Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[Jimmy Higgins]

Putin wants investigation into why Conscripts are being used in Ukrainian invasion.

A day after Russian President Vladimir Putin declared there were no Russian conscripts serving in Ukraine and none would be sent, his Defense Ministry admitted Wednesday that wasn’t true.

Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov announced that “several facts” confirming the use of conscripts in Ukraine had been found.

Several facts? Like what, pay stubs? Death certificates?

Are you ready? This is the good part.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Putin had categorically ordered the military not to send conscripts into battle in Ukraine. Putin on Wednesday ordered military prosecutors to investigate who was responsible for disobeying the order, he said.

He categorically ordered the military not to send conscripts? Is that typical.

President: We are to invade Mexico!
General: Right away sir.
President: Oh... don't use anyone that isn't trained in the military.
General: Uh... yeah... kind of assumed that.

 

[Elixir]

The Russian reply to this charge, of course, is that Ukrainian Nazis did it in order to make Russians look bad

Ah yes, those mthical Nazi's that have evaded detection, capture or even being photographed, while they kill thousands of expendable Russian tin soldiers.
I wonder if they're ever going to start paying someone like barbos to pretend they're a Nazi, and have them "confess" to all the war crimes Pootey's boys commit.
Then Pootey can even publicly execute someone (a political dissident of course) and tell his gullible public that it was the "Nazi".

 

[Elixir]

Right... it would probably have to be an "over the horizon" attack. Wouldn't some of the gear we've been sending them be up to that?

No. We are sending stuff with a range of a few miles.

It must be a daunting task to secure an area of 40 miles by "a few miles" x2 (two flanks). If "a few" is, say, 3, that's 240 square miles... of terrain more familiar to Ukranians than Russians.
I suspect there something more to it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The Russian reply to this charge, of course, is that Ukrainian Nazis did it in order to make Russians look bad

Ah yes, those mthical Nazi's that have evaded detection, capture or even being photographed, while they kill thousands of expendable Russian tin soldiers.

There are undoubtedly neo-Nazis fighting for Ukraine's freedom right now. Those types of neo-Nazis are in Russia too.

 

[Elixir]

The Russian reply to this charge, of course, is that Ukrainian Nazis did it in order to make Russians look bad

Ah yes, those mthical Nazi's that have evaded detection, capture or even being photographed, while they kill thousands of expendable Russian tin soldiers.

There are undoubtedly neo-Nazis fighting for Ukraine's freedom right now. Those types of neo-Nazis are in Russia too.

WUT?
Maybe I'm not clear on what a neo-Nazi is.
I am fairly sure that regular old OG Nazis never fought under the command of a Jewish head of State.

 

[bilby]

Right... it would probably have to be an "over the horizon" attack. Wouldn't some of the gear we've been sending them be up to that?

No. We are sending stuff with a range of a few miles.

It must be a daunting task to secure an area of 40 miles by "a few miles" x2 (two flanks). If "a few" is, say, 3, that's 240 square miles... of terrain more familiar to Ukranians than Russians.
I suspect there something more to it.

"If your enemy's incompetence is on view for the whole world to laugh at, don't interfere" - Not Sun Tzu, but it's the sort of advice he'd probably have given.

 

[SLD]

Right... it would probably have to be an "over the horizon" attack. Wouldn't some of the gear we've been sending them be up to that?

No. We are sending stuff with a range of a few miles.

It must be a daunting task to secure an area of 40 miles by "a few miles" x2 (two flanks). If "a few" is, say, 3, that's 240 square miles... of terrain more familiar to Ukranians than Russians.
I suspect there something more to it.

"If your enemy's incompetence is on view for the whole world to laugh at, don't interfere" - Not Sun Tzu, but it's the sort of advice he'd probably have given.

I do agree. The invasion as exposed the Russian army as incompetent at most military tasks. And it may result in Putin and Russia’s downfall. It could also reignite Chechnya’s independence movement. But I cannot exalt at such given the immense cost in lives on all sides. This war is utterly horrific. The casualties are on a par with WWII, (that is for the same amount of time).

 

[Keith&Co.]

Putin wants investigation into why Conscripts are being used in Ukrainian invasion.



He categorically ordered the military not to send conscripts? Is that typical.

President: We are to invade Mexico!
General: Right away sir.
President: Oh... don't use anyone that isn't trained in the military.
General: Uh... yeah... kind of assumed that.

It's not the level of training. I'm sure on paper they all qualified as marksman. Hell, i qualified as a marksman, i only shot once a year.
No, he's clearly worried about two things.
1...their dedication to Russia. These kids keep surrendering, defecting, hiding inside their APC.
2...their willingness to follow his exact orders. Some seem upset with shooting schools. 'We didn't know we were going to shoot Ukrainians!'

Well, one thing, their dependability in prosecuting his illegal war of terror. A more apt comparison:
President: We are to invade Mexico!
General: Right away sir.
President: Oh... don't use anyone currently stationed in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico. Or anyone with a hispanic name, wife, or husband.
General Ramos. Um....

 

[Hermit]

The Russian reply to this charge, of course, is that Ukrainian Nazis did it in order to make Russians look bad

Ah yes, those mthical Nazi's that have evaded detection, capture or even being photographed

To be fair, there is what started off as the Azov battalion, a right-wing extremist, neo-Nazi, formerly paramilitary unit of the National Guard of Ukraine, and at least some of its units have been photographed.

It was formed in May 2014. On 12 November 2014, the battallion was incorporated into the National Guard of Ukraine. Since then all members have been official soldiers serving in the National Guard. As membership grew, the battallion became a regiment. In 2017 the size of the regiment was estimated at more than 2,500 members.

That said, Putin's claim of liberating Ukraine from Nazi oppression is a bizarre thing to say about a country whose head of state, elected by popular vote, is Jewish.

 

[Jayjay]

The Russian reply to this charge, of course, is that Ukrainian Nazis did it in order to make Russians look bad

Ah yes, those mthical Nazi's that have evaded detection, capture or even being photographed

To be fair, there is what started off as the Azov battalion, a right-wing extremist, neo-Nazi, formerly paramilitary unit of the National Guard of Ukraine, and at least some of its units have been photographed.

It was formed in May 2014. On 12 November 2014, the battallion was incorporated into the National Guard of Ukraine. Since then all members have been official soldiers serving in the National Guard. As membership grew, the battallion became a regiment. In 2017 the size of the regiment was estimated at more than 2,500 members.

That said, Putin's claim of liberating Ukraine from Nazi oppression is a bizarre thing to say about a country whose head of state, elected by popular vote, is Jewish.

Here is an interesting paper on both Ukrainian and Russian far-right involvement in the 2014 war:

https://www.ifri.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/rnv95_uk_likhachev_far-right_radicals_final.pdf

Basically, Ukrainian far right didn't get political prominence until 2010 when pro-Russian Yanukovich was elected president. They didn't really have much to do with the revolution in early 2014, they lost their parliamentary seats due to infighting and misorganization after that. And while Azov battalion and other smaller groups have been able to get some good press from fighting in Eastern Ukraine, their involvement hasn't been critical. The point is that without Russia invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea, there would be no "Azov battalion".

At the same time, Russia has also been recruiting from far-right groups in Russia.

 

[Hermit]

Right... it would probably have to be an "over the horizon" attack. Wouldn't some of the gear we've been sending them be up to that?

No. We are sending stuff with a range of a few miles.

It must be a daunting task to secure an area of 40 miles by "a few miles" x2 (two flanks). If "a few" is, say, 3, that's 240 square miles... of terrain more familiar to Ukranians than Russians.
I suspect there something more to it.

"If your enemy's incompetence is on view for the whole world to laugh at, don't interfere" - Not Sun Tzu, but it's the sort of advice he'd probably have given.

A more recent version, and with a fairly good provenance (first cited in 1836): When the enemy is making a false movement we must take good care not to interrupt him. - Napoleon Bonaparte, 1805

 

[Elixir]

The Russian reply to this charge, of course, is that Ukrainian Nazis did it in order to make Russians look bad, not that Russians did it to terrorize and demoralize the population that doesn't accept them as friendly liberators.

I wonder how hard it must be for the average Russian citizen to discern that their access to information is being curtailed and controlled. Even Barbos, with all his claims of access to CNN and other “MSM” sources, is obviously suffering from delusions cultivated by the Russian misinformation machine. I hear most rural Russians believe the tales of Nazis and Ukrainians bombing themselves while the Russian “special operation” tries to save them. Weird.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The Russian reply to this charge, of course, is that Ukrainian Nazis did it in order to make Russians look bad, not that Russians did it to terrorize and demoralize the population that doesn't accept them as friendly liberators.

I wonder how hard it must be for the average Russian citizen to discern that their access to information is being curtailed and controlled. Even Barbos, with all his claims of access to CNN and other “MSM” sources, is obviously suffering from delusions cultivated by the Russian misinformation machine. I hear most rural Russians believe the tales of Nazis and Ukrainians bombing themselves while the Russian “special operation” tries to save them. Weird.

Any quasi-independent news source in Russia has been replaced with good ole fashioned Kremlin approved news reporting. For the life of me, I have no idea why barbos is here right now. It can only be a threat to him. Clearly we aren't being convinced of the lies.

 

[Elixir]

I wonder how hard it must be for the average Russian citizen to discern that their access to information is being curtailed and controlled. Even Barbos, with all his claims of access to CNN and other “MSM” sources, is obviously suffering from delusions cultivated by the Russian misinformation machine. I hear most rural Russians believe the tales of Nazis and Ukrainians bombing themselves while the Russian “special operation” tries to save them. Weird.

Any quasi-independent news source in Russia has been replaced with good ole fashioned Kremlin approved news reporting.

Right - do they NOT notice this? I mean if Trump had had his way and CNN, PBS and NPR and the three major networks’ news shows had suddenly disappeared, I think I’d suspect Trump was trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Are Russians so used to being screwed over that they don’t even care any more?

For the life of me, I have no idea why barbos is here right now. It can only be a threat to him. Clearly we aren't being convinced of the lies.

I expect barbos to disappear from here soon, if he hasn’t already.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Right - do they NOT notice this? I mean if Trump had had his way and CNN, PBS and NPR and the three major networks’ news shows had suddenly disappeared, I think I’d suspect Trump was trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Are Russians so used to being screwed over that they don’t even care any more?

Yes.

The ones that did care and did protest and did oppose and did speak out have been selectively purged. The chilling effect of such mob enforcement is obvious. Putinstan is presently one big crime boss's territory. Ukraine is viewed as another unfriendly crime boss's territory and explains the conflict better than any other dynamic.

Whether SLD is being optimistic is yet to be seen. It is certainly within the realm of possibility that Putinstan's military is not up to the task of subduing Ukraine. Is indiscriminate bombing going to work as it did in Chechnya? I don't think so. I can foresee another Bay of Pigs moment where the west and Ukraine are going to have to show their cards but I don't think that will affect the outcome of the war. I also like the fact that Biden is in charge and not someone who hasn't been around the block.

 

[Copernicus]

The risk of a nuclear apocalypse is simply too great for the West to intervene on Ukraine's behalf. Russia has even more nuclear warheads than the US does, and its leader is clearly unstable and not likely to recover his senses. It is not up to the US or Europe to decide what Ukraine should do. All they can do is decide to send defensive weapons, provide a safe haven for refugees, and impose economic sanctions. Those are the only options. The Ukrainians themselves are perfectly capable of surrender, negotiation, or continued resistance. The Russians can decide whether to continue fighting or simply retreat back into their positions before the start of the invasion.

I've seen people speculate as to what "we" should be willing to sacrifice in Ukraine to get this war to end. Should we send Migs to Ukraine and risk a widening of the war? Should we impose a no-fly zone and risk widening the war? Those options are madness. They won't make Putin recover his sanity except in our dreams. The reality is that we are powerless to save Ukraine from Russia or Russia from itself. Nuclear weapons serve only two purposes in the modern world: deterrence or suicide.

 

[ZiprHead]

US Rep. Madison Cawthorn calls Ukrainian president 'thug.'

'Thug' remarks from the North Carolina Republican congressman Madison Cawthorn are out of step with the view of GOP voters.

www.wral.com

RALEIGH, N.C. — U.S. Rep. Madison Cawthorn of North Carolina told supporters he thought Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was a "thug"—a comment that runs counter to the overwhelming share of Republicans with a favorable view of the leader fending off a military invasion from Russia.

"Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug," Cawthorn said in a video obtained by WRAL. "Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies."

It was unclear where the video was taken. Cawthorn had a number of events in the state over the weekend.

 

[ZiprHead]

Here’s how Putin protects himself from assassins and coup plots

Since rising to power in 2000, Russian President Vladimir Putin is apparently obsessed with both his security and his health – protecting himself from assassins and avoiding COVID-19.

nypost.com

 

[ZiprHead]

Russia clearly names the conditions for the military operation in Ukraine to end

Russia will stop the operation under the following conditions:

english.pravda.ru

Russia will stop the operation under the following conditions:

• Ukraine must recognise Crimea as Russian territory;
• Ukraine must recognise the independence of the DPR and the LPR;
• Ukraine should amend the Constitution and abandon its claims to join "any bloc."

Читайте больше на https://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/150614-russia_ukraine/

 

[TV and credit cards]

The risk of a nuclear apocalypse is simply too great for the West to intervene on Ukraine's behalf. Russia has even more nuclear warheads than the US does, and its leader is clearly unstable and not likely to recover his senses. It is not up to the US or Europe to decide what Ukraine should do. All they can do is decide to send defensive weapons, provide a safe haven for refugees, and impose economic sanctions. Those are the only options. The Ukrainians themselves are perfectly capable of surrender, negotiation, or continued resistance. The Russians can decide whether to continue fighting or simply retreat back into their positions before the start of the invasion.

I've seen people speculate as to what "we" should be willing to sacrifice in Ukraine to get this war to end. Should we send Migs to Ukraine and risk a widening of the war? Should we impose a no-fly zone and risk widening the war? Those options are madness. They won't make Putin recover his sanity except in our dreams. The reality is that we are powerless to save Ukraine from Russia or Russia from itself. Nuclear weapons serve only two purposes in the modern world: deterrence or suicide.

DoD spokesperson Kirby explained MiGs aren't the solution because there is so much surface to air capabilities on both sides, there's not a lot of flying going on. It sounds like they might do more harm than good in drawing NATO closer into conflict with Russia.
I know Zelensky wants them and a no-fly zone but I'm inclined to go with the recommendations of the US military and all their intel and surveillance capabilities over Zelensky. I know he's there on the ground but I question what kind of information (or the lack of) he could be getting from his military.