The death of Tyre Nichols

[TomC]

The poor police. Why won't anyone think of the police?

Wanna know why I don't bother responding to so many of the questions I get asked on IIDB?
It's that so many are snarky bullshit like this.
Tom

 

[Toni]

I do apologize that my post had quote tag problems that have now been cleared up. So I can understand why you missed
"Do you see how the seemingly endless examples of police indifference to police brutality might make an impact on PD’s ability to attract and retrain better quality staff?"

I did eventually notice. But by then I was kinda losing interest in rhetorical snarkiness.

To answer, I don't doubt that it does have some impact. But I doubt it's as large an impact as the current climate of hostility towards all cops.
What I see is a job becoming increasingly worse. The drugs and guns and untreated mental illness issues aren't getting any better. Add to that the threat of being convicted on the internet by an incomplete bit of video going viral. I completely understand why the sort of folks we want on the police force choose something else.

If I understand correctly, the private security business is doing very well overall. There are lots of options for the kind of person who would make a good cop. I find it no surprise that lots of them choose them. Which leaves PDs scrambling and dropping their standards.
Tom

I think it was a different thread when I described stepping out of my vehicle one dark and snowy night, in order to ask a police officer when he thought the accident ahead would be cleared so traffic could progress. This was some years ago: I was probably in my 50's, I'm short, overweight, was wearing my work casual pants under my old jacket. I typically am seen as the person next door and maybe someone I grew up with a long time ago or maybe it was their cousin? I'm soft spoken and mild mannered. About as non-threatening as they come. I had been waving from my vehicle to get the officer's attention but he was chatting up some guy in a vehicle ahead of me, no doubt talking about hunting or fishing or maybe both. Both hands were visible and were visibly holding nothing at all. It was pretty light with the headlights from all the vehicles bouncing light off of the snow. I accosted the police officer with a polite Excuse me, sir. The officer started to draw his weapon on me.

Police and law enforcement have earned their bad reputation. I was raised to believe that police officers were there to help. I raised my kids that way. I still do my best to believe that. Generally we live in an area (but not a state) where that is a safe assumption to make, so long as you are white and don't speak with an accent.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I do apologize that my post had quote tag problems that have now been cleared up. So I can understand why you missed
"Do you see how the seemingly endless examples of police indifference to police brutality might make an impact on PD’s ability to attract and retrain better quality staff?"

I did eventually notice. But by then I was kinda losing interest in rhetorical snarkiness.

To answer, I don't doubt that it does have some impact. But I doubt it's as large an impact as the current climate of hostility towards all cops.
What I see is a job becoming increasingly worse. The drugs and guns and untreated mental illness issues aren't getting any better. Add to that the threat of being convicted on the internet by an incomplete bit of video going viral. I completely understand why the sort of folks we want on the police force choose something else.

If I understand correctly, the private security business is doing very well overall. There are lots of options for the kind of person who would make a good cop. I find it no surprise that lots of them choose them. Which leaves PDs scrambling and dropping their standards.
Tom

I think it was a different thread when I described stepping out of my vehicle one dark and snowy night, in order to ask a police officer when he thought the accident ahead would be cleared so traffic could progress. This was some years ago: I was probably in my 50's, I'm short, overweight, was wearing my work casual pants under my old jacket. I typically am seen as the person next door and maybe someone I grew up with a long time ago or maybe it was their cousin? I'm soft spoken and mild mannered. About as non-threatening as they come. I had been waving from my vehicle to get the officer's attention but he was chatting up some guy in a vehicle ahead of me, no doubt talking about hunting or fishing or maybe both. Both hands were visible and were visibly holding nothing at all. It was pretty light with the headlights from all the vehicles bouncing light off of the snow. I accosted the police officer with a polite Excuse me, sir. The officer started to draw his weapon on me.

Police and law enforcement have earned their bad reputation. I was raised to believe that police officers were there to help. I raised my kids that way. I still do my best to believe that. Generally we live in an area (but not a state) where that is a safe assumption to make, so long as you are white and don't speak with an accent.

When the police were doing a manhunt search in my neighborhood, I had seen something and knew it was likely relevant. So I left the house to talk to the officer across the street. Hands out, looking the officer in the eye, wondering if I'm staring too much, moving slowly, but not too slowly. Of course, I'm white, so that likely was a reason he didn't grab for a weapon. But it was on my mind.

 

[TomC]

Memphis labor market is as tight as the nation’s.

Indianapolis has never had a crowd in the streets chanting "Death to cops".
And our labor market is tight, like most places.

Where would a good cop choose to go and dedicate themselves to "Protect and serve"? Competently and politely?

Indianapolis, or any place where cops are under assault on social media and from grandstanding politicians.

Just take a guess.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Memphis labor market is as tight as the nation’s.

Indianapolis has never had a crowd in the streets chanting "Death to cops".
And our labor market is tight, like most places.

Where would a good cop choose to go and dedicate themselves to "Protect and serve"? Competently and politely?

Indianapolis, or any place where cops are under assault on social media and from grandstanding politicians.

Just take a guess.
Tom

I seriously doubt very many people who want to become police officers will leave their state to travel hundreds of miles to serve in a community they have no other ties to.

 

[TomC]

I seriously doubt very many people who want to become police officers will leave their state to travel hundreds of miles to serve in a community they have no other ties to.

Why are you dismissing the ordinary human motivations of cops so casually?

"My job here sucks. I've got to work with a bunch of low life's. My sister in Lafayette says that the PD there has an opening. That sounds great.

Honey, think moving to Indiana would be a bad thing?"
Tom

 

[Playball40]

Why do you people hate each other so much?

Racism and class violence.

I'd say just racism and violence.

It's amped up by the media, everything from news media to social media to music/film/games. Because everyone who wants to make money in media or off of media knows that 2 things are guaranteed to sell: sex and violence.

Add in race and add in drugs and well, you've just amped things up really high.
Look at who is getting elected to national offices these days.

Add in guns as well.

 

[Rhea]

Also, I don't remember for sure that the video I saw was from Memphis. I think it was, but I'm not at all sure. Would it matter if it were in Mobile or Tallahassee?
Or Rochester MN?

You have already been shown that the video was from NYC and it was more than 8 years ago.


So, again, why would one 8-year old video from another city be more likely to drive cops away from Memphis than, say, the behavior of Memphis cops?

 

[laughing dog]

Memphis labor market is as tight as the nation’s.

Indianapolis has never had a crowd in the streets chanting "Death to cops".
And our labor market is tight, like most places.

Where would a good cop choose to go and dedicate themselves to "Protect and serve"? Competently and politely?

Indianapolis, or any place where cops are under assault on social media and from grandstanding politicians.

Just take a guess.
Tom

Dismissing the facts of the labor market is not a convincing argument.

My guess is you will continue to dismiss any influence on police recruitment that conflicts with your ideological biases.

 

[TomC]

So, again, why would one 8-year old video from another city be more likely to drive cops away from Memphis tha

I never claimed I knew were it came from. I don't even know, now, that it's the same street demonstration.

Any evidence that it only happened once?

My point is that the job of the police is becoming worse. I find it unsurprising that the good ones are leaving, or not joining. So I don't find it surprising that the overall quality of cops is going down.

That's not a good thing. But continuing the current socio-political trends looks a lot like "The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

I don't think that's gonna happen.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The poor police. Why won't anyone think of the police?

Wanna know why I don't bother responding to so many of the questions I get asked on IIDB?

I kind of know, so there isn't much wondering.

It's that so many are snarky bullshit like this.

You know, maybe you can add snark for the reason why Memphis doesn't have good cops and why that man was murdered by the officers.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Memphis labor market is as tight as the nation’s.

Indianapolis has never had a crowd in the streets chanting "Death to cops".

How in the heck can you even know that?

 

[TomC]

Dismissing the facts of the labor market is not a convincing argument.

I didn't dismiss that. I responded to it. Feel free to look up the post for yourself.

My guess is you will continue to dismiss any influence on police recruitment that conflicts with your ideological biases.

Where did I do that? I'm trying to discuss this is in a nuanced way.
Your responses tend to be snarky caricatures. Like the ones I just quoted.
Tom

 

[Toni]

I seriously doubt very many people who want to become police officers will leave their state to travel hundreds of miles to serve in a community they have no other ties to.

Why are you dismissing the ordinary human motivations of cops so casually?

"My job here sucks. I've got to work with a bunch of low life's. My sister in Lafayette says that the PD there has an opening. That sounds great.

Honey, think moving to Indiana would be a bad thing?"
Tom

I’m doing the opposite of dismissing the concerns of ordinary police officers and prospective police officers.

Moving is expensive within state. It’s really expensive moving across a few state lines. I’ve done that a few times.

I don’t know specifically about Lafayette, but a lot of PD hire from a pool of candidates with established ties to the community they would be serving. Some even have residency requirements.

It is more likely for someone to seek out a job on a different state if they have ties to that other state.

Are police getting a lot of bad press these days? Yes. Does it discourage some people from pursuing law enforcement as a career? No doubt and probably attracts a certain kind of person, some of which might be poor candidates.

Trust me: I want to be able to trust police! I want every community to be safe. I want every person to be treated fairly and to have no reason to fear the police.

That will take a lot of reform and a lot more and better training and education.

 

[TomC]

Memphis labor market is as tight as the nation’s.

Indianapolis has never had a crowd in the streets chanting "Death to cops".

How in the heck can you even know that?

Seriously?

That's an important question to you?
How can I know what happened in my home town? The city that dominates the region I have lived in for nearly my whole life?

How the heck could I know even know that?

Really? That's your question?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Dismissing the facts of the labor market is not a convincing argument.

I didn't dismiss that. I responded to it. Feel free to look up the post for yourself.

I did. Apparently you don’t read your responses. Responding with repetition of your position is not an acknowledgement of other influences.

Where did I do that? I'm trying to discuss this is in a nuanced way.

In your singular insistence in the anti police rationale to the exclusion of other influences.

Your responses tend to be snarky caricatures. Like the ones I just quoted.

There was no snark in that. But the irony in your response is duly noted.

 

[TomC]

In your singular insistence in the anti police rationale.

To which "singular insistence" are you referring?

I don't think you can explain or demonstrate one.
Not one.

My take on all this is that there are multiple social issues resulting in the problem. I keep saying that.

But whenever I say something that doesn't match the politically correct social view I get a bunch of snarky rhetoric and dodging.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

To which "singular insistence" are you referring?

I don't think you can explain or demonstrate one.
Not one. [/quote] What don't you understand about the term "anti police"? It encompasses responses such as
"
Indianapolis, or any place where cops are under assault on social media and from grandstanding politicians."
(bold-face, italics and underline added to make it clear).

My take on all this is that there are multiple social issues resulting in the problem. I keep saying that.

We are specifically taking about police recruitment not "the problem"

But whenever I say something that doesn't match the politically correct social view I get a bunch of snarky rhetoric and dodging.
Tom

That particular comment is revealing, snarky and dodging.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Memphis labor market is as tight as the nation’s.

Indianapolis has never had a crowd in the streets chanting "Death to cops".

How in the heck can you even know that?

Seriously?

That's an important question to you?
How can I know what happened in my home town? The city that dominates the region I have lived in for nearly my whole life?

How the heck could I know even know that?

Really? That's your question?
Tom

Yes, that was my question. I live in a city, I don't proclaim to be the holder of knowledge of all things that happen in that city. I figured most people felt that way,

 

[TomC]

We are specifically taking about police recruitment not "the problem"

To which problem are you referring?

I'm trying to talk about the big picture problems.

One is poor quality police. But that's not happening in a vacuum.
Tom