Asian.

Of these people, only BO's mother is a "legacy American" (Tucker Carlson) or a "classic American" (Newt Gingrich), though some of KH's father's ancestors share ancestry with legacy / classic Americans.

Donald John Trump seldom uses his middle name either. Though considering one of his most notable personal accomplishments before his presidency was bedding a sex worker and paying her a very large sum of money, he is certainly a "john" in one common vernacular sense. He also owned a very famous, solid gold "john" in another vernacular sense.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I'll bet that Tom's point is that migrant come to America to mostly earn money to support their families. Give them a job with a temp visa, and they'll most likely return to their home. We need the employment; they need the jobs for their family. Win win.

There's a bunch more things that would become possible.
Two biggies are the ability to vet them a bit, and to prioritize them.

I'm all about bringing in solid immigrants. I'd prefer the kind who want to be a permanent part of our society. Those are the people who Made America Great!

The way things are now, we prioritize immigrants on foot by their ability to survive the rigors of crossing the desert and stuff. The guy with the wife and baby is at a huge disadvantage compared to his unencumbered neighbor who's always looking over his shoulder due to past misbehavior.
Tom

We're in agreement Tom. Although I'd say that the person who crosses the desert with no water and food; carrying a baby; fighting off rapists and vicious gangs; with no guaranties and at great risk; is probably the type of person with the kind of grit and determination that will make him/her very successful (and their offspring) in the United States. And we see this over and over again; that recently migrated people and their offspring are the most successful people in the country.

 

[southernhybrid]

I missed the"Pence is a DEI pick" and "Biden is a DEI pick" threads. Anyone got a link?

I don't know about threads, but in an important way I would say that they both were. Like VP picks have been for years, they both balance the ticket's demographics.

Picking an old white dude helped balance the black youngster aspect of Obama. Biden also filled some gaping holes in Obama's presidential resume. He was a long time Washington insider and had big foreign policy experience.

Trump desperately needed the Evangelical Christian community, with whom he had huge negatives. Mike "The Christian" Pence had tons of such credibility.

Biden was yet another old white dude. Adding a brownish female, who was already accomplished, helped him out a lot.

DEI and "balancing demographics" are pretty much the same thing at that level.
Tom

From what I remember, Pence was the only one at the time who was willing to run with Trump. If you recall, the first time that Trump ran, most of the well known Republicans told the truth about him, like he was totally unqualified to be president etc. My son lives in Indy and I recall seeing "Dump Pence" signs all over the place during his second run for governor, when we visited, so Pence wasn't all that popular, and it seems as if he was like the last one left who was willing to run with Trump. But, sure, the religious element helped win over some of the evangelicals. At least that is my memory and perception of why Pence was chosen to run with Trump. Nobody else wanted the job. Things changed after Pence refused to obey him in 2020. Once the others saw how popular he was among a certain type, those who has been very critical of him, suddenly pretended he was a masterful leader. Most Republicans are now hypocrites, including JD Vance and Nikki Halley.

Otherwise, I agree that a diverse ticket is the way to go. So, sure a Black inexperienced guy with charisma needed a very experienced older white guy to balance out the ticket and that worked quite well. I think if Harris chooses a white guy with administrative experience, who is popular in their own state, that should work for her. I hope in the future we always have a mix gender and culture wise.

 

[TomC]

From what I remember, Pence was the only one at the time who was willing to run with Trump. If you recall, the first time that Trump ran, most of the well known Republicans told the truth about him, like he was totally unqualified to be president etc. My son lives in Indy and I recall seeing "Dump Pence" signs all over the place during his second run for governor, when we visited, so Pence wasn't all that popular, and it seems as if he was like the last one left who was willing to run with Trump.

I've spent my whole life in Pence's home state. I'm well aware of how his efforts to push Christian culture backfired to the point he was willing to join Team Trump for lack of any other options. Even though Trump was hated by the GOP.
But Indiana is just a flyover state, I don't think that many other people even knew about it.

Kinda makes me wonder what he thinks about that choice now. It's dangerous for him and his family to even go outside. We live in Trumpistan. If you think that the hate for Pence was a big deal in 2016, imagine what it's like now in semi rural Indiana.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

imagine what it's like now in semi rural Indiana.

are they hating shady vance already?

 

[TomC]

imagine what it's like now in semi rural Indiana.

are they hating shady vance already?

Of course not.
Vance is still on Team Trump.

Unlike Pence, I don't think Vance has the balls to stand up to Trump when Trump tries to overthrow the government, so they probably never will.
Tom

 

[BH]

Harris-Pence 2024?

 

[TomC]

Harris-Pence 2024?

It'd be a fun trial balloon for pundits to float on Sunday morning talk shows.
Tom

 

[TomC]

People talking about top level women, especially in government, as though their gender is their biggest asset and dismissing their accomplishments reminds me of an old trope on the subject.

Sure, Fred Astaire was a great dancer. But Ginger Rodgers did everything he did.
And she did it backwards and in high heels!

Tom

 

[Playball40]

I note that Barack Obama and Kamala Harris have some things in common.

Both Barack Hussein Obama and Kamala Devi Harris don't use their middle names, and their first two names reflect non-European cultural heriage -- Arabic for BO and Asian Indian for KH. However, KH's last name is not only European, but Anglo.

Barack: Arabic: "blessing"
Hussein: Arabic, diminutive of Hasan: "handsome"
Obama: Luo (Nilotic; East Sudanic): "crooked, bent"

Kamala: Sanskrit: "lotus"
Devi: Sanskrit: "goddess"
Harris: short for Harrison, "son of Harry" -- Harry: diminutive of Henry, Harold, ... (inherited Germanic)

Both of them have mixed ancestry, with one or both parents being immigrants. BO's father Barack Hussein Obama Sr. is from the Luo ethnic group in Kenya, and his mother Ann Dunham is largely Anglo.

 Family of Barack Obama - "Obama's maternal heritage consists mostly of English ancestry, with smaller amounts of German, Scotch-Irish, Welsh, and Swiss ancestry." - Ancestry of Barack Obama - his mother is mainly descended from the earlier European immigrants, those who came over in colonial and early-independence days.

 Family of Kamala Harris her father has mixed West African and British-Isles ancestry and her mother is South Asian.

Of these people, only BO's mother is a "legacy American" (Tucker Carlson) or a "classic American" (Newt Gingrich), though some of KH's father's ancestors share ancestry with legacy / classic Americans.

At least they are using their real first names, unlike Nimarata Nikki Randhawa Haley

 

[Toni]

I note that Barack Obama and Kamala Harris have some things in common.

Both Barack Hussein Obama and Kamala Devi Harris don't use their middle names, and their first two names reflect non-European cultural heriage -- Arabic for BO and Asian Indian for KH. However, KH's last name is not only European, but Anglo.

Barack: Arabic: "blessing"
Hussein: Arabic, diminutive of Hasan: "handsome"
Obama: Luo (Nilotic; East Sudanic): "crooked, bent"

Kamala: Sanskrit: "lotus"
Devi: Sanskrit: "goddess"
Harris: short for Harrison, "son of Harry" -- Harry: diminutive of Henry, Harold, ... (inherited Germanic)

Both of them have mixed ancestry, with one or both parents being immigrants. BO's father Barack Hussein Obama Sr. is from the Luo ethnic group in Kenya, and his mother Ann Dunham is largely Anglo.

 Family of Barack Obama - "Obama's maternal heritage consists mostly of English ancestry, with smaller amounts of German, Scotch-Irish, Welsh, and Swiss ancestry." - Ancestry of Barack Obama - his mother is mainly descended from the earlier European immigrants, those who came over in colonial and early-independence days.

 Family of Kamala Harris her father has mixed West African and British-Isles ancestry and her mother is South Asian.

Of these people, only BO's mother is a "legacy American" (Tucker Carlson) or a "classic American" (Newt Gingrich), though some of KH's father's ancestors share ancestry with legacy / classic Americans.

At least they are using their real first names, unlike Nimarata Nikki Randhawa Haley

Or JD Vance…

I absolutely understand Haley using an Americanized diminutive for her name even if she were not a politician.

 

[lpetrich]

Harriet Hageman on KH:
Josh Rultenberg on X: "When asked about @KamalaHarris candidacy, @HagemanforWY calls @VP a "DEI hire."
"Intellectually, just really kind of the bottom of the barrel...I think she was a DEI hire. And I think that that's what we're seeing, and I just don't think that they have anybody else." (vid link)j" / X
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on X: "What women who attack others like this don’t realize is whoever they think they’re appealing to calls them “DEI” too the moment they leave the room." / X

 

[thebeave]

I note that Barack Obama and Kamala Harris have some things in common.

Both Barack Hussein Obama and Kamala Devi Harris don't use their middle names, and their first two names reflect non-European cultural heriage -- Arabic for BO and Asian Indian for KH. However, KH's last name is not only European, but Anglo.

Barack: Arabic: "blessing"
Hussein: Arabic, diminutive of Hasan: "handsome"
Obama: Luo (Nilotic; East Sudanic): "crooked, bent"

Kamala: Sanskrit: "lotus"
Devi: Sanskrit: "goddess"
Harris: short for Harrison, "son of Harry" -- Harry: diminutive of Henry, Harold, ... (inherited Germanic)

Both of them have mixed ancestry, with one or both parents being immigrants. BO's father Barack Hussein Obama Sr. is from the Luo ethnic group in Kenya, and his mother Ann Dunham is largely Anglo.

 Family of Barack Obama - "Obama's maternal heritage consists mostly of English ancestry, with smaller amounts of German, Scotch-Irish, Welsh, and Swiss ancestry." - Ancestry of Barack Obama - his mother is mainly descended from the earlier European immigrants, those who came over in colonial and early-independence days.

 Family of Kamala Harris her father has mixed West African and British-Isles ancestry and her mother is South Asian.

Of these people, only BO's mother is a "legacy American" (Tucker Carlson) or a "classic American" (Newt Gingrich), though some of KH's father's ancestors share ancestry with legacy / classic Americans.

At least they are using their real first names, unlike Nimarata Nikki Randhawa Haley

Or JD Vance…

I absolutely understand Haley using an Americanized diminutive for her name even if she were not a politician.

Yep. I live in an area with a large population of immigrant Asians (mostly Chinese and Indian). Its very common for them to have Americanized names (especially the Chinese), but still keep their ethnic birth name name for family, legal documents, checks, etc. They do it of their own volition. Its just easier for everybody, as honestly, some of their names are really long and unfamilar, so are difficult to pronounce and remember. A common thing I've noticed is for Indians to go by the intials of their first and middle names. I personally know an "MJ" and and "SK" from India. When they wrote a personal check to me for the first time, their full name was printed on the check. It became quite clear to me then why they go by MJ and SK. And I was grateful for that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I missed the"Pence is a DEI pick" and "Biden is a DEI pick" threads. Anyone got a link?

While Pence wouldn't be called a DEI pick do you think that "white male" wasn't actually a requirement for who he picked? Same thing, other way around.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I note that Barack Obama and Kamala Harris have some things in common.

Both Barack Hussein Obama and Kamala Devi Harris don't use their middle names,

a lot of people, if not most, don’t regularly use their middle names. That’s a completely unremarkable observation.

I don’t, except when required to do so, like for a driver license or airplane reservation.

Yeah. Why in the world should I? AFIAK my name is unique in the world, what would be gained by using my middle name also?

(Note to Googlers: I have found many examples of words attributed to me that I did not say. Lots of scrapers of old discussions that destroyed the quoting.)

 

[TomC]

Things changed after Pence refused to obey him in 2020.

Can you imagine what was going through Pence's mind during the last few months?

Nobody knows Trump's willingness to be evil better than Pence. His vindictiveness. His power over the violently deplorable.

Remember when one of Trump's supporters, Jan 6, 21, just happened to have a gallows in her purse?

Imagine being Pence in Southern Indiana as Trump keeps climbing in the polls. He and Mother were probably shopping for property in another country.
Tom

 

[southernhybrid]

imagine what it's like now in semi rural Indiana.

are they hating shady vance already?

Of course not.
Vance is still on Team Trump.

Unlike Pence, I don't think Vance has the balls to stand up to Trump when Trump tries to overthrow the government, so they probably never will.
Tom

A lot of people in Appalachia hate Vance because in his book, he made it sound as if their poverty was all their own faults. I think he criticized them for receiving government aide, although I never read the book, so I might be wrong about that.

I mentioned this in one of these threads. My husband's former boss is about to do some temporary work as a consultant in WV and he was told that a lot of people in WV hate Vance, so while they won't vote for Harris, they will leave the president part of the vote blank because they can't stand Vance. So yes. A lot of people do hate Vance and won't vote for Trump because of him, but it's likely all in red states, so it's probably not going to matter much.