The DNC is the problem. Or is it?

[Jolly_Penguin]

This post, as I clearly said in the OP, is about those who think the only way to get progress is to hate the DNC and the grassroots it has built.

I don't believe you that these people "hate the DNC and the grassroots it has built".

People hate the corruption and lack of transparency within it. They want to change it. They want to fix it. That's why they run with the Democrat party. It is their party. They want it fixed. I don't understand why you have such a problem with that and demand they run third party. All that would accomplish is delaying progressive policy changes, so long as the first past the post and other 2 party system mechanics are in place.

 

[Rhea]

That's why they run with the Democrat party. It is their party.

Pathetic. You claim to know what Democrats want while calling it “The Democrat Party”?

Democrat Party is an epithet for the Democratic Party of the United States, used in a disparaging fashion by the party's opponents.

Democrats call it, and always have, “The Democratic Party.” You have no credibility trying to say what members of the Democratic Party want.

This progressive member of the Democratic Party sees you.

 

[Angry Floof]

I'd bring up a "Name the candidates Sanders supported in the primaries in 2018 That Won" challenge. This is important for realizing that the DNC is trying to win elections in states like Texas and Louisiana and Utah as well as New York. The demographics vary heavily. Senator Jones in Alabama isn't getting elected if he strays too far from right of center, but can vote to get the big really important stuff through, ie, picking your fights.

Ocasio-Cortez's victory in New York seemed to be some sort of odd canary in the coalmine event for some progressives that mistook it for a national movement... when in fact, while Ocasio-Cortez did score an upset victory, she did so in a dark blue district in a heavy Latino community that personally identified with her.

Just to save everyone looking it up: https://ballotpedia.org/Endorsements_by_Bernie_Sanders

 

[Toni]

Is it?
Is it really hard to believe when I’ve walked the walk?

Yes. It is. You say you have walked the walk and want progressive policy and yet here you are whining about people who want more transparency and less corruption in the electoral process and in your party and DNC, and as you stand against progressive candidates.

And no, I am not a "constitutionalist" or whatever. I am a liberal. One who doesn't live in your country and who has much of what your liberals are striving to get, as you stand against them because you want them to build a third party in a first past the post system first.

I encourage the liberals and progressives in your country becauase I want them to enjoy the freedom I do, and if things keep moving in Bernie's direction you may even surpass my country and I will be envious..

Thanks, but no thanks for your half baked ill informed patronizing efforts to get us to become as enlightened as you are.

Because guess what: you're not.

 

[Rhea]

The votes are there IF the "vote blue no matter who" anti-Trump brigade is true. If they are then it doesn't matter if a more progressive candidate is made the nominee. They will vote for them so long as they at not Trump. Or are you arguing that they are NOT going to vote blue if the candidate is too progressive?

If the progressive support is conditional and the non-progressive support is unconditional... Then your best shot is with a progressive candidate, no?

So you’re saying, go with the unreliable voters. Trust us, we’ll be there for you ~cough~

That’s their argument? We’re whiney bitches, so you should give us what we want or we’ll throw a tantrum?
Really?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

That's why they run with the Democrat party. It is their party.

Pathetic. You claim to know what Democrats want while calling it “The Democrat Party”?

I will call it the "Democratic" party if and when it gets fully rid of those superdelegates and other non-Democratic practices. Ironically the Republican primary is more democratic than the Democrat primary is.

I noticed how you ducked the actual content of my post, and how you continue to duck the contents of the posts of the other progressives here.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Thanks, but no thanks for your half baked ill informed patronizing efforts to get us to become as enlightened as you are.

Because guess what: you're not.

Canada is considerably further along in progressive policy than the USA is. We have had universal single payer as long as I can remember, since 1962 when it was brought in here. I have enjoyed it my entire time in this country. If you keep on your anti-progressive stance, I dare say that yes, we ARE more enlightened than you are.

 

[laughing dog]

That's why they run with the Democrat party. It is their party.

Pathetic. You claim to know what Democrats want while calling it “The Democrat Party”?

I will call it the "Democratic" party if and when it gets fully rid of those superdelegates and other non-Democratic practices. Ironically the Republican primary is more democratic than the Democrat primary is.

I noticed how you ducked the actual content of my post, and how you continue to duck the contents of the posts of the other progressives here.

Actually, she didn't.

I am getting pretty sick and tired of the extortion from the Bernie bros - you want to beat Trump, vote for Sanders because we won't support any other candidate. It was exactly that sentiment that helped get us Trump in 2016.

If they don't like Trump, then they should support any candidate that emerges from the Democratic party or STFU about Trump.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The votes are there IF the "vote blue no matter who" anti-Trump brigade is true. If they are then it doesn't matter if a more progressive candidate is made the nominee. They will vote for them so long as they at not Trump. Or are you arguing that they are NOT going to vote blue if the candidate is too progressive?

If the progressive support is conditional and the non-progressive support is unconditional... Then your best shot is with a progressive candidate, no?

So you’re saying, go with the unreliable voters. Trust us, we’ll be there for you ~cough~

That’s their argument? We’re whiney bitches, so you should give us what we want or we’ll throw a tantrum?
Really?

Your whiny response doesn't actually address the logic in what I and others have written. If you truly want to defeat Trump and believe your conservative Democrats will vote blue no matter who to get that done, and that the liberal and progressive "Bernie Bros" may not, then will you really let your ego get in the way of the ousting of Trump you claim to be for?

Or are you going to admit that many conservative or "moderate" Democrats actually won't vote blue if it's Bernie?

 

[laughing dog]

Thanks, but no thanks for your half baked ill informed patronizing efforts to get us to become as enlightened as you are.

Because guess what: you're not.

Canada is considerably further along in progressive policy than the USA is. We have had universal single payer as long as I can remember, since 1962 when it was brought in here. I have enjoyed it my entire time in this country. If you keep on your anti-progressive stance, I dare say that yes, we ARE more enlightened than you are.

And yet, curling is not your national sport, so Canada is not terribly enlightened.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Thanks, but no thanks for your half baked ill informed patronizing efforts to get us to become as enlightened as you are.

Because guess what: you're not.

Canada is considerably further along in progressive policy than the USA is. We have had universal single payer as long as I can remember, since 1962 when it was brought in here. I have enjoyed it my entire time in this country. If you keep on your anti-progressive stance, I dare say that yes, we ARE more enlightened than you are.

And yet, curling is not your national sport, so Canada is not terribly enlightened.

Our national sports are lacrosse and hockey, not that that is in any way relevant.

I do agree with you though. Canada could stand to be more enlightened. We don't have dental or pharmacare included in our universal single payer healthcare, and we should. And if you get that done under Bernie you will surpass us and I will be envious.

 

[PyramidHead]

You all keep wondering why I appear to expect people who say they hate the DNC, who say they are idealists who answer to no corporatists, why they don’t do the easy free work of establishing a mandate through grass-roots building.

Welcome to the 2020 Bernie Sanders campaign! Do you want to phonebank, text, or knock on doors?

That’s not a lasting mandate. That’s a cult of personality trying to parachute into the CEO position without building a back bench. And I find their aggressive harassment of other progressives very distasteful. I supported him at first for his ideas. I left him because he is not a builder.

Cult of personality lol

 

[Toni]

The votes are there IF the "vote blue no matter who" anti-Trump brigade is true. If they are then it doesn't matter if a more progressive candidate is made the nominee. They will vote for them so long as they at not Trump. Or are you arguing that they are NOT going to vote blue if the candidate is too progressive?

If the progressive support is conditional and the non-progressive support is unconditional... Then your best shot is with a progressive candidate, no?

So you’re saying, go with the unreliable voters. Trust us, we’ll be there for you ~cough~

That’s their argument? We’re whiney bitches, so you should give us what we want or we’ll throw a tantrum?
Really?

Your whiny response doesn't actually address the logic in what I and others have written. If you truly want to defeat Trump and believe your conservative Democrats will vote blue no matter who to get that done, and that the liberal and progressive "Bernie Bros" may not, then will you really let your ego get in the way of the ousting of Trump you claim to be for?

Or are you going to admit that many conservative or "moderate" Democrats actually won't vote blue if it's Bernie?

I don’t see how anybody American here has anything—anything at all to prove or justify [removed insult] about the political system and parties in the USA.

 

[PyramidHead]

Wow @ "foreigner". Mask fucking off, Toni

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You mean from a guy taking credit for Canadian infrastructure that was in place before he ever moved to the country?

Wow @ "foreigner". Mask fucking off, Toni

Yeah, as long as we ignore the context of months of postings.

Jebus, you don't even want Sanders as President. The guy isn't a radical and you have to "hold your nose" (I believe that is a direct quote of yours) to vote for a guy you don't really want... and then for some reason are upset that people actually are questionable on a Sanders candidacy as well, just for different reasons. That is called hypocrisy.

 

[laughing dog]

Wow @ "foreigner". Mask fucking off, Toni

I realize that reality is difficult for you to comprehend, but JP is a Canadian which makes him a foreigner.

 

[PyramidHead]

Wow @ "foreigner". Mask fucking off, Toni

I realize that reality is difficult for you to comprehend, but JP is a Canadian which makes him a foreigner.

Your honor, the man has dark skin compared to the median of the population, and so there's really no malice in simply calling him a "darkie" as an innocuous acknowledgement of that purely aesthetic difference

 

[PyramidHead]

Seriously, I disagree with JP on a lot and laugh that he was a Yang Ganger, but his takes are consistently closer to what is actually happening in the country and in your dumb, inneffective opposition party than anything Toni or Jimmy has to say. Calling him out on being a fOrEiGnEr as if we don't all have access to the same information and the same 24-hour coverage of this shitshow is petty and vindictive

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Wow @ "foreigner". Mask fucking off, Toni

I realize that reality is difficult for you to comprehend, but JP is a Canadian which makes him a foreigner.

Your honor, the man has dark skin compared to the median of the population, and so there's really no malice in simply calling him a "darkie" as an innocuous acknowledgement of that purely aesthetic difference

I do have dark skin. Almond shaped eyes too. I didn't personally take credit for my country's superior health care system. I said I have it and have enjoyed it for decades and that I would like the same for the rest of you. I even wrote that if The US surpasses Canada and get dental and pharmacare that the US will be more enlightened than Canada. Nor is it I that introduced the term "enlightened". That was also Toni in another lame straw man attack. Lame straw man attacks is all these conservatives have when they full well know they have zero points on the issues.

 

[Politesse]

I would be willing to import Canadians to do our voting for us.