He clearly never wanted all of Ukraine. Just the bits disputed before, and a land corridor from Crimea to the Donbas. Seems to have that now. The costs have been so high he's probably done.
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Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics
- Thread starter Rhea
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Yeah. If the Russians really wanted Kyiv, they'd have it. That would have been the focus. But the real battles were in the South and East. Russia can't keep Kyiv - too many Ukrainians. The Crimea and Donbas, on the other hand, lots of compliant Russians.
What is the strategic value of Mariupol? Other than a land corridor between Crimea and Donbas?
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Are you feigning ignorance or are you just ignorant of Russia and the regional geopolitics?
Russian trateguc signifigabce'. The Internet is your friend.
If Kyiv was the goal, Russia would have moved north from Crimea. Instead, its Crimea forces went east toward the Donbas.
Elixir
Made in America
Such laughable ignorance and insatiable appetite for Tucker’s Pootery.
It was the focus, they tried to take Kyiv and they failed (so far).
They are reduced to indiscriminate shelling and bombing of civilians, which is criminal.
Pootey is in too deep now. Either he gets Ukraine to surrender or he is toast. And he knows it. He can’t even manufacture dirt on the Bidens to any effect that will help him. There aren’t enough stupid Murkins to sucker for Pootey’s Orange lackey again, and there is no other Republican that is as kompromatted as the traitor Trump. So …
Poor Tucker.
Oh, come on. Why bother with the east and south? And the Russians were slow in the north, almost purposely so. They wanted everyone to know they were there. Forcing the Ukrainians to commit forces away from the east and south.
TV and credit cards
Contributor
Elixir
Made in America
Seriously? Have you never read ANYTHING by Pootey or about Pootey?
HE WANTS TO RECONSTITUTE THE SOVIET EMPIRE. HE EVEN SAYS SO.
You obviously learned everything you know about Putin and Russia from Trump and his suckers’ network.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Again you are not paying attention to reporting. For decades Putin said his goal is to restore the (imagined) glory and power of the Soviet Union. More recently he said explicitly Unitarian is part of Russia and giving it indeoendence was a mistake, and Ukraine has no right to exist. Russia agreed to Ukrainian integrity for giving up nukes.
The goal is subjugation of Ukraine. Negotiation is pointless. He is doing exactly what the Soviets did. He is already trying to install puppet mayors.
Mariupol is a port city.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
I am wondering if Putin is actualy in complete control of his militray.
Hermit
Cantankerous grump
He clearly did. This is evident in his speech on February 21, 2022. You can find a transcript of it, translated into English by the Kremlin here. Although the occasion was the announcement to recognise the independence and sovereignty of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic, Putin made it clear in his 55 minute ramble that he regards the entire Ukraine as an inalienable part of Russia, that hiving it off as a separate entity was Lenin's mistake, and that he refuses to regard Ukraine as having ever been a nation in its own right. What exactly could the practical consequences of Putin's pronouncements be, other than the eventual reabsorption (in Putin's view) of all of Ukraine into Russia?
Some highlights:
"Ukraine is not just a neighbouring country for us. It is an inalienable part of our own history, culture and spiritual space."
"Since time immemorial, the people living in the south-west of what has historically been Russian land have called themselves Russians and Orthodox Christians. This was the case before the 17th century, when a portion of this territory rejoined the Russian state, and after."
"modern Ukraine was entirely created by Russia"
"When it comes to the historical destiny of Russia and its peoples, Lenin’s principles of state development were not just a mistake; they were worse than a mistake"
"Soviet Ukraine is the result of the Bolsheviks’ policy and can be rightfully called “Vladimir Lenin’s Ukraine.” He was its creator and architect."
"Let me repeat that these territories were transferred along with the population of what was historically Russia."
"Ukraine actually never had stable traditions of real statehood."
"A stable statehood has never developed in Ukraine;"
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Sorry, but I disagree just as strongly with you, if you are missing what Hitler was all about. I do think that Putin fits into the Hitler/Stalin class of tyrants, and what he is doing in Ukraine is arguably genocidal. The reasons behind this war are eerily similar to Hitler's motives for annexing the Sudetenland and then pursuing his racist war against the Slavs, which Hitler mentioned in Mein Kampf. In fact, that rivalry between Germany and Russia went back well before Hitler came on the scene, pan-Slavism being one of the main drivers behind the outbreak of WWI. Putin's "One People" drive is all about incorporating Belarus and Ukraine into a single Slavic nation called "Russia", and his Final Solution for doing that is to cleanse Ukraine of its population of anti-Russian nationalists, aka "neo-Nazis" in his rhetoric. This war is very much a continuation of a very old ethnic rivalry with its roots in the history of a pre-Mongol Kievan Rus' nation.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
I believe in Mein Kemph he targets Ukraine for German expansion. While he made a non agression pact with Stalin, he never intended to keep it. He considered the Russians inferior.
The Autobahn was intended to be throughout the new empire, and the Volkswagen(People's Car) was intended as cheap transportation.
Depopulate and colonize. The Ukrainians initially saw the Germans as liberators from the Soviets.
What is happening in Ukraine is analogous to the German terror bombing of British cities. The Blitz.
The Autobahn was intended to be throughout the new empire, and the Volkswagen(People's Car) was intended as cheap transportation.
Depopulate and colonize. The Ukrainians initially saw the Germans as liberators from the Soviets.
What is happening in Ukraine is analogous to the German terror bombing of British cities. The Blitz.
Jayjay
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"He only wants that tiny bit" is what people thought about Hitler too.
Putin may have to settle for Crimea, Donbas and whatever land falls between the two, but I think it's clear that he would have preferred also Odessa, Kharkiv, and other areas with sizeable Russian-speaking populations. Also taking Odessa would connect the Russian-occupied Transnistria to his empire, and denied Ukraine access to the Black Sea. I agree with you that even Putin probably realized he shouldn't try to swallow Kyiv, but he probably was hoping to occupy it temporarily and cut off the head of the enemy for a quick victory. To everyone's surprise, it didn't turn out to be that easy.
I think Putin is certainly in the same category as Hitler, Stalin or other imperialist war mongering dictators of the past, and it's fair to say that. But at the same time we ought to recognize that what Hitler did and was aspiring to do was much worse in magnitude. On the other hand, Putin has nuclear weapons and can't be stopped like Hitler.
I think his problem is a disconnect between his understanding of the situation and the reality. He's telling them to do things they can't accomplish.
Jimmy Higgins
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A Potemkin Military.
SLD
Contributor
The problem for Putin isn’t what he’s managed to conquer so far, but what he can HOLD. He might sort of occupy this land bridge between Crimea and Donbas, but he will be consistently harassed and threatened by Ukrainian forces to the north of this bridge. He can’t control the internal population although he might try to repopulate the area. But who the fuck in Russia is going to want to move there? Thus he will be forced to waste manpower trying to hold unfriendly areas while Ukrainians just bleed his army dry.
They will never fully incorporate these areas into Russia. This ends when Putin ends. But that could last for some time to come. I wonder if Zelensky has assassination or poison squads after Putin?
They will never fully incorporate these areas into Russia. This ends when Putin ends. But that could last for some time to come. I wonder if Zelensky has assassination or poison squads after Putin?