The death of Tyre Nichols

[AthenaAwakened]

But that's not what angers the public.

Who is this "the public" you're referring to?

It sounds like you're referring to "the barrel". People who want the police to stop the crime messing up their lives.

As if we're the problem.
Tom

But that's not what angers the public.

Who is this "the public" you're referring to?

It sounds like you're referring to "the barrel". People who want the police to stop the crime messing up their lives.

As if we're the problem.
Tom

That's what's bothering you? Out of all I wrote, "the public" is what stuck out?


Ok, I'll bite.

The public are those citizens who think innocent people should not be beaten to death by the police.

 

[Gospel]

You define "the barrel" as Us society. I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone else made that statement. Don't you think that's a little odd?

I am defining the barrel as U.S. society.

The odd part, to me, is the inability of people on this forum to recognize that simple truth. The "barrel" is not just cops, or wipepo, or billionaires, or males, or immigrants or Christians.

It's us.
We are the problem.
Tom

Hey, thanks for finally coming on board. Regrettably this ship is sinking. We are now in the process of rescuing cops, wipepo, billionaires, males, immigrants & Christians that are still on board. You mind offering a hand Or are you gonna keep wailing we're the problem?

 

[bilby]

What the police do is mete out sanction for bad actions already taken.

...and what they're supposed to do is apprehend suspects, and investigate crimes. Meting out sanctions is the job of the courts, and is absolutely and definitively NOT something a good police officer should ever do.

That most people have forgotten this fundamental principle of law, is an indication of just how much unjustified and (literally) unwarranted power police forces have taken for themselves.

 

[TomC]

That's what's bothering you?

Nope.
It was just the one thing I bothered responding.

I don't spend as much time responding to IIDB nonsense as you might think.

I know I should pay less attention than I do.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Tom

 

[Toni]

I just saw this: Apparently one of the officers involved took photos of a badly beaten Tyre Nichols and sent them to at least five individuals.

Memphis Officer Texted Photo of Tyre Nichols After Beating, New Documents Show (Published 2023)

The revelation came in Memphis police documents related to the firing of five officers who have been charged with murder in Mr. Nichols’s death.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Oleg]

I just saw this: Apparently one of the officers involved took photos of a badly beaten Tyre Nichols and sent them to at least five individuals.

Memphis Officer Texted Photo of Tyre Nichols After Beating, New Documents Show (Published 2023)

The revelation came in Memphis police documents related to the firing of five officers who have been charged with murder in Mr. Nichols’s death.

www.nytimes.com

There’s rampant speculation that the cops were acquainted with the guy. Which might explain the over the top violence.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

... this is the bias thing again, where a victim of police (or police adjacent) violence is presumed to be guilty.

That seems pretty believable to me. Criminals often come up with excuses and are dishonest about health issues once arrested/in custody. So, when police are dealing with anyone and seem to project they dealt with such a person, people will tend to believe it on their authority. Race could also play a factor in multiple levels of trust/assumptions/factors contributing into inferences. I think EMTs ought to be more duty-driven and objective.

There's also the issue that one of the basic rules of helping is to not put yourself in a position to become a victim yourself. EMTs will not deal with a scene the police have said is unsafe.

Do you have even a scintilla of evidence that suggests this was a factor in their seemingly lackadaisical response?

If the police tell them to stay out they'll stay out.

 

[Arctish]

I just saw this: Apparently one of the officers involved took photos of a badly beaten Tyre Nichols and sent them to at least five individuals.

Memphis Officer Texted Photo of Tyre Nichols After Beating, New Documents Show (Published 2023)

The revelation came in Memphis police documents related to the firing of five officers who have been charged with murder in Mr. Nichols’s death.

www.nytimes.com

There’s rampant speculation that the cops were acquainted with the guy. Which might explain the over the top violence.

Speculation, yes.

Evidence to support it, no.

Nichols doesn't have a criminal record. No one's found evidence of any interaction between Nichols and the Memphis police at all, not even a traffic ticket. Heck, they can't even find evidence of the alleged moving violation the cops claim was the reason they pulled him over that night. Nichols' record is clean.

 

[thebeave]

I just saw this: Apparently one of the officers involved took photos of a badly beaten Tyre Nichols and sent them to at least five individuals.

Memphis Officer Texted Photo of Tyre Nichols After Beating, New Documents Show (Published 2023)

The revelation came in Memphis police documents related to the firing of five officers who have been charged with murder in Mr. Nichols’s death.

www.nytimes.com

There’s rampant speculation that the cops were acquainted with the guy. Which might explain the over the top violence.

Speculation, yes.

Evidence to support it, no.

Nichols doesn't have a criminal record. No one's found evidence of any interaction between Nichols and the Memphis police at all, not even a traffic ticket. Heck, they can't even find evidence of the alleged moving violation the cops claim was the reason they pulled him over that night. Nichols' record is clean.

I don't think its a criminal background Oleg's talking about. One thing I heard, but was refuted by Tyre's father is that he was having an affair with one of the officer's wife/girlfriend, and that's what led to the beatdown. Who the hell knows. Hopefully an investigation will uncover what this was all about.

 

[Marvin Edwards]

Noor had 3 complaints against him as a cop. Chauvin had 18.

If it is a good idea to flag someone early in order to prevent them from owning a gun, it would seem reasonable to flag a police officer earlier, to prevent him from carrying the authority to kill. In either case, the judgment required to operate the weapon is missing.

We need to reassess the judgment we are using to train the police. They should first pass some practical test of that judgment before allowed to act with our authority.

 

[Toni]

I just saw this: Apparently one of the officers involved took photos of a badly beaten Tyre Nichols and sent them to at least five individuals.

Memphis Officer Texted Photo of Tyre Nichols After Beating, New Documents Show (Published 2023)

The revelation came in Memphis police documents related to the firing of five officers who have been charged with murder in Mr. Nichols’s death.

www.nytimes.com

There’s rampant speculation that the cops were acquainted with the guy. Which might explain the over the top violence.

Speculation, yes.

Evidence to support it, no.

Nichols doesn't have a criminal record. No one's found evidence of any interaction between Nichols and the Memphis police at all, not even a traffic ticket. Heck, they can't even find evidence of the alleged moving violation the cops claim was the reason they pulled him over that night. Nichols' record is clean.

I don't think its a criminal background Oleg's talking about. One thing I heard, but was refuted by Tyre's father is that he was having an affair with one of the officer's wife/girlfriend, and that's what led to the beatdown. Who the hell knows. Hopefully an investigation will uncover what this was all about.

Yeah, when I read the rumor of prior relationship of some kind, I assumed it involved a woman. But we certainly do not know anything now and NOTHING justifies what happened.

 

[laughing dog]

If the police tell them to stay out they'll stay out.

Do have any evidence that the police in this case told the EMTS to stay out? I ask, because the employers of the EMT have already fired them, which suggests that your conjecture is just that.

 

[Rhea]

If the police tell them to stay out they'll stay out.

Do have any evidence that the police in this case told the EMTS to stay out? I ask, because the employers of the EMT have already fired them, which suggests that your conjecture is just that.

I think you misspelled apologetics

 

[southernhybrid]

I just read a very long disturbing article about the Memphis police department, which I'm gifting for anyone who would like to read the entire thing. It should be available for at least 2 weeks.

https://wapo.st/3HT2cV8

The eight men wearing black, hooded sweatshirts and ski masks seemed to appear out of nowhere as Monterrious Harris sat in his car outside his cousin’s apartment on Jan. 4.
They shouted profanities and ordered him out of the car, he later recalled.

“I will shoot you!” one of the men said, according to Harris. “I will shoot you!”

Harris said he quickly threw the black Chrysler 300 into reverse. Then he saw tactical vests worn by the men and realized they might be law enforcement. He got out and raised his hands. The officers swarmed him with punches, he said.
Among the Memphis police officers who surrounded Harris were the same five men charged with fatally beating motorist Tyre Nichols at a traffic stop just three days later, according to police records obtained by The Washington Post.
Lawyers for Harris this week filed a multimillion-dollar lawsuit in federal court in Tennessee against the city of Memphis and the officers, alleging the city and officers had violated Harris’s civil rights and sanctioned an unconstitutional system of policing. A police spokeswoman said the department does not comment on pending litigation.
Harris is among a number of Memphis residents who have come forward since Nichols’s killing to describe violent tactics allegedly used by the Memphis Police Department, which is now confronting deepening questions about the supervision and training of its officers.

Apparently the Memphis police often targeted people for no apparent reason and sometimes planted evidence on them and lied about what happened in their reports. The article describes the shortage of police in Memphis and how they had to decrease the qualifications to become a member of the police department, including sometimes hiring people who had a criminal record. I don't know what can be done to change the problem that many cities have with their police. I know that it's very important to have police to go after violent criminals, but it appears as if some police don't seem to know the difference between a criminal and an innocent citizen. The article also mentioned the amount of overtime that some police have been working etc. I don't think that all cities have this problem with their police, but it does seem as if many Black majority cities have police who are targeting innocent people, as well as beating up people and using other illegal tactics when approaching or arresting citizens.

In an effort to bring in more recruits, department officials changed the requirements and standards for joining the force, like easing the physical fitness requirements and softening restrictions on hiring applicants with criminal convictions. The short staffing and long hours took a toll in an environment in which there were not enough seasoned managers in the department, according to one former officer who recently left.
“If you’re constantly overworked, constantly around bad guys — rapists, robbers and guys that want to do people harm — and you don’t have that buffer in senior leadership saying, ‘Don’t take this stuff personally,’ it really will envelop you,” said the former officer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the internal dynamics. “Honestly, this was inevitable, whether it was these guys or somebody else.”

As the city processes one of the most violent cases of police brutality ever recorded, Memphis leaders are asking themselves the same question being debated in many communities nationwide about policing: Were these five officers evidence of institutional rot, or were they rogue actors now casting a dark shadow over a healthy police department?

It's a long article. I encourage you all to read it. I have no idea what the answer is to this disturbing problem, but it seems as if the police are often criminals themselves. I've never heard of such abuse in my small city and I do have sympathy for the Black police detective who lives a few doors away from me. as I don't believe he is a part of the problem, yet just being a police officer these days often makes people feel unsafe around you, regardless if you are one who takes your title to serve and protect seriously.

 

[Rhea]

Memphis leaders are asking themselves the same question being debated in many communities nationwide about policing: Were these five officers evidence of institutional rot, or were they rogue actors now casting a dark shadow over a healthy police department?

The answer is much easier than they think:

• If this has been going on for years - it’s institutional.
• If this involves multiple officers - it’s institutional.
• If body cams are routinely off when they should be on - it’s institutional.
• If body cams are not regularly audited for whether they are on when they should be on - it’s institutional.
• If no other officers noticed a group of rogue actors - it’s institutional.
• If other offiers noticed, but did not report a group of rogue actors - it’s institutional.
• If they do not have regular training on how to avoid this - it’s institutional.
• If they do not have an anonymous, outside of the department tip line - it’s institutional.

I continue to believe:

• A good cop is a cop who blows the whistle on a bad cop.
• A good cop leader is a cop leader who creates a system to report bad cops
• A good cop leader is a cop leader who acts on reports of bad cops.
• If these are hard to find - it’s institutional.

 

[Rhea]

Honestly. Do they REALLY not know who the sketchy cops are?

 

[Rhea]

Many point to the department’s staffing shortage, owing to a national police recruiting lull, despite the department’s efforts to widen the applicant pool.

If potential new recruits feel certain that any effort they have to act morally will be targeted by existing cops; they will not apply.
If any potential new recruit feels that they will be harmed by blowing the whistle on a bad cop; they will not apply.

They must make the atmosphere safe for moral and upstanding recruits if they want those recruits.



I feel the college degree issue is a red herring. You do not need a college degree to be moral.

 

[TomC]

Honestly. Do they REALLY not know who the sketchy cops are?

Who is "they"?
According to the story, Memphis police are dropping their standards just to keep anyone.

I think it was Memphis, although I could definitely be wrong about the city. A few years back I watched a video of a BLM march in a city.
The crowd was chanting:
"What do we want?

Dead cops!

When do we want them?

Now! "

Then a couple of weeks later the crowd got their wish. BLM snipers in Dallas shot 6 cops, 5 fatally. While protecting a BLM march.

Look around at the current culture. If you were a decent person, qualified for police work, would you join the police force? Or stay in it? Of course not.

Frankly, I think BLM and similar are going to cause more deaths and destruction, especially among YBM. Because the cops aren't the big problem.
Tom

 

[southernhybrid]

Many point to the department’s staffing shortage, owing to a national police recruiting lull, despite the department’s efforts to widen the applicant pool.

If potential new recruits feel certain that any effort they have to act morally will be targeted by existing cops; they will not apply.
If any potential new recruit feels that they will be harmed by blowing the whistle on a bad cop; they will not apply.

They must make the atmosphere safe for moral and upstanding recruits if they want those recruits.

I agree with you, but how do they do they do that? They've already lowered the standards due to not having enough applicants. The pay seems to be adequate and they have opportunities to make more doing over time. Hopefully, they aren't being forced to work too much over time, as that could be a potential problem too.

My police neighbor told my husband that he likes working over time because it gives him the chance to make a lot more money. He has a wife and two young children, so I can understand that. I just hope he can keep doing a good job and not get burned out and end up being a "bad cop". My city claims we don't have enough police but it's hard for me to believe that because every time there's as much as a minor car accident, there are always several police cars on the scene. Is that necessary? It never used to be that way. Are the police more frightened of citizens these days? Is it because there are more gun owners than every before? I'm just trying to figure it all out.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Many point to the department’s staffing shortage, owing to a national police recruiting lull, despite the department’s efforts to widen the applicant pool.

If potential new recruits feel certain that any effort they have to act morally will be targeted by existing cops; they will not apply.
If any potential new recruit feels that they will be harmed by blowing the whistle on a bad cop; they will not apply.

They must make the atmosphere safe for moral and upstanding recruits if they want those recruits.



I feel the college degree issue is a red herring. You do not need a college degree to be moral.

Research has shown that college educated officers generate fewer citizen complaints. They are terminated less frequently for misconduct and less likely to use force. They also tend to be more problem-oriented and better able to respond to social problems. Community policing requires problem solving and creative thinking - skills that college experience helps. Officers with college are generally better able to identify best practices. It also helps build better leaders.

If we want better officers, we need to pay them more, weed out the bad ones better, and train train train.

Reasons Police Officers Should Have College Degrees - Woodbury University

Students interested in pursuing a career in policing should be encouraged to pursue a college degree in Public Safety based on recent research that has shown the tremendous positive impact of higher education in this field. One of the more obvious benefits of police officers receiving a college...

woodbury.edu