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Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

Kyiv, Ukraine (CNN)"I want to tell our commander-in-chief to stop terror acts in Ukraine because when we come back we'll rise against him."
Russian President Vladimir Putin "has given orders to commit crimes. It's not just to demilitarize Ukraine or defeat the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but now cities of peaceful civilians are being destroyed."
"The crimes that we committed; we all will be judged."
These are the voices of Russian prisoners of war now held by Ukraine.

Nearly a dozen have appeared in news conferences held by the Ukrainian authorities, just a few of the 600 that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says have been captured.
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At a different media briefing in the same venue, a reconnaissance officer called Vladimir who had been captured told a group of international reporters, "Our government told us we need to liberate the civilian population. I want to tell Russian servicemen: lay down your arms and leave your stations, don't come here. Everyone wants peace here."
Vladimir then went a big step further, saying: "I want to tell our commander-in-chief to stop terror acts in Ukraine because when we come back we'll rise against him."
Another reconnaissance officer at the same event echoed the sentiment, addressing Putin directly.
"You won't hide this for long. There are many like us here. Sooner or later, we'll come home."
Speaking to CNN, Maxim, the pilot, became emotional about the suffering inflicted on civilians since the invasion.

"It's not just about demilitarizing Ukraine or the defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but now cities of peaceful civilians are being destroyed. Even, I don't know, what can justify, f**k, the tears of a child, or even worse, the deaths of innocent people, children."
He said they were aware of what had happened in places like Mariupol, where nearly 1,600 people have been killed since the invasion began.
"It was a horrifying fact, not just because it is a crime. It's vandalism. You cannot forgive such things. To bomb a maternity ward?" he said.
"It's the most perverse f**king form of neo-Nazism, neo-fascism. Who could think of such a thing?"
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Of course, if Russia yanked some Ukrainian POWs out in front of a camera to say otherwise, we wouldn't even think second of ignoring it as propaganda. I hope these are legitimate statements from Russian soldiers who were lied to by their Government. It means their humanity provides us a chance at this not getting out of hand.
 
Trausti said:
Then they’ll never get the territory they recently lost back. They’ll say uncle. They already nixed NATO membership.
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Any decision made by the current Ukrainian government to say no to NATO does not bind a future government. It might take years but eventually Ukraine will ask to join NATO.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
ZiprHead said:

Ukrainian refugees. Heartbreaking.
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It's not going to happen. A no-fly zone is a de-facto declaration of war on Russia. Enforcing it could easily end up with WWIII.
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I’m trying to picture this WWIII. Does China throw in with Russia? Is that the scenario? Do Russian forces march across Europe? All nuclear options aside, in a world where NATO or perhaps the UN (not sure how that works) makes clear its intentions to remove Russian forces from Ukraine, how is this WWIII? The use of nuclear weapons is not WWIII, it’s epilogue so I’m not going to address that. Right now we effectively have an Adam Lanza in Vladimir Putin killing mothers and children.
So if Putin were to attack a NATO country do we then risk WWIII? Is that the difference here, a piece of paper saves the mothers and children of Lithuania but not Ukraine? I can’t do that. That is not a reason, it’s an excuse.
The ultimatum is here now. Do we hang our heads and wait for Adam Lanza to run out ammunition?
Conventionally speaking, there is no WWIII. WWIII was based on the assumption Putin had a military much more effective than the one we are seeing today. His military forces are shit.
I suppose we can wait for economic sanctions and the truth trickling into Russia to stop Putin. However long that takes.
That exchange between US and Poland with the MiGs was an embarrassment for NATO. If Zelensky looked to the West and called us cowards, he would not be wrong.
 
TV and credit cards said:
Loren Pechtel said:
ZiprHead said:

Ukrainian refugees. Heartbreaking.
Click to expand...


It's not going to happen. A no-fly zone is a de-facto declaration of war on Russia. Enforcing it could easily end up with WWIII.
Click to expand...

I’m trying to picture this WWIII. Does China throw in with Russia? Is that the scenario? Do Russian forces march across Europe? All nuclear options aside, in a world where NATO or perhaps the UN (not sure how that works) makes clear its intentions to remove Russian forces from Ukraine, how is this WWIII? The use of nuclear weapons is not WWIII, it’s epilogue so I’m not going to address that. Right now we effectively have an Adam Lanza in Vladimir Putin killing mothers and children.
So if Putin were to attack a NATO country do we then risk WWIII? Is that the difference here, a piece of paper saves the mothers and children of Lithuania but not Ukraine? I can’t do that. That is not a reason, it’s an excuse.
The ultimatum is here now. Do we hang our heads and wait for Adam Lanza to run out ammunition?
Conventionally speaking, there is no WWIII. WWIII was based on the assumption Putin had a military much more effective than the one we are seeing today. His military forces are shit.
I suppose we can wait for economic sanctions and the truth trickling into Russia to stop Putin. However long that takes.
That exchange between US and Poland with the MiGs was an embarrassment for NATO. If Zelensky looked to the West and called us cowards, he would not be wrong.
Click to expand...

I'd say Russia's threat to the free world is destruction. Russia can't occupy Ukraine, forget Europe.

Meanwhile, China, while not condemning Russia, is clearly not not condemning Russia, which is diplomatic speak for... they aren't too happy with Russia. Xi and China have plans and I doubt they see how this helps their plans move forward. The only reason Russia isn't getting blitzed by NATO at the moment is Western restraint. And if NATO went to act, they'd slaughter the Russian Army. China most likely doesn't see the benefits of siding with the loser here. But with Taiwan off their coast and beckoning reunion (in their minds), they understand precedence. China's restraint here is a decent sign that Ukraine might get out of this one.
 
TV and credit cards said:
So if Putin were to attack a NATO country do we then risk WWIII? Is that the difference here, a piece of paper saves the mothers and children of Lithuania but not Ukraine? I can’t do that. That is not a reason, it’s an excuse.
The ultimatum is here now. Do we hang our heads and wait for Adam Lanza to run out ammunition?
Conventionally speaking, there is no WWIII. WWIII was based on the assumption Putin had a military much more effective than the one we are seeing today. His military forces are shit.
I suppose we can wait for economic sanctions and the truth trickling into Russia to stop Putin. However long that takes.
That exchange between US and Poland with the MiGs was an embarrassment for NATO. If Zelensky looked to the West and called us cowards, he would not be wrong.
Click to expand...

If we want to establish air patrols over Ukraine we would have to take down the air defenses well into Russia.
 
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ZiprHead said:
Ahnold speaks to Russians. Apparently Russians love Mr. Schwarzenegger. He was a disaster as a governor but when he speaks to people like this I can't help but love the guy.

...
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A very powerful message. Too bad that most Russians won't be seeing it in the near future. Even our own Russian member here seems to have been knocked off the internet, so it will only be circulated among a limited group of people within Russia.
 

“It notes, too, that Ukraine's air defence continues to be effective, having shot down 10 Russian aircraft on Wednesday alone.

According to Ukrainian intelligence, Russia may have expended nearly its entire store of precision cruise missiles in the first 20 days of its invasion.

Meanwhile, low morale is being reported among Syrian recruits, including several cases of self-mutilation to avoid fighting.

Many mercenaries see deployment to the region as a chance to desert and migrate to the EU, according to Ukrainian intelligence.”

Russia has really fucked up. No more cruise missiles? CNN TV reports that they’re even running out of missiles. They’re really wasting their military capacity away. A few more weeks and they really won’t have much of a military. We need to get them more and more weapons as rapidly as possible. Especially serious anti air defense.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
TV and credit cards said:
So if Putin were to attack a NATO country do we then risk WWIII? Is that the difference here, a piece of paper saves the mothers and children of Lithuania but not Ukraine? I can’t do that. That is not a reason, it’s an excuse.
The ultimatum is here now. Do we hang our heads and wait for Adam Lanza to run out ammunition?
Conventionally speaking, there is no WWIII. WWIII was based on the assumption Putin had a military much more effective than the one we are seeing today. His military forces are shit.
I suppose we can wait for economic sanctions and the truth trickling into Russia to stop Putin. However long that takes.
That exchange between US and Poland with the MiGs was an embarrassment for NATO. If Zelensky looked to the West and called us cowards, he would not be wrong.
Click to expand...

If we want to establish air patrols over Ukraine we would have to take down the air defenses well into Russia.
Click to expand...
Well, hopefully the Switchblade 300 & 600 drones we’re sending to Ukrainians will help take out Russian systems within not only Ukraine but Russia depending on proximity. Is it okay if Ukrainian forces take the fight to Russia or is this too one of Putin’s red lines not to be crossed while he kills the defenseless?

And hopefully there are more creative arrows in the US defense industry’s quiver. I’ll bet there are.
 
TV and credit cards said:
Loren Pechtel said:
TV and credit cards said:
So if Putin were to attack a NATO country do we then risk WWIII? Is that the difference here, a piece of paper saves the mothers and children of Lithuania but not Ukraine? I can’t do that. That is not a reason, it’s an excuse.
The ultimatum is here now. Do we hang our heads and wait for Adam Lanza to run out ammunition?
Conventionally speaking, there is no WWIII. WWIII was based on the assumption Putin had a military much more effective than the one we are seeing today. His military forces are shit.
I suppose we can wait for economic sanctions and the truth trickling into Russia to stop Putin. However long that takes.
That exchange between US and Poland with the MiGs was an embarrassment for NATO. If Zelensky looked to the West and called us cowards, he would not be wrong.
Click to expand...

If we want to establish air patrols over Ukraine we would have to take down the air defenses well into Russia.
Click to expand...
Well, hopefully the Switchblade 300 & 600 drones we’re sending to Ukrainians will help take out Russian systems within not only Ukraine but Russia depending on proximity. Is it okay if Ukrainian forces take the fight to Russia or is this too one of Putin’s red lines not to be crossed while he kills the defenseless?

And hopefully there are more creative arrows in the US defense industry’s quiver. I’ll bet there are.
Click to expand...
Those are defensive weapons. They don't have a long range. But they are designed by locals to go after artillery and tanks (offensive weapons) and support vehicles. The best way to save civilians is to take out as many Russian artillery and tanks as possible.
 
I wonder if those drones can hit ships near Odessa?
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Jayjay said:
I wonder if those drones can hit ships near Odessa?
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Anti-ship warheads are usually a lot bigger.
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Considering the performance of the Russian Army, can their navy be much better? If the opportunity presented itself, I'd try to put one of those armor piercing 600 drones through the hull or into the superstructure. Perhaps paints and greases stored in workspaces, poorly maintained firefighting equipment, poorly trained personnel compounded by low morale (sailors running away from the fire instead of towards it), may just sink a ship.
 
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