The Democratic Party has attractive positions for moderate republicians/center right voters

[southernhybrid]

It doesn't feel like a cult to me. I think I know exactly what Trump and MAGA represent because they are so obvious. Anyone with an IQ above 20 can probably understand most if not all the ego flaws of Trump, but he does not scare me at all. What I fear much worse is what I do not know. And up until Trump/Harris debate I had no idea there was a small town in Ohio that had been taken over with immigrants.

That is exactly what a member of a cult would say. They never realize they have been manipulated into a cult, and very few escape the cult. That's how cults work and Trump's one great talent is manipulating people, often very good people, into his harmful cult.

A town in Ohio wasn't taken over by immigrants. The immigrants were welcomes into the town. The immigrants are adding economic help to the town and filling jobs that were hard to fill. Thanks to Trump and his cronies, the town is now receiving bomb threats, mostly from Trump supporters who don't even live in the town, at least that's what I heard today from a pastor of a church who seemed very humble and spoke of the nicer parts of the Christian message. The parts that are in sink with Secular Humanism. So, why are so many Christians being sucked up into this cult, when it goes against their message. I'm surprised to see some non believers sucked into the cult because I thought we were smart than that. I didn't think any of us would want to be part of a cult that supported things in Project 2025. I don't get. I don't get how anyone can support the horrible man that is a danger to the country, more than anyone in my lifetime.

Btw, Trump just said he plans on visiting Springfield, Ohio in the next two weeks, but he might not get out alive. Do you think that such talk is beneficial to Ohio? I think it will cause more danger to the people who live there, especially the perfectly legal Haitian immigrants who most of the locals are happy to have as part of their community, including the mayor, and small businesses.

But yeah. You can't handle the truth, sadly.

 

[RVonse]

If labor is a free market, then unfettered immigration is part of that free market. Yet you oppose unfettered immigration.
Oligarchy has competition. Pure monopoly is the only market structure without any competition. Oligarchs are simply acting in their self-perceived best interest, as does everyone in a free market. Yet you are complaining about oligarchs especially when they are "conspiring" to create and keep a free market in labor.

Yes, I oppose unfettered immigration when it harms the existing population. And yes, by biblical standards that would be selfish but that is how most of humanity is wired. We care about our own welfare more than we do our neighbors. Especially when our own welfare was established at great cost by our ancestors who fought and died for our way of life.

And I am against the oligarchs who you say are not monopolies. You may think they have our best interests at heart but I think they have their best interests at heart. And my best interest is best served by having as much competition as possible. For example, I wish there were more internet providers than just 2 in my area. I am sure I would be paying less on my internet bill if there were more providers and more opportunity to choose from.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As I recall, Trump was not holding any sort of government office when this bill came up yet somehow he killed it. And as I also recall, while the bill was addressing the border and having that title, it was not actually accomplishing anything productive to that end that could not be instantly done at the executive level.

It did something, and it was a fucking coup that the GOP pulled it off in the first place in the Senate.

In any case, it is an error on your part to call me a Trump fan which I am not. He has brought a lot of populous ideas forward but was terrible in the execution of any of it excepting his trade agreements.

Trade agreements? What trade agreements? They updated NAFTA to NAFTA 1.1, and he did it in the most dickish of ways.

Say what you would like about the maligniant narcissists making empty promises, at least they do us the service by informing the public of government stealth which goes by everyday. Trump's story of the dogs and cat lunacy was entertainment to laugh at but also served the purpose just how bad our borders have become.

No, it wasn't entertainment. It was bigotry to get his base riled up against the immigrants... and based on your posts, mission accomplished.

 

[ZiprHead]

America does not have a lot of jobs and we are trending the wrong direction. China has surpassed the US in GDP. Furthermore, we don't really want just a lot of jobs what we want is a lot of good jobs that can provide good incomes.

Who tells you this crap? This was something you could have easily confirmed for yourself that China's GDP is only about two thirds of the US.

But no, you again repeat the bullshit you were told by the freaks that just want to manipulate you for their own gains.

You continually allow them to make you look like a fool and all you can say is "Thank you, sir. May I have another." No one can take advantage of you without your permission.

 

[laughing dog]

If labor is a free market, then unfettered immigration is part of that free market. Yet you oppose unfettered immigration.
Oligarchy has competition. Pure monopoly is the only market structure without any competition. Oligarchs are simply acting in their self-perceived best interest, as does everyone in a free market. Yet you are complaining about oligarchs especially when they are "conspiring" to create and keep a free market in labor.

Yes, I oppose unfettered immigration when it harms the existing population. And yes, by biblical standards that would be selfish but that is how most of humanity is wired. We care about our own welfare more than we do our neighbors. Especially when our own welfare was established at great cost by our ancestors who fought and died for our way of life.

My point is that your position is inconsistent. Free markets are not consistent with controlled borders.

Our ancestors fought and died for their way of life, not mine or yours. My paternal great grandfather fought for the Union in the Civil War. I am sure my way of life is vastly different than his way of life.

And I am against the oligarchs who you say are not monopolies. You may think they have our best interests at heart but I think they have their best interests at heart. And my best interest is best served by having as much competition as possible. For example, I wish there were more internet providers than just 2 in my area. I am sure I would be paying less on my internet bill if there were more providers and more opportunity to choose from.

A monopoly is a single producer. Oligopolies have more than one firm.

I said nothing about our best interests. I said oligarchs act in their best interests. Just like everyone in a competitive market acts in their best interest. You simply approve of the outcomes in a very competitive market.

 

[RVonse]

America does not have a lot of jobs and we are trending the wrong direction. China has surpassed the US in GDP. Furthermore, we don't really want just a lot of jobs what we want is a lot of good jobs that can provide good incomes.

Who tells you this crap? This was something you could have easily confirmed for yourself that China's GDP is only about two thirds of the US.

But no, you again repeat the bullshit you were told by the freaks that just want to manipulate you for their own gains.

You continually allow them to make you look like a fool and all you can say is "Thank you, sir. May I have another." No one can take advantage of you without your permission.

Unpacking China's GDP | ChinaPower Project

This ChinaPower tracker includes 10 charts with up-to-date data to help unpack key aspects of China's GDP.

chinapower.csis.org

Measuring GDP at Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) accounts for price level differences and typically has a large impact when comparing wealthy countries to developing countries. China’s nominal GDP is the second-largest after the United States, but measured at PPP, China’s GDP is larger than that of the United States.

 

[Axulus]

Bipartisan border bill, Joe Biden said he would sign it, Trump didn't want it fixed because that would hurt his election chances, and effectively killed it.

That was a step in the right direction.

What border bill did Trump get passed? What wall did he get built? He was supposed to be some genius dealmaker and yet was too incompetient to make any deal with congress to get anything done. Don't listen to maligniant narcissists making empty promises and constantly spreading lies and fear.

As I recall, Trump was not holding any sort of government office when this bill came up yet somehow he killed it.

Yes, he is the leader of the Republician party. Of course what he says and wants is going to have a big influence on what congress does. Why wouldn't it? Especially with the slavish devotion his cult requires.

And as I also recall, while the bill was addressing the border and having that title, it was not actually accomplishing anything productive to that end that could not be instantly done at the executive level.

Where are you getting that from? It's absolute BS. It accomplished a lot. Was it as much as the MAGA wanted? Of course not, they essentially want zero immigration, both legal and illegal, no asylum, no refugees, etc. This bill did not eliminate that but it is much closer to what MAGA wants than what currently exists. It's called compromise and deal making.

Also, we have 3 branches of government. The executive carries out the law. Trump wants to break the law and our system of government because he is too incompetient to work with congress to get the laws he wants passed. You can't just create the border policy you want through executive order. We already have existing border laws and funding levels set by congress. Don't believe his lies.

In any case, it is an error on your part to call me a Trump fan which I am not. He has brought a lot of populous ideas forward but was terrible in the execution of any of it excepting his trade agreements. He never was nor is a politician.

Say what you would like about the maligniant narcissists making empty promises, at least they do us the service by informing the public of government stealth which goes by everyday. Trump's story of the dogs and cat lunacy was entertainment to laugh at but also served the purpose just how bad our borders have become.

It should horrify you that he spreads fear, hate, lies, conspiracies non-stop, greatly increasing the culture of political violence. Completely trashing our core institutions like free and fair elections, the courts, election officials, the justice department, the press, wants bypass congress, wants to overturn elections and actively tried hard to do it, breaking laws in the process.

He is using your fears and concerns for his own benefit. He doesn't give a shit about you.

And what the hell does targeting a legal immigrant group with lies and hate, riling up his deranged attack dogs to the point that they make bomb threats against them have anything to do with the border? Stop it with the nonsense!

 

[starwater]

I’ve seen hunters do this around a deer carcass. Never saw it at a cemetery. Never imagined seeing it at Arlington.

But I guarantee I’ll be snapping one at Fuckhead’s grave.

View attachment 47512

You have a propensity of believing outlandish lies you get from social media and exotic other sites online. So please, stop with your issues with lies. The borders aren't wide open. We are not being invaded. Stop believing the bullshit you are exposing yourself to.

Sorry but when a small city in Ohio suddenly increases by 20,000 new comers, the borders are open. That's not propaganda thats just reality.

Haitian immigrants are here legally, under the Immigration Parole Program. Once here, immigrants are then eligible to apply for Temporary Protected Status (TPS). Haiti is designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security for TPS. Current TPS is granted through February 3, 2026.

They went to Springfield because there are jobs that lazy whites don't want.

If the borders are so porous why did your cult leader hero aka stable genius call on his acolytes in congress not to pass the immigration reform bill?

You can twist the facts all you want to "own the libs" we aren't buying it.

{Citation needed]

Lazy whites? And you're calling others here racist?

I was only saying that to be sarcastic. I don’t believe any race as lazy. Sorry if that came out bad.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

WEll, maybe if you weren't so lazy with your writing...

 

[starwater]

WEll, maybe if you weren't so lazy with your writing...

I deserved that!

 

[scombrid]

What oligarchy are you on about?

Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

What in the World: A new report finds that an elite few dominate US policy, the human error behind South Korea's ferry tragedy, and Algeria's uneasy status quo election.

www.bbc.com

Back before the civil war the oligarchy were the plantation owners. Today it is the billionaire capitalist class who control our government to their benefit.

Some may say that an oligarchy is reached during late state capitalism and that may eventually be a result. But IMO oligarchy is almost the exact opposite of a free market. A free market can only be free where there is competition.

Trump and the Project 25 GOP are anti-competition. They favor corporate consolidation. They are the oligarchy. Yes corporate capture has a lot of Democrats ensnared. But it has the entire GOP top to bottom.

 

[scombrid]

I don’t know where his post that the southern plantation owners were the oligarchy before the civil war. That is not a complete picture. The northern industrialists didn’t fund the war out of the good of their hearts. They didn’t want the south to industrialize on slave labor. Once they got slavery out of the way they started moving textile manufacturing south where labor was cheaper, water plentiful, and close to the raw materials. The northern industrialist then took us into the gilded age which is where we again find ourselves.

 

[ZiprHead]

America does not have a lot of jobs and we are trending the wrong direction. China has surpassed the US in GDP. Furthermore, we don't really want just a lot of jobs what we want is a lot of good jobs that can provide good incomes.

Who tells you this crap? This was something you could have easily confirmed for yourself that China's GDP is only about two thirds of the US.

But no, you again repeat the bullshit you were told by the freaks that just want to manipulate you for their own gains.

You continually allow them to make you look like a fool and all you can say is "Thank you, sir. May I have another." No one can take advantage of you without your permission.

Unpacking China's GDP | ChinaPower Project

This ChinaPower tracker includes 10 charts with up-to-date data to help unpack key aspects of China's GDP.

chinapower.csis.org

Measuring GDP at Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) accounts for price level differences and typically has a large impact when comparing wealthy countries to developing countries. China’s nominal GDP is the second-largest after the United States, but measured at PPP, China’s GDP is larger than that of the United States.

PPP is not GDP. They are not the same yet you seem to think they are.

Per the IMF:

Does it make a difference?​

It depends. There is a large gap between market- and PPP-based rates in emerging market and developing countries, for most of which the ratio of the market and PPP U.S. dollar exchange rate is between 2 and 4. But for advanced economies, the market and PPP rates tend to be much closer. As a result, developing countries get a much higher weight in aggregations that use PPP exchange rates than they do using market exchange rates. The weights of China and India in the world economy are far greater using PPP exchange rates than market-based weights.

Thus, the choice of weights makes a big difference in calculations of global growth, but little difference to estimates of aggregate growth in advanced economies. The per capita income gap between the richest and poorest countries is modestly reduced under PPP exchange rates (although it remains exceptionally large), and some countries jump up or down the income scale depending on the exchange rate conversion used.

 

[pood]

It doesn't feel like a cult to me. I think I know exactly what Trump and MAGA represent because they are so obvious. Anyone with an IQ above 20 can probably understand most if not all the ego flaws of Trump, but he does not scare me at all. What I fear much worse is what I do not know. And up until Trump/Harris debate I had no idea there was a small town in Ohio that had been taken over with immigrants.

That is exactly what a member of a cult would say. They never realize they have been manipulated into a cult, and very few escape the cult. That's how cults work and Trump's one great talent is manipulating people, often very good people, into his harmful cult.

A town in Ohio wasn't taken over by immigrants. The immigrants were welcomes into the town. The immigrants are adding economic help to the town and filling jobs that were hard to fill. Thanks to Trump and his cronies, the town is now receiving bomb threats, mostly from Trump supporters who don't even live in the town, at least that's what I heard today from a pastor of a church who seemed very humble and spoke of the nicer parts of the Christian message. The parts that are in sink with Secular Humanism. So, why are so many Christians being sucked up into this cult, when it goes against their message. I'm surprised to see some non believers sucked into the cult because I thought we were smart than that. I didn't think any of us would want to be part of a cult that supported things in Project 2025. I don't get. I don't get how anyone can support the horrible man that is a danger to the country, more than anyone in my lifetime.

Btw, Trump just said he plans on visiting Springfield, Ohio in the next two weeks, but he might not get out alive. Do you think that such talk is beneficial to Ohio? I think it will cause more danger to the people who live there, especially the perfectly legal Haitian immigrants who most of the locals are happy to have as part of their community, including the mayor, and small businesses.

But yeah. You can't handle the truth, sadly.

Really, RVonse just said the bit you quoted, that until Trump told him he had “no idea there was a small town in Ohio that had been taken over with immigrants”? He really, actually wrote that? It at once boggles the mind, drops the jaw and immanentizes the eschaton, in a manner of speaking. These people are legal immigrants. The town wanted them. They have taken over important jobs and helped rebuild the city. And because of Trump, they are getting death threats. And RVonse APPROVES of this, because his cult hero Trump told him a bunch of lies that he believes are true? Yes, RVonse, the orange turd you worship will bring you White heaven on earth.

 

[ZiprHead]

It doesn't feel like a cult to me. I think I know exactly what Trump and MAGA represent because they are so obvious. Anyone with an IQ above 20 can probably understand most if not all the ego flaws of Trump, but he does not scare me at all. What I fear much worse is what I do not know. And up until Trump/Harris debate I had no idea there was a small town in Ohio that had been taken over with immigrants.

That is exactly what a member of a cult would say. They never realize they have been manipulated into a cult, and very few escape the cult. That's how cults work and Trump's one great talent is manipulating people, often very good people, into his harmful cult.

Q&A with Alexandra Stein on how to identify a cult | Psychwire...

Social psychologist and expert in ideological extremism, Alexandra...

psychwire.com

Q
When is a cult a cult? I was born into a religious group with a strong charismatic leader who exerted a lot of control but adult members don’t see it as a cult. What makes something cross the line?
A
People in a cult generally don't understand that they are in a cult! If they did, they would likely try to leave. It is often only on the way out, or after leaving, that people are able to identify that the group is cultic. Key signs of a cult are: isolating members from the outside world, controlling relationships within the cult (i.e. the leader has final say on relationships with family and friends), engulfment within the cult, and, usually, shunning of those who leave (unless they stay useful in some way). Importantly a cult also alternates fear messages with the idea that the cult is the only safe place. A cult will claim to have all the answers to all questions forever, and those answers can only come from the leadership. There are many other warning signs, but these are, I believe, the main ones.

My formal definition of a cult is: A cultic or totalist system is formed and controlled by a charismatic authoritarian leader, (which in later generations may become a leadership group). It is a rigidly bounded, dense, hierarchical and isolating social system supported and represented by a total, exclusive ideology. The leader sets in motion processes of brainwashing or coercive persuasion designed to isolate and control followers. As a result followers are able to be exploited, and potentially become deployable agents, demonstrating uncritical obedience to the group, regardless of their own survival needs.

 

[abaddon]

A new poll shows how stunningly gullible many Trump supporters are.

Washington Post article here.
The YouGov survey data is here. (PDF)

The major findings on what Trump supporters believe:

• A majority (52 percent) of Trump supporters say they believe the claim about Haitian migrants “abducting and eating pet dogs and cats.” ...
• 43 percent of Trump supporters say they believe that “in some states it is legal to kill a baby after birth”...
• 28 percent of Trump supporters say they believe that “public schools are providing students with sex-change operations,"...
• 81 percent of Trump supporters say they believe Venezuela is “deliberately sending people from prisons and mental institutions” to the United States....

.... the other claims that Trump supporters believe are more about statistics than ridiculous assertions.

For example, 77 percent say they believe the United States has given more aid to Ukraine than all of Europe combined (false), 70 percent say they believe millions of undocumented immigrants are arriving every month (false), and 70 percent say they believe inflation is at its highest rate ever (not true today or at any point in recent years).

.... what’s really striking about the new numbers is how much Trump’s conspiracy theories have caught on.

.... most Republicans have told pollsters that Trump didn’t try to overturn the 2020 election, that Trump didn’t have classified documents at Mar-a-Lago and that Trump’s offices were wiretapped during the 2016 election. And of course there is the 2020 stolen-election claim that as many as two-thirds of Republicans have believed.

.... we have apparently tens of millions of Americans embracing a truly bizarre version of reality based on little more than one man’s say-so.

Another aspect of this that's unsettling, are those who aren't as fully sure about these lies, but intend to vote for the pathological liar anyway.

 

[Patooka]

In any case, it is an error on your part to call me a Trump fan which I am not.

Firstly, only the MAGA faithful believe the 2020 Big Lie.

Secondly, your fucking previous posts are available for all to peruse at one's leisure. Especially the ones from 2017-2021. Do you have any idea how easy it is for anyone to disprove your "totally good faith and not BS at all" assertion?

 

[Toni]

Bipartisan border bill, Joe Biden said he would sign it, Trump didn't want it fixed because that would hurt his election chances, and effectively killed it.

That was a step in the right direction.

What border bill did Trump get passed? What wall did he get built? He was supposed to be some genius dealmaker and yet was too incompetient to make any deal with congress to get anything done. Don't listen to maligniant narcissists making empty promises and constantly spreading lies and fear.

As I recall, Trump was not holding any sort of government office when this bill came up yet somehow he killed it. And as I also recall, while the bill was addressing the border and having that title, it was not actually accomplishing anything productive to that end that could not be instantly done at the executive level.

In any case, it is an error on your part to call me a Trump fan which I am not. He has brought a lot of populous ideas forward but was terrible in the execution of any of it excepting his trade agreements. He never was nor is a politician.

Say what you would like about the maligniant narcissists making empty promises, at least they do us the service by informing the public of government stealth which goes by everyday. Trump's story of the dogs and cat lunacy was entertainment to laugh at but also served the purpose just how bad our borders have become.

You are correct: Trump effectively killed a bill that would make progress on border issues because passing that bipartisan bill would give him one less issue to run on.

How do we know he killed that bill?

Because he says he did

Now Trump is a known liar, infamously so even for a politician so sure, we could believe he was lying about this

OR we could recognize that the GOP has been held in thrall by Trump and his ability to raise money.

Neither speaks well of Trump or the GOP.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

We also have indirect evidence for his claim, in that the GOP did vote against the bill. That implies that they did what he wanted.

 

[bilby]

So done random guy pulls up unannounced telling some people he wants to interview them for his YouTube channel —about ‘what is going on around here.’ I would definitely not be inclined to be on the internet.

Anyone tries that around here, they are going to get trolled so hard that they will have even less of a clue what people think than they had to begin with.

Spinning a yarn is a traditional sport here. Of course, if the reporter isn't local, he probably won't survive the drop-bears for long enough to complete his interviews. In Australia, the pets eat the illegal aliens.