The death of Tyre Nichols

[TomC]

Hang on. Is your argument that it’s okay for the government to murder people because criminals exist?

No.
But I don't expect Wokesters to understand the difference.

So, there's little point in discussing the nuances. Since they doesn't matter to extremists.

Either I'm on your team or I'm not. If I'm not on your team you don't care what I say. You'll make up stuff, attribute it to me, and post about that.
Like:

Hang on. Is your argument that it’s okay for the government to murder people because criminals exist?

That's just one of many Wokesters arguments made on this thread alone.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Well, it's also possible that when you were in Memphis decades ago you bought a cup of coffee and it somehow cascaded into other things and the eventual death of Tyre Nichols decades later. If I wanted to convince people of this, I'd have to show evidence you bought a coffee, then show evidence you put the empty cup in a particular garbage can, then a bum came along and took it, then show evidence that this bum then used the cup to collect change, then show evidence that the money was used to keep him alive, then show evidence he eventually joined the police force where he hired one of the murderers of Tyre Nichols. Without showing evidence that each thing happened, it's a bit of a ridiculous story.

It's possible.

I don't see your story as particularly plausible, but you manage to put together words.
You remind me of local hard core Christians and Trumpistas.

That's not a complement. But it's true.
Tom

To be fair, putting together words to form a coherent is difficult, as your response prove.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hang on. Is your argument that it’s okay for the government to murder people because criminals exist?

No.
But I don't expect Wokesters to understand the difference.

The differences are quite understood. What isn't understood is why you are derailing a case where officers bludgeoned a person to death (of which you indicate first degree murder charges are appropriate) with comments about young black people killing other young black people. We are aware that this happens. There are a lot of organizations dedicated to dealing with that problem. If one is black and get murdered, most likely another black person will be the killer.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It is about another problem. A problem involving police, blacks and the animosity that exists between them.

 

[Toni]

Come back when you have evidence instead of insults.

Come back when you've got evidence, better than "I can't access the internet when it doesn't suit me."

Lemme ask you this. Who killed more YBM? Cops or other YBM?
By what margin?
Tom

Tom, as has been pointed out elsewhere, most crimes against people are committed by persons known to the victim. US society is largely segregated by.race. Yes, most black people are killed by black people and most white people are killed by white people, etc.

More white people are killed by police than black people but black people are killed by police in numbers disproportionate to the portion of the population which is black.

From preschool onwards, black children are disciplined more often and more harshly than their white classmates. Black people are seen as not feeling pain as much as white people. Black children are assumed to be years older than they are by white people.

There have been many stories in recent years of white people calling the police on black children fir doing such things as selling lemonade at a lemonade stand. Here’s a link to a story about someone who called the police to report a tiny black lady spraying stuff on the sidewalk. It was a 9 year old girl who was spraying lantern flies, a destructive invasive species. The new Gabor was ‘afraid’

Former NJ councilman Gordon Lawshe calls cops on young black girl who was killing lanternflies

A New Jersey man has come under fire after calling the police on his neighbor, a 9-year-old black girl, who was walking around the neighborhood killing spotted lanternflies.

nypost.com

A neighbor's call to police on a little Black girl while she sprayed lanternflies exposes a deeper problem, mom says

A little girl's fascination with spotted lanternflies has forced a North New Jersey community to grapple with perceptions of racism and what happens when police are called on Black children.

amp.cnn.com

Gifted article:https://wapo.st/3lxvvVK

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Well, it's also possible that when you were in Memphis decades ago you bought a cup of coffee and it somehow cascaded into other things and the eventual death of Tyre Nichols decades later. If I wanted to convince people of this, I'd have to show evidence you bought a coffee, then show evidence you put the empty cup in a particular garbage can, then a bum came along and took it, then show evidence that this bum then used the cup to collect change, then show evidence that the money was used to keep him alive, then show evidence he eventually joined the police force where he hired one of the murderers of Tyre Nichols. Without showing evidence that each thing happened, it's a bit of a ridiculous story.

It's possible.

I don't see your story as particularly plausible, but you manage to put together words.
You remind me of local hard core Christians and Trumpistas.

That's not a complement. But it's true.
Tom

So instead of evidence it's "nanny nanny booboo. You're a poopoohead." You should realize everyone in the thread is not convinced by that.

 

[Rhea]

Hang on. Is your argument that it’s okay for the government to murder people because criminals exist?

No.
But I don't expect Wokesters to understand the difference.

So, there's little point in discussing the nuances. Since they doesn't matter to extremists.

So Tom, the point of my comment was to ask you to explain this statement:

Lemme ask you this. Who killed more YBM? Cops or other YBM?
By what margin?
Tom

We’re talking about a young man who was beaten to death, And the conversation goes to how can the police get to a point where they’re doing this!?

And you ask:

Lemme ask you this. Who killed more YBM? Cops or other YBM?
By what margin?
Tom

So I’ll ask you again, why DID you make that post?
What point were you trying to make if it wasn’t that we should talk about something besides cops killing civilians?

It’s easy to call me a “wokester” and an “extremist,” but wouldn’t you rather answer the question?

 

[laughing dog]

[It’s easy to call me a “wokester” and an “extremist,” but wouldn’t you rather answer the question?

If you look in this thread, you'll see that TomC avoids answering questions. It is easier to avoid explanation with calling someone a wokester or that fling out " wokesters won't understand.

When that happens, I am comforted by a lyric from a song by Traffic that goes
"Don't worry too much It'll happen to you
As sure as your sorrows are joys
And the thing that disturbs you is only the sound of
The low spark of high-heeled boys"

 

[Rhea]

I love that song.

 

[TomC]

If you look in this thread, you'll see that TomC avoids answering questions.

You mean questions like

Hang on. Is your argument that it’s okay for the government to murder people because criminals exist?

?

I don't see much to discuss concerning the Nichols case. There's not much information and all of it looks pretty darned damning for the cops.

The underlying issues have a lot more discussion potential. One issue brought up was the lousy quality of the Memphis PD. They've had to drop their standards and are still shorthanded. Why is that?

One response to my suggestion that street demonstrations chanting "Death to cops" was comparing that to me buying a cup of coffee 35 years ago.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

[You mean questions like

Hang on. Is your argument that it’s okay for the government to murder people because criminals exist?

And questions like
"Do you see how the seemingly endless examples of police indifference to police brutality might make an impact on PD’s ability to attract and retrain better quality staff?"

The underlying issues have a lot more discussion potential. One issue brought up was the lousy quality of the Memphis PD. They've had to drop their standards and are still shorthanded. Why is that?

Don't know. I'd guess a tight labor market in general has something to do with it. I'd think the persistent examples of police brutality and misbehavior have something to do with it.

One response to my suggestion that street demonstrations chanting "Death to cops" was comparing that to me buying a cup of coffee 35 years ago.

So? How many "wokesters won't understand" have you flung out?

 

[TomC]

"So? How many "wokesters won't understand" have you flung out?".

Not nearly as many as I've either bitten my tongue or deleted before posting.
Tom

 

[Toni]

If you look in this thread, you'll see that TomC avoids answering questions.

You mean questions like

Hang on. Is your argument that it’s okay for the government to murder people because criminals exist?

?

I don't see much to discuss concerning the Nichols case. There's not much information and all of it looks pretty darned damning for the cops.

The underlying issues have a lot more discussion potential. One issue brought up was the lousy quality of the Memphis PD. They've had to drop their standards and are still shorthanded. Why is that?

One response to my suggestion that street demonstrations chanting "Death to cops" was comparing that to me buying a cup of coffee 35 years ago.
Tom

What evidence is there that they've 'had to drop their standards?'

 

[laughing dog]

"So? How many "wokesters won't understand" have you flung out?".

Not nearly as many as I've either bitten my tongue or deleted before posting.
Tom

Well, that is an actual relevant response to a question even though it does not actually answer the question.

I do apologize that my post had quote tag problems that have now been cleared up. So I can understand why you missed
"Do you see how the seemingly endless examples of police indifference to police brutality might make an impact on PD’s ability to attract and retrain better quality staff?"

 

[TomC]

What evidence is there that they've 'had to drop their standards?'

Somebody upthread made the claim.
The claim is extremely plausible and fact checkable. I didn't occur to me to investigate.

It also helps explain why a group of cops would turn off their body cams, beat a guy nearly to death, then hold off the EMTs until Nichols was dead.
Tom

 

[TomC]

I do apologize that my post had quote tag problems that have now been cleared up. So I can understand why you missed
"Do you see how the seemingly endless examples of police indifference to police brutality might make an impact on PD’s ability to attract and retrain better quality staff?"

I did eventually notice. But by then I was kinda losing interest in rhetorical snarkiness.

To answer, I don't doubt that it does have some impact. But I doubt it's as large an impact as the current climate of hostility towards all cops.
What I see is a job becoming increasingly worse. The drugs and guns and untreated mental illness issues aren't getting any better. Add to that the threat of being convicted on the internet by an incomplete bit of video going viral. I completely understand why the sort of folks we want on the police force choose something else.

If I understand correctly, the private security business is doing very well overall. There are lots of options for the kind of person who would make a good cop. I find it no surprise that lots of them choose them. Which leaves PDs scrambling and dropping their standards.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Don't know. I'd guess a tight labor market in general has something to do with it. I'd think the persistent examples of police brutality and misbehavior have something to do with it.

I'm guessing it does.
Go Biden!

I don't know anything about Memphis in particular. But the labor issues are more nation wide. Maybe a street demonstration of people chanting "Death to cops" caused an uptick in better cops leaving Memphis to get a job elsewhere. That would be great for other places, but not for Memphis.

Also, I don't remember for sure that the video I saw was from Memphis. I think it was, but I'm not at all sure. Would it matter if it were in Mobile or Tallahassee?
Or Rochester MN?

I don't think so.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Don't know. I'd guess a tight labor market in general has something to do with it. I'd think the persistent examples of police brutality and misbehavior have something to do with it.

I'm guessing it does.
Go Biden!

I don't know anything about Memphis in particular. But the labor issues are more nation wide. Maybe a street demonstration of people chanting "Death to cops" caused an uptick in better cops leaving Memphis to get a job elsewhere. That would be great for other places, but not for Memphis.

Also, I don't remember for sure that the video I saw was from Memphis. I think it was, but I'm not at all sure. Would it matter if it were in Mobile or Tallahassee?
Or Rochester MN?

Well, when claiming people in Memphis chanting "death to cops" would make good cops want to flee Memphis, yes... it would matter if those chants weren't actually in Memphis.

 

[TomC]

Well, when claiming people in Memphis chanting "death to cops" would make good cops want to flee Memphis, yes... it would matter if those chants weren't actually in Memphis.

Why would it matter much?
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I do apologize that my post had quote tag problems that have now been cleared up. So I can understand why you missed
"Do you see how the seemingly endless examples of police indifference to police brutality might make an impact on PD’s ability to attract and retrain better quality staff?"

I did eventually notice. But by then I was kinda losing interest in rhetorical snarkiness.

To answer, I don't doubt that it does have some impact. But I doubt it's as large an impact as the current climate of hostility towards all cops.
What I see is a job becoming increasingly worse. The drugs and guns and untreated mental illness issues aren't getting any better. Add to that the threat of being convicted on the internet by an incomplete bit of video going viral. I completely understand why the sort of folks we want on the police force choose something else.

The poor police. Why won't anyone think of the police? Officers seemingly murdered a civilian, and you are waxing philosophically about how bad it is to be a policeman these days, when in fact, the number of deaths of officers in the field hasn't changed much... excluding the boost in deaths to officers because of Covid. In fact, Covid-19 killed 4 times (in 2020) as many cops as did bullets.

The trouble some officers are having today stems from video of their brutal violations of the rights of civilians being found and them maybe being held accountable, in cases where they otherwise would have gotten away with.

No, being a cop isn't easy. There is a growing animosity between the public and officers, which is terribly unhealthy for all parties involved. And having civilians actively filming one while working is certainly going to be annoying (I personally wouldn't like people video'ing me while I worked). There is just so much anger and distrust from civilians and too much indifference to disgust for people they deem as nearly expendable from some on the Police.

 

[laughing dog]

Don't know. I'd guess a tight labor market in general has something to do with it. I'd think the persistent examples of police brutality and misbehavior have something to do with it.

I'm guessing it does.
Go Biden!

I don't know anything about Memphis in particular. But the labor issues are more nation wide. Maybe a street demonstration of people chanting "Death to cops" caused an uptick in better cops leaving Memphis to get a job elsewhere. That would be great for other places, but not for Memphis.

The Memphis labor market is as tight as the nation’s.

As to the rest of your suppositions, they are reasonable but there is no reason to think they would be more influential than all the others.