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Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics
- Thread starter Rhea
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I'd guess that right now in Russia there are only two groups of people who may still know what's going on and might be able to do something about it. The Top Top Generals and the Oligarchs. Would either of those groups do anything that's not in their own self interest as opposed to what's good for the Ukrainians and ordinary Russians? Removing Putin and stopping the war would be better than what's happening right now.
I don't see how the Oligarchs could see what's happening now as good for them. They would prefer the war was over so that they could continue to suck Russia of any wealth for themselves.
The Generals? No idea.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
The change certainly has to come from inside. Right now the Russian population is much like a feudal state only with a bit more technology, so how that change happens is the $64 question. But in the end many people will have to be willing to risk all they have, including their lives, for freedom from their oppressors. There is no other formula.
There are probably enough informed people within the population right now to affect such a change but they are not armed and have lived with totalitarianism for so many generations that I'd say their behavior has been selected for. Odd as it may sound the change may have to begin at the top where the information is unquestioned. But speak up and you end up dying, poisoned or in prison, like Navalny.
From the outside there is no other formula than that being implemented presently by Ukraine's allies. Nuclear weapons make any other action too risky. And of course the question is how much sacrifice those allies are willing to endure for Ukraine and global freedom. I hope it's a lot. It needs to be.
There are probably enough informed people within the population right now to affect such a change but they are not armed and have lived with totalitarianism for so many generations that I'd say their behavior has been selected for. Odd as it may sound the change may have to begin at the top where the information is unquestioned. But speak up and you end up dying, poisoned or in prison, like Navalny.
From the outside there is no other formula than that being implemented presently by Ukraine's allies. Nuclear weapons make any other action too risky. And of course the question is how much sacrifice those allies are willing to endure for Ukraine and global freedom. I hope it's a lot. It needs to be.
Jayjay
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My understanding is that the generals, including heads of security agencies, are ideologically aligned with Putin. And they loathe the oligarchs, whom they consider to be too occupied with money rather than national pride.
SLD
Contributor
Yes, but they may not tolerate the failure that Putin has generated. They may act even though they agreed initially to support him. They may not be able to stand a quagmire. They know that will drain their military power.
But my primary question remains unanswered: how do you break through their media barriers and get the truth to the Russian people? Show them what’s going on in Ukraine.
Hermit
Cantankerous grump
The Kremlin, with the unanimous agreement of the Duma, is indisputably dragooning the press in particular and the public in general into silence about the war against Ukraine. The bill recently passed in the lower house imposes jail terms for spreading intentionally "fake" news about the military. The jail terms can be up to 15 years "If the fakes lead to serious consequences".
While government members never refer to the war as a war, invasion or attack - referring to it euphemistically as a "special military operation" instead, and while it has instructed Russian media to avoid the former and use the latter terminology, I have yet to find evidence that there will be "penalties of 15 years in prison simply for calling a war a war". Aljazeera quotes the speaker of the lower house, Vyacheslav Volodin as saying
SLD
Contributor
War in Ukraine: Part 3 – The Future of Russia - The Intellectual Investor
Sanctions have a checkered history. They didn’t get rid of Castro in Cuba or the Kims in North Korea. It took more than a decade for sanctions against South Africa in the 1980s to bear fruit. But the world has never seen sanctions like this. Ironically, these sanctions may give Putin even more...
contrarianedge.com
This article mentions it.
But my question still stands: how do you crack RussIan censorship firewalls?
Pravda is lying to you. The terrorism is from Russia, not Ukraine. (Although I suspect much of it is incompetence rather than deliberate.)
No. We are sending stuff with a range of a few miles. Infantry weapons, hide, when you see something worthwhile for the weapon you're carrying you fire it, discard the expended launch tube and run away with the control unit. (The assembled weapon is bulky, but most of that bulk is the missile tube that's discarded after use. The expensive parts are the bird that's already heading downrange and the control unit that's small and meant to be not hard to carry.)
Even if this were a direct engagement against US forces it wouldn't be over the horizon, just behind terrain--a scout helicopter hides behind a hill and hovers so it's targeting pod is the only thing with a line of sight. It finds a target and tells an Apache where it is--the Apache is hiding behind another hill with nothing sticking up. The Hellfire heads towards where it was told to go, it climbs up and then can see what the targeting pod is designating. (This is the design mission for the Hellfire, even though most people think of how it has been used launched from drones.)
Hermit
Cantankerous grump
So do many others. I still don't see the basis on which the assertion is made, especially in light of the statements I quoted:War in Ukraine: Part 3 – The Future of Russia - The Intellectual Investor
Sanctions have a checkered history. They didn’t get rid of Castro in Cuba or the Kims in North Korea. It took more than a decade for sanctions against South Africa in the 1980s to bear fruit. But the world has never seen sanctions like this. Ironically, these sanctions may give Putin even more...
This article mentions it.
I don't know.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
In the news Russia is not using large scale air power because the anti aircraft e weapons being supplied to Ukraine are effective.
America is back!
www.wsj.com
WSJ News Exclusive | Saudi, Emirati Leaders Decline Calls With Biden During Ukraine Crisis
The Persian Gulf monarchies have signaled they won’t help ease surging oil prices unless Washington supports them in Yemen, elsewhere.
www.wsj.com
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Funny! It's one of things about Russians, they think that they are just entitled to everything. Everyone should just bow down them.
Jayjay
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I find it interesting that Lavrov booked the meeting with his Ukrainian counterpart for thursday. It was announced last weekend or so. I would imagine, that if they were able to agree to meet, they'd do it as soon as possible. But why thursday? Is it because it's exactly two weeks after the start of the war, and Putin wants it wrapped up in two weeks? Or is it because Russia thinks it can get its people in position around Kyiv by that time so they can make an ultimatum, like it did with the last minute negotiations with various western leaders just before the war?
I think something is going to happen tomorrow either just before the meeting, or immediately after it.
I think something is going to happen tomorrow either just before the meeting, or immediately after it.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Possible, and likely Putin's response to western "economic warfare." But the most important thing is to keep Zelensky alive and keep inflicting casualties on Putin's forces.
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Follow up tweets:
Elixir
Made in America
Your stupid insistence that Pootey’s Nazis even exist, completely strips any cred you might have had away from your online propaganda campaign.
That is, if you had any cred after your repeated assertions that there would be no invasion.
Still not getting it @barbos; we HAVE a free press and can see what is ACTUALLY going on.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Was the maternity hospital that Russians just bombarded outside of Mariupol's city limits?
Ukraine says Russia bombed children's hospital in besieged Mariupol
The Russian reply to this charge, of course, is that Ukrainian Nazis did it in order to make Russians look bad, not that Russians did it to terrorize and demoralize the population that doesn't accept them as friendly liberators.