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Tara Reade is a person who exists

Well, I wonder if, once Kavanaugh is unseated and convicted of rape and perjury, those who argue his innocence will say that all those who supported him in congress BEFORE he was convicted were equally untrustworthy.

It's almost as Avenetti had a pretty good reputation at the time she hired him...
 
Here's what he said...

Koy, I think you're mistaking my dismissal of one very tenuous link with a dismissal of the entire claim. That's not what it was. The only thing I dismissed is that "very similar language" was some kind of dead giveaway, when that language is a very common phrase.
 
So, tl:dr recap version:

  1. The letters from Kavanaugh's friends are irrelevant at best, complete bullshit at worst, but certainly do not in any serve to exonerate any accusations of sexual assault against him;
  2. There was no actual, or, legitimate FBI investigation into any of the allegations and whatever "background check" was conducted was done in strict compliance with WH directions and NOT according to any kind of criminal investigative protocols into very serious criminal accusations that still remain open questions;
  3. Bart O'Kavanaugh's best friend--Mark Judge--provides not just one, but two detailed memoirs of ALL of the activities--including black out drunk "attempts at sex"--that Kavanaugh tearfully denied he ever participated in or indeed even existed;
  4. When asked by Fox News, no less, whether or not he wanted a full FBI investigation, Kavanaugh immediately deflected any such investigation with a contradictory non-answer that appealed to a "fair process"--when that's precisely what a criminal FBI investigation would have established--opting instead for being thrown into the Briar patch of the Republican controlled Senate;
  5. Kavanaugh is, at the very least, a lying sack of shit who openly committed perjury and participated in the obstruction of justice in regard to his own criminal investigation
 
Koy, I think you're mistaking my dismissal of one very tenuous link with a dismissal of the entire claim. That's not what it was. The only thing I dismissed is that "very similar language" was some kind of dead giveaway, when that language is a very common phrase.

Actually, you said:

Nearly identical phrasing.

Sure... but it's also very common phrasing. It's not unique enough to be any kind of tell-tale, imo.

Which is why I expanded on it and dug deeper to show that the phrase was used repeatedly and in such a manner that suggests it actually was a kind of tell-tale. Imo.

Though the biggest "tell" was the fact that the author of the letters evidently turns out to be Kavanaugh's law clerks.

But, more importantly, of course, is that Kavanaugh's general treatment of women while sober and in situations like, at a sports event or church or "other such activities" was not at issue. I'm sure he was very respectful of women at Church. What was at issue, of course, was whether or not he raped a particular woman at a particular party; the kind of party that Kavanaugh's best friend wrote extensively about in two memoirs.
 

Oh, I forgot that nutcase!
Did you forget that she recanted?
Third Kavanaugh accuser backs away from some of her ‘gang rape’ claims
So basically now her whole claim is that she saw him in the vicinity of the punch bowl. I mean call the FBI!

Her testimony should have been made under oath and duly considered during the vetting process, not swept aside and ignored.

What testimony? What she claimed initially or what she claimed later?
 
Yes, she did, but, regardless, you have zero qualifications to make that call.
I stand by my assessment.

You made no assessment, only baseless ad hominem attacks and incorrect characterizations that were undeniably contradicted by actual law.

By the way, what law school is your JD degree?

Unlike you pretending to be knowledgeable about a subject you clearly were not, I presented an actual lawyer and Professor of Law to affirm what constitutes corroborating evidence.

You really never tire of having your ass publicly handed to you over and over and over again. It's encouraging. Never say die!
 
You made no assessment, only baseless ad hominem attacks and incorrect characterizations that were undeniably contradicted by actual law.
I challenge you or that author to win a conviction based on "evidence" that she told somebody that she was raped by somebody she did not name at the time.

Unlike you pretending to be knowledgeable about a subject you clearly were not, I presented an actual lawyer and Professor of Law to affirm what constitutes corroborating evidence.
Argument from authority. Just because he has a law degree does not mean he is not being dishonest here.

You really never tire of having your ass publicly handed to you over and over and over again. It's encouraging.
BS. Unlike you, I can recognize when some shyster is trying to blow smoke up my ass.
For example, did you even notice the bait-and-switch in the article? He offered an example of solid corroborating evidence - a dent in the car's bodywork - but CBF didn't have anything in the ballpark of that. So he spent the rest of the article pretending that her allegedly telling her friends and husband some vague stuff (she never named Kav to them for example) is similar to actual physical evidence.

Never say die!
WhiteHotFantail-size_restricted.gif
 
For example, did you even notice the bait-and-switch in the article? He offered an example of solid corroborating evidence - a dent in the car's bodywork

Imagine going to the police and reporting a hit and run from 30 years ago.
 
I imagine at least some people will recant a true account when you have assholes and idiots screaming at them all day with death threats and media hit pieces.

Not everyone has the stuff it takes to stand up under that threat of having your life destroyed for standing up for the truth. Assholes who don't listen to women are around every corner waiting to call people liars no matter what the truth is, especially with how when one person drops their claims just to get some of their life back, they all use that to further leverage their claims that all allegations are false.

It's almost like there is a concerted effort to prevent rapists from seeing consequences. It's almost as off the assholes who don't listen to women wish that they themselves could get away with rape and see this kind of behavior as a kind of social contract that may eventually lead to that outcome.

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Did you forget to read your own link? Did you forget what 'some' means?

Derec's link said:
In her declaration, Swetnick was more definitive about Kavanaugh’s alleged conduct at the parties.

“I became aware of efforts by Mark Judge, Brett Kavanaugh and others to ‘spike’ the ‘punch’ at house parties I attended,” she wrote.

Swetnick, however, doubled down on her claims of Kavanaugh’s boorish behavior at the house parties she said they attended together in Montgomery County, Maryland, in the early 1980s.

“He was very aggressive, very sloppy drunk, very mean drunk. I saw him go up to girls and paw on them, try to, you know, get a little too handsy, touching them in private parts. I saw him try to shift clothing,” she recalled.

“I saw him push girls against walls. He would pretend to stumble and stumble into them and knock them into a wall. He’d push his body against theirs, he’d grope them.”

Derec said:
So basically now her whole claim is that she saw him in the vicinity of the punch bowl. I mean call the FBI!

Her testimony should have been made under oath and duly considered during the vetting process, not swept aside and ignored.

What testimony? What she claimed initially or what she claimed later?

So you did forget to read your own link. That or else you didn't care enough about what it said to make even a token effort to understand.
 

Nutso and nutcase. Are you living in 1932? Of course you are.


That article in no way shows her recanting anything. Her official claim was:

Screen Shot 2020-05-05 at 3.21.35 PM.png

"I became aware of efforts" not "I witnessed them spike the punch."

It's a damn good thing you're nowhere near being a lawyer. You'd starve and any clients you ever had would rot in jail.
 
It is possible Derec misremembers, because accuser Judy Munro-Leighton allegedly recanted according to Sen. Charles Grassley.

I don't know whether she did or not, but Mr. Grassley is a partisan POS, so I would not take his word on it.
 

Not really. First of all: New York Post is your source. And secondly, there was not a single word of: I changed my mind: he didn't really spike the punch. The general consensus among those who knew him was that Kavanaugh got black out drunk frequently and was a sloppy, mean drunk. Kavanaugh remembers things differently? If even his friend/drinking buddy says that Kavanaugh got black out drunk, then I don't think Kavanaugh's memory is reliable.

Her ex basically said she is crazy (I've never yet heard of an ex who wasn't crazy) and someone said she they didn't remember her at the parties. Hey, I was recently at a class reunion and one of my fellow classmates swore he couldn't remember me at all, although we went to school together and were in class together almost every year from second grade onward, caught a ride with the same mutual friend and her sister (whom he was dating at the time) for a couple of years. We even danced together at prom once. Throw in: we always disliked each other (the prom dance was a long story) intensely that whole time and we worked on year book together for two years, sometimes closely. Other people I was in class with once in elementary school came up to me and greeted me by name and talked with me so......like I said: we disliked each other and he treated my friend's sister badly. Somebody says they don't remember a person being at a party when that person is involved in anything prominently featured in the national news is not any reliable judge of whether or not the person in question was at the party. Maybe they aren't remembered; maybe somebody wants to stay as far away as possible from any controversy.

Those are pretty questionable 'discredits.'
 
I challenge you

Heavens to Betsy, what shall I do? I've been challenged by Derec.

Argument from authority.

Wrong. An argument from authority is when someone uses the opinion of an authority as proof of an argument, such as someone saying Dr. Fauci believes the Earth is flat, so because Dr. Fauci is in a position of authority, the Earth is therefore flat.

Just because he has a law degree does not mean he is not being dishonest here.

What evidence do you present that he is being dishonest?

You really never tire of having your ass publicly handed to you over and over and over again. It's encouraging.
BS. Unlike you, I can recognize when some shyster is trying to blow smoke up my ass.

And you're back to ad hominem and additional false accusations. You've hit a trifecta.

For example, did you even notice the bait-and-switch in the article?

No and neither did you. Here is what he explained:

Part of the problem, of course, lies in how some people perceive the term “corroborating evidence.” For many who aren’t lawyers, the term means eyewitnesses to the incident in question. With respect to the Kavanaugh matter, when such people say that there isn’t any “corroborating evidence” to support Ford’s accusation, what they really mean is that there isn’t any eyewitness testimony to support her accusation.

The only eyewitness to the purported assault would have been Kavanaugh’s friend, Mark Judge, who Ford said was in the room during the assault. But Judge sent a letter to the Judiciary Committee denying any recollection of the event. Therefore, since he presumably couldn’t support Ford’s accusation and since there were no other eyewitnesses in the room, that caused some people to conclude that Ford had failed to provide any evidence to corroborate her accusation.

What such people fail to realize, however, is that the law provides that there can be corroborative evidence that does not consist of eyewitness testimony.

For example, suppose Mary is driving a car that is negligently struck by a car that is being driven by John. John flees the scene but Mary knows who he is. When Mary accompanies the police to John’s house, he denies having committed the hit and run.

Suppose that John has parked his car in the street and the police walk over to inspect it. They find a huge dent in the front bumper with paint on it that matches the color of Mary’s car. That dent and paint would constitute “corroborative evidence” to support Mary’s accusation, even though it doesn’t consist of eyewitness testimony.

Thus, under the law, eyewitness testimony is “corroborative evidence” but not all “corroborative evidence” is eyewitness testimony.

What is the corroborative evidence that shows that Christine Ford was telling the truth and that Brett Kavanaugh’s denial was false?

The corroborating evidence is what the law calls a “prior consistent statement.” This is a statement that a person makes prior to the incident in question that is consistent with her version of the events. Prior consistent statements become especially pertinent when a witness in a case is accused of fabricating a story. In such a case, the law permits the person to show, as a way to corroborate her testimony, that she told others the same story long before she supposedly fabricated the story.

The evidentiary principle of “prior consistent statement” as corroborative evidence is especially pertinent in the case of Christine Ford. That’s because she had previously told several people of the assault she had suffered and, more significantly, she told these people of the assault long before Kavanaugh was even nominated to the Court and even before Justice Kennedy had announced his retirement from the Court.

He then went on--in great detail and quoting case law that I posted previously--affirming that fact that "prior consistent statements" are in fact a well established component of corroborative evidence.

So he spent the rest of the article pretending that her allegedly telling her friends and husband some vague stuff (she never named Kav to them for example) is similar to actual physical evidence.

:facepalm:

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I imagine at least some people will recant a true account when you have assholes and idiots screaming at them all day with death threats and media hit pieces.

I imagine there are. A lot more recant a false story when they realize they can't pull off the lie. In either case though, they have impeached themselves - "are you lying now, or have you been lying then?" Everything they say is going to be under a cloud of suspicion, and for a very good reason.

Not everyone has the stuff it takes to stand up under that threat of having your life destroyed for standing up for the truth. Assholes who don't listen to women are around every corner waiting to call people liars no matter what the truth is, especially with how when one person drops their claims just to get some of their life back, they all use that to further leverage their claims that all allegations are false.
And no matter what, you will always believe that a woman was raped. :rolleyes:

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Did you forget to read your own link? Did you forget what 'some' means?

She changed the key element of the accusation though. Besides, Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. Her changing key elements of her story makes anything else she says that much less believable.
 
Nutso and nutcase. Are you living in 1932? Of course you are.
1932? Why? Explain in detail.

"I became aware of efforts" not "I witnessed them spike the punch."

So it was hearsay from the beginning? The case is getting weaker and weaker.

It's a damn good thing you're nowhere near being a lawyer. You'd starve and any clients you ever had would rot in jail.
Ditto. Especially since you think hearsay is evidence.
 
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