Merged So what's next for Trump?

[lpetrich]

More of After Trump’s indictment, the “lock her up” brigade feigns horror over “political prosecution” | Media Matters for America

Trumpists similarly spent months declaring that the “real collusion” had been between Russia and Clinton, not Trump, citing her purportedly criminal role in the U.S. government's decision not to block the sale of the company known as Uranium One. Under pressure from Fox and the then-president, then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions appointed U.S. attorney John Huber to investigate in November 2017. But after a two-year probe, Huber concluded his work without recommending any criminal charges.

One has to ask what makes Hillary Clinton such an ogre for the right wing. Just like Fiona when an ogre in Shrek: Fiona | WikiShrek | Fandom Could this be a part of right-wingers making ogres out of prominent Democrats? Or could this be something more?

Many of the same Trump sycophants filled the 2016 presidential campaign with overwrought claims about purportedly illegal behavior linked to the Clinton Foundation. But while the Justice Department under Trump reportedly continued a probe of the organization “long past when F.B.I. agents and prosecutors knew it was a dead end,” it was ultimately closed without charges in the final days of his administration.

And of course, Trumpists on Fox and elsewhere have never stopped claiming that Clinton should have gone to prison over her use of a private email server as secretary of state.

 

[lpetrich]

Pence on Trump's 2nd indictment: 'I'm deeply troubled,' but 'no one is above the law' - POLITICO

“I’m deeply troubled to see this indictment move forward,” Pence said in an interview to conservative talk radio host Hugh Hewitt. “Yesterday on the road in Iowa, I had said I had hoped that the DOJ would see it’s way clearer not to move forward here. But let me be very clear: No one is above the law.”

However, MP promises a purge of the DOJ.

Pence also promised in the interview to “clean house at the highest levels of the Justice Department.”

“I just think we need a whole new team,” Pence said. “I think there’s been literally a collapse of confidence. Like we have to have confidence in our institutions in this country. We have to have confidence in the rule of law.”

Then,

“Look, this is a sad day for America to see a former president of the United States facing indictment under federal law,” he added. “And again, I think it sends a divisive message across the country, and a terrible message across the wider world.”

That's not exactly rule of law.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Why were all these boxes even available for him to take with him anyway? Is the White House typically where the government keeps all its classified documents?

I'd be amazed if the White House doesn't have a SCIF installed somewhere.

I’m not saying they don’t have a SCIF, which of course they would, but it just seems from the photos to be an incredible amount of boxes of documents.

Trump doesn’t even read. He needed PowerPoint slides with his name on them to keep him interested in briefings, right? Why were all these documents being kept there anyway?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It can go in a number of directions. Possibly the easiest explanation is that he wanted them because he could take them and they didn't belong to him. Then on the other side of the spectrum was he kept a lot of documents so that foreign handlers could see them. Honestly, either option seems quite possible. He'd have no other reason to have nuke secrets than to either have nuke secrets or leak nuke secrets. That they were scattered across his property could imply intentional easy access for handlers to get to them without it being "suspicious" or that Trump is a fucking idiot. And it is quite possible that it wasn't intentional, but because of the "fucking idiot" part, these docs were flapping in the wind for any foreign asset to sneak a cleaner into his golf course to get them. If the FBI knew these were there, it is certainly feasible other nations did as well.

I want to know how he was able to procure so many of these things and no one noticed. the hording Did he have a box in the Oval Office for "keep" that he kept filling as the year went on?

 

[Elixir]

Possibly the easiest explanation is that he wanted them because he could take them and they didn't belong to him. Then on the other side of the spectrum was he kept a lot of documents so that foreign handlers could see them.

It’s not that complicated.
Trump has never foregone an opportunity to monetize ANYTHING.
He grabbed as much shit as possible and was going through it to see what he could sell, what he could use for blackmail, what his benefactors in Russia and Saudi Arabia might want, what might impress his underlings etc.
Did y’all forget he’s Donald Trump?

As for what’s next …

 

[lpetrich]

"No one's above the law, but...": Pence says DOJ shouldn't indict Trump over "unique circumstances" | Salon.com

During the CNN town hall on the same day he announced his bid for the oval office in Iowa, Pence responded to a question from moderator Dana Bash about the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case, admitting that while he didn't know the facts of the probe, "what we've got to have in this country is equal treatment under the law."

But when Bash asked if federal investigators should pursue an indictment of Trump if they have enough evidence to support the accusations, Pence seemingly backtracked on his stance.

"Well, I would hope not," he said, repeating a common defense among Trump's camp of defenders that it would be "terribly divisive to the country."

"I hope the DOJ thinks better of it and resolves these issues without an indictment," Pence added.

DB quickly noticed the inconsistency.

"Sir, I just want to clarify. What you're saying is that if they believe he committed a crime, they should not go forward with an indictment?" she asked. "You just talked before about committing to the rule of law."

"Let me be clear that no one's above the law, but with regard to the unique circumstances here," Pence responded with a pause before continuing.

"I had no business having classified documents in my residence, and I took full responsibility for it," he said. "President Biden had no business having them in his residence from when he was vice president as well. And the same with former President Trump.

"But I would just hope that there would be a way for them to move forward without the dramatic and drastic and divisive step of indicting a former president of the United States. We've got to find a way to move our country forward and restore confidence in equal treatment under the law in this country. We really do," he concluded.

DB then asked him if he would pardon Trump if Trump was found guilty of some crime.

"Well, I don't want to speak about hypotheticals. I'm not sure I'm going to be elected president of the United States," Pence said before dismissing Dana's question with more jokes.

"There are real issues the American people are facing," he added. "Rather than talking about that, I want to talk about what the people in Iowa are talking about, which is the failed policies of the Biden administration."

Mike Sington on Twitter: "Huh? Mike Pence says we’re “the symbol of justice”, and “no one’s above the law”, but Trump shouldn’t be indicted. (Video: CNN) (vid link)" / Twitter

Mike Sington on Twitter: "Mike Pence is asked, if elected President, would he pardon Donald Trump. Spoiler alert: He squirms and won’t answer. (Video: CNN) (vid link)" / Twitter

MP seems like he wants it both ways, to support the rule of law, even if it means punishing his former boss, and to get the Trumpie vote, even if doing so makes a big exception in the rule of law.

The Recount on Twitter: "Former VP Mike Pence (R) hits Donald Trump in some of his strongest public terms yet:
“Anyone who asks someone else to put them over the Constitution should never be president of the United States again.” (vid link)" / Twitter
Presumably Donald Trump, but without mentioning him by name.

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. JIm Jordan's defense of Trump. He is currently leading the Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government | House Judiciary Committee Republicans meaning what he calls the persecution of his fellow Republicans.

Victor Shi on Twitter: "Watch that moment here. Jim Jordan tried to come and spew lies on her show, but Dana Bash wasn’t having it for a second. And she’s exactly right; NOTHING Jim Jordan said this morning made sense. (vid link)" / Twitter

Victor Shi on Twitter: "Here’s another moment of true absurdity. Jim Jordan suggested that Trump declassified all the documents. False. And Dana Bash corrected him on the spot saying Trump admitted to not declassifying documents. More of this please CNN. (vid link)" / Twitter

Victor Shi on Twitter: "Basically, I know CNN has problems, but Dana Bash is truly one of the best. She came prepared this morning & wasn’t afraid to expose Jim Jordan’s lies to his face & it was a needed moment. I only hope they will now do that on every program. This is what our democracy needs." / Twitter

Kevin M. Kruse on Twitter: "Jim Jordan, once again showing he’ll ignore any crime that takes place with a shower nearby" / Twitter
noting
Aaron Rupar on Twitter: "Jim Jordan: "If he wants to store material in a box in a bathroom, in he wants to store it in a box on a stage, he can do it." (vid link)" / Twitter

Aaron Rupar on Twitter: "Jim Jordan repeatedly insists to Dana Bash that Trump declassified everything, *even though Trump himself is on tape saying he didn't do that.* Astounding stuff. Jordan then pivots to Hillary's emails. (vid link)" / Twitter

Storing boxes of documents in bathrooms and ballrooms is *not* recommended procedure, contrary to what JJ seems to be saying.

 

[Artemus]

I just deleted a post asking about why the audio recordings of Trump used in the indictment existed in the first place, but found the answer at Politico:

One of Trump’s aides routinely taped the interviews he gave for books being written about him that year, according to The New York Times.

He knew he was being recorded but said it anyway. It honestly never occurred to me that anyone, even Trump, could be that stupid.

He was such a danger to the country. And yet, some people want to elect him again.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Maybe Trump is just senile.

 

[lpetrich]

nameless faceless bureaucrat on Twitter: "@KevinMKruse He can ..." / Twitter

He can store them in a box
He can store them without locks
He can read them in the can
He can tweet them to a fan

Maureen McCabe on Twitter: "@anon_bureaucrat @KevinMKruse Said Gym I im" / Twitter

Dr. Seuss:  Green Eggs and Ham

Sarah Reese Jones on Twitter: "Q: Do you have evidence that the president actually declassified these documents?
Jim Jordan: I go on the president's word. He said he did.
So that is no to evidence of declassification from Jordan. (vid link)" / Twitter
He talks and talks and talks as a substitute for giving a straight answer.

Victor Shi on Twitter: "BOOM. Dana Bash just told Jim Jordan live on air, “What you’re saying makes no sense.” The perfect response to someone who lies & tries to destroy democracy. We need more anchors doing this & calling out these far-right extremists. Give it up for Dana." / Twitter

 

[Copernicus]

He was such a danger to the country. And yet, some people want to elect him again.

According to FiveThirtyEight, their poll average has him with a favorability rating that hovers roughly between 40% and 45%. His disapproval rating is about 15 points higher. In a presidential race, he could still win because Electoral College. Most of his core support is in states where individual voters get a bigger say in a presidential election than in the rest of the country.

 

[Shadowy Man]

. Most of his core support is in states where individual voters get a bigger say in a presidential election than in the rest of the country.

Yet most of the elections come down to a few swing states, which Trump notably lost in 2020, often because people who voted for other Republican candidates on their ballots refused to vote for President, leaving him quite shy in votes. What’s the likelihood these people will change tune in ‘24 and close to vote for him after opting out last time, especially now after getting indicted for many crimes?

 

[Elixir]

What’s the likelihood these people will change tune in ‘24 and close to vote for him after opting out last time, especially now after getting indicted for many crimes?

My calculus is that Agent Orange has lost upwards of a million votes on January 6, 2021. His antics since then probably cost him a couple million more. On the plus side, I’m sure he has picked up a handful of votes by screaming “UNFAIR!!”. So, on balance his support should be at or just below his losing threshold of 2020.
If that is sufficient to give him a victory, that’s 100% on us.

 

[bilby]

Trump doesn’t even read. He needed PowerPoint slides with his name on them to keep him interested in briefings, right? Why were all these documents being kept there anyway?

So he could show off.

In Trump world, you're either in, or you're out; A winner, or a loser.

Having Top Secret documents to brag about, and to show off to those you wish to impress, is a very clear message that you're still someone.

Trump needs that like a junky needs heroin. Being a former President is going to be very difficult for someone like that, for whom any step away from greater power is painful.

Retaining access to, and power over, things that other world leaders covet but cannot have (or can only have through the favour of the Great and Powerful Trump) goes some way toward easing that pain.

Btw, this is exactly the kind of psychological profile that should immediately debar any individual from being given any kind of security clearance.

 

[TomC]

Trump needs that like a junky needs heroin. Being a former President is going to be very difficult for someone like that, for whom any step away from greater power is painful.

I gave this post a like, because I'm confident that it's true, as far as it goes.

But Trump is also well known for predatory monetizing and the ability to sell access to those documents(also known as treason) could be hugely beneficial financially to a struggling billionaire.
And his kids and lawyers and foreign friends...
Tom

 

[Copernicus]

. Most of his core support is in states where individual voters get a bigger say in a presidential election than in the rest of the country.

Yet most of the elections come down to a few swing states, which Trump notably lost in 2020, often because people who voted for other Republican candidates on their ballots refused to vote for President, leaving him quite shy in votes. What’s the likelihood these people will change tune in ‘24 and close to vote for him after opting out last time, especially now after getting indicted for many crimes?

But Republican state legislatures have moved to undermine fair elections in some states that had them in 2020. They even have implemented laws that allow the state legislature to override, or alter the results of, a popular vote. I don't know if they can succeed with that tactic, since it has yet to be tested in the Supreme Court, but that Court has already chosen to help a Republican win the presidency in the past, when the Supreme Court was arguably less politically extremist. That could become a decisive factor in the 2024 electoral count. Basically, the Republican strategy has been to use state governments and the Supreme Court to trump democracy. I'm not yet convinced that they have succeeded, but they've come close.

 

[bilby]

Trump needs that like a junky needs heroin. Being a former President is going to be very difficult for someone like that, for whom any step away from greater power is painful.

I gave this post a like, because I'm confident that it's true, as far as it goes.

But Trump is also well known for predatory monetizing and the ability to sell access to those documents(also known as treason) could be hugely beneficial financially to a struggling billionaire.
And his kids and lawyers and foreign friends...
Tom

I agree that there's absolutely no reason why it can't be both.

But I generally try not to assume malice, when incompetence is a sufficient explanation.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Trump doesn’t even read. He needed PowerPoint slides with his name on them to keep him interested in briefings, right? Why were all these documents being kept there anyway?

So he could show off.

In Trump world, you're either in, or you're out; A winner, or a loser.

Having Top Secret documents to brag about, and to show off to those you wish to impress, is a very clear message that you're still someone.

Trump needs that like a junky needs heroin. Being a former President is going to be very difficult for someone like that, for whom any step away from greater power is painful.

Retaining access to, and power over, things that other world leaders covet but cannot have (or can only have through the favour of the Great and Powerful Trump) goes some way toward easing that pain.

Btw, this is exactly the kind of psychological profile that should immediately debar any individual from being given any kind of security clearance.

I understand all of this but I’m questioning government practices that allow a President to accumulate secret documents in the White House. Maybe that’s normal I don’t know.

 

[TomC]

I understand all of this but I’m questioning government practices that allow a President to accumulate secret documents in the White House. Maybe that’s normal I don’t know.

But the problem isn't what was in the White House. It's what Trump&Co took to an unsecured hotel in Florida.

And frankly, at this level of treason "Innocent until proven Guilty" kinda goes out the window IMHO. It's more like "Go to prison until you can prove you didn't sell out the USA"
Tom

 

[Ford]

I understand all of this but I’m questioning government practices that allow a President to accumulate secret documents in the White House. Maybe that’s normal I don’t know.

But the problem isn't what was in the White House. It's what Trump&Co took to an unsecured hotel in Florida.

And frankly, at this level of treason "Innocent until proven Guilty" kinda goes out the window IMHO. It's more like "Go to prison until you can prove you didn't sell out the USA"
Tom

And again, with feeling...

If this were anyone else, they'd be held not necessarily because they're "guilty until proven innocent," but rather because they'd be both a flight risk and a national security risk. If it were anyone else and they were given the opportunity Trump has, they'd already be in Moscow or some other place beyond the reach of US federal law enforcement.

But it's Trump, and he's both too stupid and self-absorbed to realize just how much trouble he's gotten himself into.