Merged So what's next for Trump?

[Shadowy Man]

I understand all of this but I’m questioning government practices that allow a President to accumulate secret documents in the White House. Maybe that’s normal I don’t know.

But the problem isn't what was in the White House. It's what Trump&Co took to an unsecured hotel in Florida.

I understand that. But he was able to take it because he was moving out of the White House and told someone to grab those boxes. I’m wondering about what led to him having all those boxes of documents in the White House in the first place.

Is it common practice for the intelligence agencies to bring compartmentalized documents to the White House and then just leave them there?

 

[Shadowy Man]

But it's Trump, and he's both too stupid and self-absorbed to realize just how much trouble he's gotten himself into.

He also thinks, rightfully so, that he has political cover. Who else would have so many members of Congress running interference for him? Or have sympathetic judges he can get his cases in front of?

 

[Elixir]

Or have sympathetic judges he can get his cases in front of?

I cannot begin to understand ANY ideology that comports with the crimes alleged in the indictment. Last time it looked like Cannon was returning a favor, and it cost her in the higher court. If Judge Cannon can sit through what’s coming and still believe that sabotaging the case furthers an ideology or law, I would love to know what that ideology or law might be. The only way IMO is if the fix is in, or she finds threats to herself and her family are credible, believes reprisals could be imminent and decides to knuckle under to the mob.

 

[TomC]

Or have sympathetic judges he can get his cases in front of?

I cannot begin to understand ANY ideology that comports with the crimes alleged in the indictment. Last time it looked like Cannon was returning a favor, and it cost her in the higher court. If Judge Cannon can sit through what’s coming and still believe that sabotaging the case furthers an ideology or law, I would love to know what that ideology or law might be. The only way IMO is if the fix is in, or she finds threats to herself and her family are credible, believes reprisals could be imminent and decides to knuckle under to the mob.

I still want to know why Cannon was assigned this case, and by who.
Tom

 

[Ford]

Or have sympathetic judges he can get his cases in front of?

I cannot begin to understand ANY ideology that comports with the crimes alleged in the indictment. Last time it looked like Cannon was returning a favor, and it cost her in the higher court. If Judge Cannon can sit through what’s coming and still believe that sabotaging the case furthers an ideology or law, I would love to know what that ideology or law might be. The only way IMO is if the fix is in, or she finds threats to herself and her family are credible, believes reprisals could be imminent and decides to knuckle under to the mob.

It's hard for us to understand because we don't think like corrupt people.

I was just watching a clip of Bill Barr on the Fox News. He's drawn the ire of Trump (to put it mildly) because he correctly pointed out that his former boss stole documents that did not belong to him, showed them to people who had no business seeing them, and hid them from investigators.

Yet this is the same Bill Barr who read through the entire Mueller Report, saw clear evidence of multiple incidents of obstruction of justice, and swept it all under the rug. "Nope. Nothing to see here. It was all just a witch hunt." He did his job, which (at the time) was to run interference for Trump and act as his defense attorney. For him to be pointing to Trump now and saying "there he is, your honor...that's the real criminal right there" seems bonkers to me, but then...I'm not hopelessly corrupt.

 

[Copernicus]

Or have sympathetic judges he can get his cases in front of?

I cannot begin to understand ANY ideology that comports with the crimes alleged in the indictment. Last time it looked like Cannon was returning a favor, and it cost her in the higher court. If Judge Cannon can sit through what’s coming and still believe that sabotaging the case furthers an ideology or law, I would love to know what that ideology or law might be. The only way IMO is if the fix is in, or she finds threats to herself and her family are credible, believes reprisals could be imminent and decides to knuckle under to the mob.

I still want to know why Cannon was assigned this case, and by who.
Tom

Why: Because of her past involvement with, and knowledge of, details surrounding the evidence cited in the indictment. Under circumstances where judges have prior experience with a case, the assignment is not random. Since Florida has a "rocket docket" process to speed up important trials, this makes sense. I don't know who actually did the assignment.

If Cannon becomes an obvious problem, the prosecution will likely file a motion for recusal. However, getting her removed might not succeed, and it would help Trump run out the clock.

 

[Artemus]

I still want to know why Cannon was assigned this case, and by who.
Tom

Why: Because of her past involvement with, and knowledge of, details surrounding the evidence cited in the indictment. Under circumstances where judges have prior experience with a case, the assignment is not random. Since Florida has a "rocket docket" process to speed up important trials, this makes sense. I don't know who actually did the assignment.

According to the New York Times, The Southern District of Florida chief clerk said that the case had been randomly assigned to her.

 

[Artemus]

And in all this excitement, I almost forgot that the January 6th investigation is still pending. I assume that that is what the D.C. grand jury has been looking at. Any bets on if/when there will be indictments there?

 

[Elixir]

I don't know who actually did the assignment.

There is a rotation that includes four judges of which she is one. It’s random, supposedly. 25% isn’t exactly a long shot.

The more I think about it the more I think Judge Csnnon might well be looking for a chance to redeem herself. After all she was a Federalist Society Trumpsucker nominee, so she should be concerned more with advancing her own interest than in abstractions like justice. So she might go the other way. She might even go too far the other way on purpose, giving herself the best of both worlds and giving her boy grounds for appeal.

 

[Elixir]

And in all this excitement, I almost forgot that the January 6th investigation is still pending. I assume that that is what the D.C. grand jury has been looking at. Any bets on if/when there will be indictments there?

If Judge Cannon signals that she will try to allow every delay and side with the defense, I’m certain that the Special Prosecutor will put the pedal to the metal in in the J6 case.

 

[TomC]

And in all this excitement, I almost forgot that the January 6th investigation is still pending. I assume that that is what the D.C. grand jury has been looking at. Any bets on if/when there will be indictments there?

If Judge Cannon signals that she will try to allow every delay and side with the defense, I’m certain that the Special Prosecutor will put the pedal to the metal in in the J6 case.

And then there're sharks like DeSantis circling the waters.

Pro Tip: Buy popcorn futures.
Tom

 

[Copernicus]

I still want to know why Cannon was assigned this case, and by who.
Tom

Why: Because of her past involvement with, and knowledge of, details surrounding the evidence cited in the indictment. Under circumstances where judges have prior experience with a case, the assignment is not random. Since Florida has a "rocket docket" process to speed up important trials, this makes sense. I don't know who actually did the assignment.

According to the New York Times, The Southern District of Florida chief clerk said that the case had been randomly assigned to her.

My quota of free articles for the NYT is currently exhausted, so I couldn't read your article. However, I can almost always find a source for the same story:

What to know about Aileen Cannon, the judge overseeing Trump's case​

Citing the NYT article, Axios says that

The odds that Cannon would be selected for this case were fairly low.

• There are currently 15 active Federal District Court judges in South Florida, plus 11 with senior status who could be assigned to hear cases, per the New York Times.

More details, including how the randomness might be gamed:

Judge Cannon beat the odds to draw new Trump case; She also got free trip to posh Yellowstone resort from right-wing law school​

 

[lpetrich]

The Trump Documents Case Puts the Justice System on Trial - The New York Times - "The former president’s efforts to defend against multiple felony counts by discrediting law enforcement pose a grave challenge to democracy."

History’s first federal indictment against a former president poses one of the gravest challenges to democracy the country has ever faced. It represents either a validation of the rule-of-law principle that even the most powerful face accountability for their actions or the moment when a vast swath of the public becomes convinced that the system has been irredeemably corrupted by partisanship.

Mr. Trump, his allies and even some of his Republican rivals have embarked on a strategy to encourage the latter view, arguing that law enforcement has been hijacked by President Biden and the Democrats to take out his strongest opponent for re-election next year. Few if any of them bothered to wait to read the indictment before backing Mr. Trump’s all-caps assertion that it was merely part of the “GREATEST WITCH HUNT OF ALL TIME.” It is now an article of faith, a default tactic or both.

Then noting about Special Counsel Jack Smith how careful he and his team have been in building their case.

In the public arena, though, it may be a one-sided fight. Mr. Trump and his allies can scream as loudly as they can that the system is unfair, but prosecutors are bound by rules limiting how much they can say in response. To the extent that Democrats defend prosecutors, it may only buttress the point Mr. Trump is trying to make to the audience he is trying to reach.

“I think the verdict on democracy ultimately comes down to Republican leaders and Republican voters,” said David Jolly, a former Republican congressman from Florida who left the party during the Trump presidency. “Their current weaponization narrative is dangerous and destabilizing, but seems to reflect the party’s early consensus. If they don’t pivot soon to due process and faith in the system, I think we could have very dark days ahead. I do worry.”

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Again, Trump is so guilty just by the fact it has gotten this far. Judges fall over themselves to give the President leeway, but this case includes testimony from his own lawyers! How guilty do you need to be of a crime when your lawyers have provided damning testimony AGAINST YOU?!

I understand all of this but I’m questioning government practices that allow a President to accumulate secret documents in the White House. Maybe that’s normal I don’t know.

But the problem isn't what was in the White House. It's what Trump&Co took to an unsecured hotel in Florida.

And frankly, at this level of treason "Innocent until proven Guilty" kinda goes out the window IMHO. It's more like "Go to prison until you can prove you didn't sell out the USA"
Tom

All things being equal, that indictment pretty much proves he is Guilty. The question is a jury finding him guilty.

 

[lpetrich]

This is unprecedented. Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton defended themselves aggressively, but they did not call into question the whole system.

“In 1972 to 1974, the Republicans participated as good-faith members of the process,” said Garrett Graff, the author of “Watergate: A New History,” published last year. “They saw their roles as legislators first and Republicans second. They definitely were skeptical” initially of the allegations against Nixon, “but they followed the facts where they led.”

Even Nixon’s sharp-tongued vice president, Spiro T. Agnew, was careful about disparaging the justice system broadly. “Agnew, of course, was Nixon’s attack dog, but mainly against the press, not the F.B.I. or the special prosecutor,” Mr. Graff said.

nattering nabobs of negativism - Political Dictionary

“In the United States today, we have more than our share of the nattering nabobs of negativism. They have formed their own 4-H Club — the ‘hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history.'”

Though it was White House speechwriter William Safire who composed those descriptions.

SA also called Vietnam-War protestors "effete snobs".

Mr. Trump, on the other hand, is holding nothing back as he assails “the ‘Thugs’ from the Department of Injustice” and calls Mr. Smith a “deranged lunatic.”

Rep Andy Biggs on Twitter:
"We have now reached a war phase.
Eye for an eye." / Twitter

Elon Musk on Twitter: "@alx There does seem to be far higher interest in pursuing Trump compared to other people in politics.
Very important that the justice system rebut what appears to be differential enforcement or they will lose public trust." / Twitter
then
Ryan Grim on Twitter: "@elonmusk @alx You took an app that was populated in a serious, robust way by people from the left, center and right and in a matter of months, whether by design or by accident, turned it into a right wing playground.
You’re not the one to give advice on building public trust with all sides." / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Then noting

As for seeking to weaponize the Justice Department, there was ample evidence that Mr. Trump sought to do just that while in office. He openly and aggressively pushed his attorneys general to prosecute his perceived enemies and drop cases against his friends and allies, making no pretense that he was seeking equal and independent justice. His friends-and-family approach to his pardon power extended clemency to associates and those who had access to him through them.
He chipped away at so many norms during his four years in office that it is no wonder that institutions have faced credibility problems. Indeed, he has made clear that he does not respect the boundaries that constrained other presidents. Since leaving office, he has called for “termination” of the Constitution so that he could be returned to power without waiting for another election and vowed that he would devote a second term to “retribution” against his foes while pardoning supporters who stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, to stop the transfer of power.

So the charge of weaponizing the Justice Department is pure projection.

DeSantis says Trump a victim of law enforcement 'weaponization' under Biden | Fox News - "DeSantis said his administration would 'will bring accountability to the DOJ...once and for all'"

"The weaponization of federal law enforcement represents a mortal threat to a free society," Florida Governor Ron DeSantis stated Thursday.

"We have for years witnessed an uneven application of the law depending upon political affiliation. Why so zealous in pursuing Trump yet so passive about Hillary or Hunter?"

DeSantis said his administration "will bring accountability to the DOJ, excise political bias and end weaponization once and for all."

Senator Tim Scott, also running for President:

"One thing that makes America a city on the hill is confidence in our justice system. And today, what we see is a justice system where the scales are weighted. That seems to be the outcome of where we are today," Scott said.

"As President of the United States, I would purge all of the injustices and impurities in our system so that every American can have confidence that they will be seen by the lady of justice with a blindfold on. That is what we need in this nation," he said.

Former NJ Governor Chris Christie, also running:

"Let’s see what the facts are when any possible indictment is released. As I have said before, no one is above the law, no matter how much they wish they were. We will have more to say when the facts are revealed," Christie said.

 

[lpetrich]

Also,

Former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson called for Trump to end his campaign saying, "With the news that Donald Trump has been indicted for the second time, our country finds itself in a position that weakens our democracy."

"Donald Trump's actions - from his willful disregard for the Constitution to his disrespect for the rule of law - should not define our nation or the Republican Party. This is a sad day for our country," he continued.

"While Donald Trump is entitled to the presumption of innocence, the ongoing criminal proceedings will be a major distraction. This reaffirms the need for Donald Trump to respect the office and end his campaign, he said.

 

[lpetrich]

Mike Pence: Justice Department will not seek criminal charges in classified document probe | CNN Politics

Pence on Trump's 2nd indictment: 'I'm deeply troubled,' but 'no one is above the law' - POLITICO

Trump: The indictment is a ‘joke’ - POLITICO - "The former president made clear he’ll fight the charges on political grounds."

In his first public remarks since a magistrate judge unsealed the damning case against him, Trump made clear that his best — and perhaps primary — defense against the charges will be waged in arenas before friendly audiences rather than in the courtroom.

The former president sought to galvanize his supporters to view the entire American justice system as corrupt, weaponized to target conservatives and deployed to prevent him from winning the 2024 election. The indictment, he said, was a “joke,” done only because Democrats feared him.

“These people don’t stop and they’re bad and we have to get rid of them,” Trump said to an audience assembled by the Georgia Republican Party. “These criminals cannot be rewarded. They must be defeated.”

...
Trump made no secret of his plan to portray the prosecution against him — brought by special counsel Jack Smith — as secretly engineered by President Joe Biden, though the White House and the Department of Justice have gone to great lengths to keep a wall between them on the matter.

“This is a sick nest of people that needs to be cleaned out,” he proclaimed.

What a victim he is! Right-wingers shout "Don't call yourself a victim!!!" but here he is, doing exactly that. They also call themselves law-and-order, but they make an exception for him.

 

[lpetrich]

Raffensperger calls on GOP to elect ‘principled’ leaders ahead of Trump’s Georgia speech - POLITICO

Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger called on the GOP to “coalesce” and elect “principled” leaders ahead of Donald Trump’s trip to the state Saturday, the former president’s first public appearance since his second criminal indictment.

Raffensperger gained national prominence after his Jan. 2, 2021, phone call with Trump during which the former president asked him to “find” enough votes to secure his victory in the state’s 2020 presidential election vote count.

“The party really has to coalesce and we need to be focused on broad-based coalitions,” Raffensperger said on Fox News, noting his and Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp’s overwhelming victories in the last election. “That’s how you win and that’s how Republicans win not only in Georgia, but nationwide — particularly as things are more competitive.”

Good luck with that. Consider what happened to the 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach him for inciting the January 6 insurrection.

10 House Republicans voted to impeach Trump. Cheney's loss means only 2 made it past their primaries. - POLITICO - 08/16/2022 11:12 PM EDT

• Retired: 4 -- Anthony Gonzalez OH-16, John Katko NY-24, Adam Kinzinger IL-16, Fred Upton MI-06
• Lost primary: 4 -- Liz Cheney WY-01, Jaime Herrera Beutler WA-03, Peter Meijer MI-03, Tom Rice SC-07
• Won primary, won general election: 2 -- Dan Newhouse WA-04, David Valadao CA-22

General-election results: Ballotpedia

That means 1/5 to 1/3 of Republicans are likely to make it past the primaries if they take strong anti-Trump stances.

 

[lpetrich]

Nikki Haley on Twitter:
"This is not how justice should be pursued in our country.
The American people are exhausted by the prosecutorial overreach, double standards, and vendetta politics.
It’s time to move beyond the endless drama and distractions."
/ Twitter

Trump’s 2024 GOP opponents rush to his defense, post indictment- POLITICO - "Vivek Ramaswamy promised to pardon Trump if elected. Ron DeSantis pledged to go after the DOJ."

RDS promised to “bring accountability to the DOJ, excise political bias and end weaponization once and for all.”

VRS:

In a statement late Thursday, the 37-year-old biotech executive echoed Trump’s criticism of the special prosecutor, saying there were “two tiers of justice,” with Trump subject to a different standard than President Joe Biden.

“It would be much easier for me to win this election if Trump weren’t in the race, but I stand for principles over politics. I commit to pardon Trump promptly on January 20, 2025 and to restore the rule of law in our country,” he said.

Pardon him? That doesn't seem very much like rule of law.

"Rather than turn on the ex-president, his party feels compelled to echo his notion that he’s been victimized."

On Thursday, youth activist Charlie Kirk, who runs the influential conservative group Turning Point USA, called on every other ‘24 GOP primary candidate to “suspend their campaign” and go to Miami — where Trump is being summoned — “as a show of support.”

...
Perry Johnson, who is spending from his own fortune on his presidential run, claimed he was the first to call for Biden to pardon Trump, “so the country can move on to the important issues facing the country.”

Chris Christie on Twitter: "We don’t get our news from Trump’s Truth Social account. Let’s see what the facts are when any possible indictment is released. As I have said before, no one is above the law, no matter how much they wish they were. We will have more to say when the facts are revealed." / Twitter