Syria, Turks, and Kurds

[Horatio Parker]

Anyone who opposes taking a mere 50 troops out of Syria.

You've not lost your talent for incoherence.

So you say my opinion of Trump is a lukewarm version of yours?

My guess.

Not to mention if Trump followed US geopolitical interests rather than his own, he could've avoided all conflict, or most of it, by growing a pair and standing up to Erdogan.

IIRC there was an incursion by Turkey a couple of years ago, to prevent separate Kurdish areas from joining up. But it was a brokered incursion, not a license to run wild.

I don't give a damn if North Elbonia and South Elbonia engage in military hostilities against each other.

Neither do I. With hindsight, it's easy to say we should've never been involved in Syria. During the Arab Spring and the rise of ISIS, that wasn't so easily determined. Getting out can be done responsibly or irresponsibly. Trump, acting out of self interest, was irresponsible. It's ignorant to try and turn that self serving action into something noble.

There are two sources of opposition to Trump pulling the troops out. The first hate anything Orange Man does. The second say it is always too early to pull the troops out. Which are you?

I don't know about always, but in this case, too early. Remember, Mr. Opposing All Conflicts(except apparently, Erdogan's), those troops were not engaged. By removing them, conflict was enabled. Yes, I know you don't care about the Elbonians, but nevertheless. My feeling is, since, for better or worse, we're the world's foremost power and deployed practically everywhere, we should act like a leader, especially when it doesn't cost us anything.

 

[Elixir]

There are two sources of opposition to Trump pulling the troops out. The first hate anything Orange Man does. The second say it is always too early to pull the troops out. Which are you?

There's a third source of opposition to what Trump did.
If you know anyone who has served with the Kurds, you really need to talk to them so you know who you're abandoning on the battlefield.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There are two sources of opposition to Trump pulling the troops out. The first hate anything Orange Man does. The second say it is always too early to pull the troops out. Which are you?

I don't know about always, but in this case, too early. Remember, Mr. Opposing All Conflicts(except apparently, Erdogan's), those troops were not engaged. By removing them, conflict was enabled. Yes, I know you don't care about the Elbonians, but nevertheless. My feeling is, since, for better or worse, we're the world's foremost power and deployed practically everywhere, we should act like a leader, especially when it doesn't cost us anything.

Erdogan's government is not the one with jurisdiction over me, so my support or opposition is irrelevant. You seem to think the US has jurisdiction over Turkey. We should be the leader by showing that we don't throw troops around willy-nilly and occasionally smack some small country against the wall. That is the action of a deranged bully. You say the way to be the world leader is to be a deranged bully.

 

[Horatio Parker]

There are two sources of opposition to Trump pulling the troops out. The first hate anything Orange Man does. The second say it is always too early to pull the troops out. Which are you?

I don't know about always, but in this case, too early. Remember, Mr. Opposing All Conflicts(except apparently, Erdogan's), those troops were not engaged. By removing them, conflict was enabled. Yes, I know you don't care about the Elbonians, but nevertheless. My feeling is, since, for better or worse, we're the world's foremost power and deployed practically everywhere, we should act like a leader, especially when it doesn't cost us anything.

Erdogan's government is not the one with jurisdiction over me, so my support or opposition is irrelevant. You seem to think the US has jurisdiction over Turkey. We should be the leader by showing that we don't throw troops around willy-nilly and occasionally smack some small country against the wall. That is the action of a deranged bully. You say the way to be the world leader is to be a deranged bully.

When our troops are acting as a buffer between two hostile parties, preventing conflict, how is that deranged bullying?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Erdogan's government is not the one with jurisdiction over me, so my support or opposition is irrelevant. You seem to think the US has jurisdiction over Turkey. We should be the leader by showing that we don't throw troops around willy-nilly and occasionally smack some small country against the wall. That is the action of a deranged bully. You say the way to be the world leader is to be a deranged bully.

When our troops are acting as a buffer between two hostile parties, preventing conflict, how is that deranged bullying?

Jason, I got this one.

A deranged bully is going to do the opposite of what a bully normally does. Because he's deranged.

So a deranged bully will be nice to people.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

 

[Half-Life]

As has been said numerous times, no one is proud of invading countries for oil. But if we don't, leftists will be the first ones kicking and screaming wondering, "Why is my gas so expensive?!?!? Why are there shortages?!?!?! Why is our lifestyle getting harder?!?!"

 

[PyramidHead]

As has been said numerous times, no one is proud of invading countries for oil. But if we don't, leftists will be the first ones kicking and screaming wondering, "Why is my gas so expensive?!?!? Why are there shortages?!?!?! Why is our lifestyle getting harder?!?!"

Those darn leftists and their... *checks notes* demand for cheap fossil fuels!

 

[Half-Life]

As has been said numerous times, no one is proud of invading countries for oil. But if we don't, leftists will be the first ones kicking and screaming wondering, "Why is my gas so expensive?!?!? Why are there shortages?!?!?! Why is our lifestyle getting harder?!?!"

Those darn leftists and their... *checks notes* demand for cheap fossil fuels!

They use oil to heat their homes in the winter while complaining we use too much oil. I guess they'd rather be warm in the winter instead of save the planet. Being cold in the winter is just too hard.

 

[Keith&Co.]

As has been said numerous times, no one is proud of invading countries for oil. But if we don't, leftists will be the first ones kicking and screaming wondering, "Why is my gas so expensive?!?!? Why are there shortages?!?!?! Why is our lifestyle getting harder?!?!"

You've said this before. Are you ever going to come up with an actual citation for this 'what if' scenario?
Or shall it forever be just you being a troll?

 

[Worldtraveller]

So anyone who opposes having troops everywhere in every conflict out there is a Russian asset again.

Pay attention Jason, I'm only going to teach you this once:

* Do you owe Putin or his oligarch buddies millions, or tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars?
* Did you lie to the public about your involvements in Russian business?
* Does the Russian government have other embarrassing or dangerous information about you with which they could end your career, put you in jail or both?

No to all the above? Then chances are you're not a Russian asset.
I think that would apply to at least 99.999% of us who "oppose having troops everywhere in every conflict out there".

Feel better now?

You might need to use smaller words.

 

[Half-Life]

As has been said numerous times, no one is proud of invading countries for oil. But if we don't, leftists will be the first ones kicking and screaming wondering, "Why is my gas so expensive?!?!? Why are there shortages?!?!?! Why is our lifestyle getting harder?!?!"

You've said this before. Are you ever going to come up with an actual citation for this 'what if' scenario?
Or shall it forever be just you being a troll?

Leftists always complain, Keith. They use gas just like everyone else. The very second this lifestyle gets harder, they will complain. They also don't realize how much money our economy would lose if we stopped selling weapons to foreign regimes. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but our government doing things like this is what enables us to live comfy lifestyles.

 

[Keith&Co.]

They use oil to heat their homes in the winter while complaining we use too much oil.

You know, the guys working to develop the electric lamp had to work by lanterns, right? Exactly because there were no electric lights available.
If the choice is use oil or freeze, obviously we're going to use oil.
So the complaint that we use too much oil INCLUDES a complaint that other heating options are not available, not cost-effective, or not any better for the environment, like coal.
So shove your false dichotomy up your ass, Halfie.

 

[Keith&Co.]

You've said this before. Are you ever going to come up with an actual citation for this 'what if' scenario?
Or shall it forever be just you being a troll?

Leftists always complain, Keith.

So, that's a negative on actually providing support for you assertion, just more assertions. Again.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Anyway, Halfie, did you ever find actual support for the mythical 'move because we're going to invade no matter what' advisory phone call you made up?
Or have you given up on that lie, like you did the "Jesus said" lie?

 

[Keith&Co.]

As has been said numerous times, no one is proud of invading countries for oil. But if we don't, leftists will be the first ones kicking and screaming wondering, "Why is my gas so expensive?!?!? Why are there shortages?!?!?! Why is our lifestyle getting harder?!?!"

Those darn leftists and their... *checks notes* demand for cheap fossil fuels!

In halfie's case, it's more of a clockface.

The second hand is on the VI, so 'teh left' wants oil companies to make massive profits.

 

[Rhea]

The thread is about Syria, Turks and Kurds. Please do not derail. Derailing is against the TOU. Derail posts oved to Elsewhere in Half-Life’s thread for derailments.

 

[Ford]

Bringing the discussion back to the Kurds...

After the first Gulf War, the US betrayed the Kurds in Iraq. Saddam slaughtered them.

When Gulf War II, Electric Boogaloo happened, they supported us again for some reason. Then when ISIS moved in (thanks to Bush's FUBAR war) the Kurds were like "yeah, we got your back." While the rest of the country was a massive cluster fuck, Iraqi Kurdistan was a region of relative stability. Kurdish territory (such as it is) extends into Syria and Turkey. Everything on that end was going...perhaps not well, but they were fighting on our (and their) behalf. Eleven thousand of them were planted in the ground in that fight.

And because Fragilego Mussolini has a hard-on for authoritarians like Erdogan, he hung them out to dry.

Will they ever trust us again?

I wouldn't.

 

[Patooka]

Hey, remember how less than a fortnight ago, conservatives were saying Trump was pulling the troops out of Northern Syria because it was a good deal where everybody wins? Nope, the troops are staying and they're being reinforced with armour.

So what exactly did Trump's perfect deal making in the Middle East actually accomplish in the last month? Apart from further eroding America's credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world that is.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Aw hell, I was hoping he would actually do the right thing.

According to some here, that means I am somehow a Trump supporter because I hoped he would do the right thing.