RussiaGate

[Jimmy Higgins]

MSNBC is reporting an indictment will be revealed on Monday. I suspect it will be Manafort.

And it is Manafort. So this witch hunt continues... and looks to have found a witch. The question is, what are the charges, as Mueller is likely not wanting to bring up anything he doesn't think he can't convict on.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

money laundering and foreign lobbying...

WASHINGTON — Paul Manafort surrendered to federal authorities Monday morning, after a person close to the case said the first charges were filed in a special counsel investigation.

The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, were not immediately clear but represent a significant escalation in a special counsel investigation that has cast a shadow over the president’s first year in office. Also charged was Mr. Manafort’s former business associate Rick Gates, who was also told to surrender on Monday, the person said.

Mr. Manafort walked into the F.B.I.’s field office in Washington at about 8:15 a.m. with his lawyer.

Mr. Gates is a longtime protégé and junior partner of Mr. Manafort. His name appears on documents linked to companies that Mr. Manafort’s firm set up in Cyprus to receive payments from politicians and businesspeople in Eastern Europe, records reviewed by The New York Times show.

Mr. Manafort had been under investigation for violations of federal tax law, money laundering and whether he appropriately disclosed his foreign lobbying.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/paul-manafort-indicted.html

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

money laundering and foreign lobbying...

WASHINGTON — Paul Manafort surrendered to federal authorities Monday morning, after a person close to the case said the first charges were filed in a special counsel investigation.

The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, were not immediately clear but represent a significant escalation in a special counsel investigation that has cast a shadow over the president’s first year in office. Also charged was Mr. Manafort’s former business associate Rick Gates, who was also told to surrender on Monday, the person said.

Mr. Manafort walked into the F.B.I.’s field office in Washington at about 8:15 a.m. with his lawyer.

Mr. Gates is a longtime protégé and junior partner of Mr. Manafort. His name appears on documents linked to companies that Mr. Manafort’s firm set up in Cyprus to receive payments from politicians and businesspeople in Eastern Europe, records reviewed by The New York Times show.

Mr. Manafort had been under investigation for violations of federal tax law, money laundering and whether he appropriately disclosed his foreign lobbying.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/paul-manafort-indicted.html

The article says "The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, were not immediately clear".

So we still don't know yet. We know things are on when the lawyers representing the White House lawyers start hiring up lawyers for themselves. Actually looks like your article has been updated.

• conspiracy against the United States
• conspiracy to launder money
• being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal
• false and misleading FARA statements
• false statements
• seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts

Looks like Mueller is going for an easy chip shot. Proving conspiracy to launder money is going to be easier than proving the money laundering. Add these charges up and that has to be a decent amount of prison time. Chip shot for Manafort to turn on Kuschner/Trump or to at least give Mueller the keys to Russia.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

money laundering and foreign lobbying...


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/paul-manafort-indicted.html

The article says "The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, were not immediately clear".

So we still don't know yet. We know things are on when the lawyers representing the White House lawyers start hiring up lawyers for themselves. Actually looks like your article has been updated.

• conspiracy against the United States
• conspiracy to launder money
• being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal
• false and misleading FARA statements
• false statements
• seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts

Looks like Mueller is going for an easy chip shot. Proving conspiracy to launder money is going to be easier than proving the money laundering. Add these charges up and that has to be a decent amount of prison time. Chip shot for Manafort to turn on Kuschner/Trump or to at least give Mueller the keys to Russia.

I agree there are things we don't know and also things we cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt or even prove with clear and convincing evidence. Right now, though, I see this:

Mr. Gates is a longtime protégé and junior partner of Mr. Manafort. His name appears on documents linked to companies that Mr. Manafort’s firm set up in Cyprus to receive payments from politicians and businesspeople in Eastern Europe, records reviewed by The New York Times show.

Mr. Manafort had been under investigation for violations of federal tax law, money laundering and whether he appropriately disclosed his foreign lobbying.

...in concert with his being arrested and charged as a reasonable inference that his charges are related to "violations of federal tax law, money laundering, and [/or ... in]appropriately disclosed ... foreign lobbying." I cannot prove it since I don't have the evidence and no one is saying for a fact that's it. If he's being charged by Mueller's team, though, then I think it's related to the investigation, meaning what he's being investigated for. For example, he's not being charged with child porn. Now, is it possible he's been charged for something else tangentially related to the investigation? Yes, it's theoretically possible, but remember there's no evidence for that, the preponderance of evidence and the reason for probable cause and a warrant are related to the investigation as stated above. Thus and therefore lorem ipsum et cetera and other Latin phrases and ergo, the reasonable inference of which I wrote. All that being said, I will take a wait and see attitude and watch for news on the subject as well as ensure it is posted in the forum for updated information.

 

[Horatio Parker]

money laundering and foreign lobbying...


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/paul-manafort-indicted.html

The article says "The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, were not immediately clear".

So we still don't know yet. We know things are on when the lawyers representing the White House lawyers start hiring up lawyers for themselves. Actually looks like your article has been updated.

• conspiracy against the United States
• conspiracy to launder money
• being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal
• false and misleading FARA statements
• false statements
• seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts

Looks like Mueller is going for an easy chip shot. Proving conspiracy to launder money is going to be easier than proving the money laundering. Add these charges up and that has to be a decent amount of prison time. Chip shot for Manafort to turn on Kuschner/Trump or to at least give Mueller the keys to Russia.

I read that if Mueller files "criminal informations", it means someone has turned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The article says "The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, were not immediately clear".

So we still don't know yet. We know things are on when the lawyers representing the White House lawyers start hiring up lawyers for themselves. Actually looks like your article has been updated.

• conspiracy against the United States
• conspiracy to launder money
• being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal
• false and misleading FARA statements
• false statements
• seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts

Looks like Mueller is going for an easy chip shot. Proving conspiracy to launder money is going to be easier than proving the money laundering. Add these charges up and that has to be a decent amount of prison time. Chip shot for Manafort to turn on Kuschner/Trump or to at least give Mueller the keys to Russia.

I agree there are things we don't know and also things we cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt or even prove with clear and convincing evidence. Right now, though, I see this:

Mr. Gates is a longtime protégé and junior partner of Mr. Manafort. His name appears on documents linked to companies that Mr. Manafort’s firm set up in Cyprus to receive payments from politicians and businesspeople in Eastern Europe, records reviewed by The New York Times show.

Mr. Manafort had been under investigation for violations of federal tax law, money laundering and whether he appropriately disclosed his foreign lobbying.

...in concert with his being arrested and charged as a reasonable inference that his charges are related to "violations of federal tax law, money laundering, and [/or ... in]appropriately disclosed ... foreign lobbying." I cannot prove it since I don't have the evidence and no one is saying for a fact that's it. If he's being charged by Mueller's team, though, then I think it's related to the investigation, meaning what he's being investigated for. For example, he's not being charged with child porn. Now, is it possible he's been charged for something else tangentially related to the investigation? Yes, it's theoretically possible, but remember there's no evidence for that, the preponderance of evidence and the reason for probable cause and a warrant are related to the investigation as stated above. Thus and therefore lorem ipsum et cetera and other Latin phrases and ergo, the reasonable inference of which I wrote. All that being said, I will take a wait and see attitude and watch for news on the subject as well as ensure it is posted in the forum for updated information.

What I meant was that the article you cited didn't have the info the moment you cited it, but was updated with the indictment charges. Fast moving story.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Fast moving story.

You bet!

Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III on Monday revealed charges against three former Trump campaign officials — former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, his longtime business partner Rick Gates and former Trump foreign policy advisor George Papadopoulos...

I bet Webster is really upset right now.

...

Papadopoulos pleaded guilty earlier this month to making a false statement to FBI investigators who asked about his contacts with a foreigner connected to Russian officials, and the agreement was unsealed Monday. The foreigner was described as a London-based professor and Papadopoulos claimed the professor introduced him to Putin’s niece and the Russian ambassador in London, according to the indictment.

Manafort and Gates were charged in a 12-count indictment with conspiracy to launder money, making false statements and other charges stemming from probes into possible Russian influence in U.S. political affairs.
...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e2b598d8c00_story.html?utm_term=.c3f8a28583ea

George Papadopoulos, a former campaign adviser to President Trump, pleaded guilty earlier this month to lying to federal officials about his contacts with Russian nationals he believed had ties to the Russian government during Trump’s presidential campaign.

Papadopoulos, who was named by Trump in March 2016 as a foreign policy adviser to the campaign, pleaded guilty to lying about his contacts with the Russians when he was interviewed in January by federal agents who were investigating Russian interference in the presidential campaign.

Papadopoulos told agents that he had been in contact with a Russian professor even prior to joining the campaign. In fact, prosecutors say he met the man in March 2016 and was told by the professor the next month that he had damaging information about Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, including thousands of Clinton’s emails.

Papadopoulos also falsely told agents he believed the professor was a low-level person in Russia, but, in fact, he knew that the professor had ties to senior levels of the Russian government, according to court papers released Monday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...1_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.5d9debada051

Clinton Emails?

Oh boy, this George Papadopolous is the missing link from Russia to Clinton emails, too. This links EVERYTHING.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Copernicus]

Here is the text of the formal 12-count indictment against Manafort and Gates:

United States of America v. Paul Manafort Jr and Richard W Gates III

Here is the text of the formal charges against Papadopoulos:

US v. George Papadopoulos

The Manafort-Gates indictment does not really mention collusion between Russia and the campaign, but it lays out the 12-year record of ties between the pair and Russia and their efforts to cover up those ties. Mueller can use the prosecution to apply pressure to Manafort and Gates, who have not been cooperating with the investigation. OTOH, Papadopoulos is all about collusion and has admitted to his attempted coverup and has been cooperating with Mueller. So he is additional leverage.

Trump himself has gone into panic mode. He tried to stir up a tweet-storm on Friday, and his Republican minions in Congress are trying to help by ramping down their investigation of Russia ties with Trump's campaign. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that Trump will try to stir up a major controversy or foment an international crisis in order to deflect attention. He has a lot of power to obstruct justice here, and he may feel that he has little to lose as he gets more and more desperate.

 

[Will Wiley]

OTOH, Papadopoulos is all about collusion .

In what way is Papadopoulos "all about collusion"?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

OTOH, Papadopoulos is all about collusion .

In what way is Papadopoulos "all about collusion"?

Did you not read his case files? There are a number of persons not mentioned by name in the documentation. These persons were Russians and other members of the Trump campaign, to include his supervisor (Clovis) and a high-ranking campaign member (probably Don Jr).

 

[Underseer]

Huh. So one of the indictments is for[ent]hellip[/ent] "conspiracy against the United States."

That sounds a lot like treason, doesn't it?

Hey, conservatives and libertarians (who are completely different, honest), how does that nothingburger taste?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That sounds a lot like treason, doesn't it?

It sounds like it, but it very most definitely isn't. The conspiracy charge was the attempt to circumvent paying taxes.

 

[Elixir]

OTOH, Papadopoulos is all about collusion .

In what way is Papadopoulos "all about collusion"?

You sure have a lot of stupid questions for someone who refuses to read the court documents...

 

[Tom Sawyer]

In what way is Papadopoulos "all about collusion"?

You sure have a lot of stupid questions for someone who refuses to read the court documents...

Isn't that the entire point of his posts? The goal is to distract and derail the conversation about nothings so that no real discussion goes on.

This only works if people respond to him and include him in the conversation. If his posts are treated as white noise like ads for erectile dysfunction, the derail doesn't work.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You sure have a lot of stupid questions for someone who refuses to read the court documents...

Isn't that the entire point of his posts? The goal is to distract and derail the conversation about nothings so that no real discussion goes on.

This only works if people respond to him and include him in the conversation. If his posts are treated as white noise like ads for erectile dysfunction, the derail doesn't work.

Oh yeah? Well, Hillary Clinton used illegal aliens hired by George Soros to sell plutonium fusion technology from Back to the Future to the Russians.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I find it peculiar that the second the Russia collusion investigation gets an indictment, Will Wiley is back here immediately.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't that the entire point of his posts? The goal is to distract and derail the conversation about nothings so that no real discussion goes on.

This only works if people respond to him and include him in the conversation. If his posts are treated as white noise like ads for erectile dysfunction, the derail doesn't work.

Oh yeah? Well, Hillary Clinton used illegal aliens hired by George Soros to sell plutonium fusion technology from Back to the Future to the Russians.

The Clintons don't really help the argument due to their questionable (though likely just barely legal) tactics when it comes to large sums of money. The oddity is that the Clintons aren't liberals, yet the right-wing loves to use them as a foil against liberals. It does get tiring, the Clinton this, Clinton that crap. Especially when Trump has been an absolute wreck for domestic and foreign policy up to now.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Isn't that the entire point of his posts? The goal is to distract and derail the conversation about nothings so that no real discussion goes on.

This only works if people respond to him and include him in the conversation. If his posts are treated as white noise like ads for erectile dysfunction, the derail doesn't work.

Oh yeah? Well, Hillary Clinton used illegal aliens hired by George Soros to sell plutonium fusion technology from Back to the Future to the Russians.

There is nothing in the 31 pages this indictment alleging tax fraud, money laundering indictment which also relates to allegations of influencing the outcome of the last election in the USA. Perhaps Mueller can investigate possible influencing of the outcome of the Ukrainian election. The last US investigation report into alleged Russian influencing the outcome of the last election produced no certain conclusion which is made clear in the conclusive statements.

 

[KeepTalking]

Oh yeah? Well, Hillary Clinton used illegal aliens hired by George Soros to sell plutonium fusion technology from Back to the Future to the Russians.

There is nothing in the 31 pages this indictment alleging tax fraud, money laundering indictment which also relates to allegations of influencing the outcome of the last election in the USA.

Patience is a virtue. As I have heard with regard to these indictments, this is not the beginning of the end, but rather the end of the beginning. This is Mueller's shot across the bow for Trump and his cronies. It is a signal to the lower level players that they had better cooperate with his investigation, or he will find out what they have been doing, even if it is not related to the administration, and throw the book at them. If they do cooperate, and roll over on those above them, they can expect leniency like George Papa D.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Oh yeah? Well, Hillary Clinton used illegal aliens hired by George Soros to sell plutonium fusion technology from Back to the Future to the Russians.

There is nothing in the 31 pages this indictment alleging tax fraud, money laundering indictment which also relates to allegations of influencing the outcome of the last election in the USA. Perhaps Mueller can investigate possible influencing of the outcome of the Ukrainian election. The last US investigation report into alleged Russian influencing the outcome of the last election produced no certain conclusion which is made clear in the conclusive statements.

Why are you only focusing on the Manafort indictment and not, say, the meeting of Don Jr, Manafort, and Russians re Clinton dirt; Roger Stone and Clinton emails; Russian Prosecutors General's relation to Trump and money laundering; and Papadopoulos's conviction and all of these things as they relate to each other? There is actually a lot here and that still doesn't cover it all. For example, Manafort's relation to pro-Russian forces in Ukraine also shows a relation to Russian troll army I.P.'s since those were used in cyber-attacks against Ukraine. There is probably just too much now for any one person to try to come up with a list. The Trump campaign is screwed and their only chance to is try to take down the Dems and investigators. Fox News & Pravda Friends are in overtime mode trying to counter attack through propaganda.