The Race For 2024

[Elixir]

To make this action particularly reprehensible, he is tying this event to soldiers killed in Afghanistan and the messy withdrawal done during the Biden administration. The press is actually half on his Trump's side--claiming that Biden bears the responsibility for everything that went wrong after Biden took office, facing only a few months to withdraw all troops under an agreement that Donald Trump made with the Taliban a year before.

Yep.

 

[Shadowy Man]

If he had taken office in 2021, the mess would have been dumped squarely in his own lap, since he had not lifted a finger to plan for the withdrawal.

he likely would have simply backed out of the deal.

 

[Elixir]

I remember that whole sequence too well. Really thought someone would throw a net over that fucker at the time. Outrageous.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is there any word why this whole thing was set up in the first place? Are people who lost loved ones in military service always hitting Trump up to join them at Arlington?

I don't know about there being any word on that issue, but Trump's alleged disrespect for the soldiers who have fallen in battle or been captured is a problem for his image during an election campaign. This activity was obviously designed to help with that problem.

To make this action particularly reprehensible, he is tying this event to soldiers killed in Afghanistan and the messy withdrawal done during the Biden administration.

I disagree that this was meant to help Trump manage his distaste with Veterans and rather, as you note it has everything to do with trying to blame Biden for those deaths in Afghanistan. A retreat that, for intents and purposes, was as smooth as could ever be hoped for.

The press is actually half on Trump's side--claiming that Biden bears the responsibility for everything that went wrong after Biden took office, facing only a few months to withdraw all troops under an agreement that Donald Trump made with the Taliban a year before. Biden's hands were tied by Trump, but he still managed to extend the date of the pullout by several months. The public pretty much sees the whole thing as Biden's fiasco, not Trump's. Trump must get a kick out of how that worked out for him. If he had taken office in 2021, the mess would have been dumped squarely in his own lap, since he had not lifted a finger to plan for the withdrawal.

Yeah. The buck stops at Biden, but Trump made the deal to hand off the nation to the Taliban. Heck, we were coordinating with them with security. And I don't believe the Taliban were being the attack, at least not those in charge. The collapse of the Afghan Army was much faster than even the worst case scenarios, but ultimately, the US managed to leave Afghanistan with little of value behind, and unlike what would have happened under Trump, we did manage to get a good deal of the locals that helped our military out of there as well. Those that died were lost in a cause that was destined the second the W Admin decided to look over at Iraq and walk away form Afghanistan.

And it is repugnant to visibly blame Biden for the deaths directly. Even the GOP hasn't investigated the retreat... like they did with Benghazi.

 

[Elixir]

it is repugnant to visibly blame Biden for the [13] deaths directly. Even the GOP hasn't investigated the retreat... like they did with Benghazi.

Especially given the 63 American service persons who died in Afghanistan under Trump’s incompetence.

 

[Swammerdami]

Poor Trump lost billions in San Francisco, but he doesn't care. And he's proud to be the worst-treated President in all of history.

https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1829262106341822465/vid/avc1/480x270/d52YWof_VEHw29T5.mp4

(Sorry to link to a Twitter video. At least it doesn't ask for a password.)

@Swammerdami What is in the video? What do you consider the salient points? Readers should not have to leave this site to be in the conversation.

It starts "She destroyed the city of San Francisco..." and goes on for another 54 seconds. He makes two main points which I already summarized:
"Poor Trump lost billions in San Francisco, but he doesn't care. And he's proud to be the worst-treated President in all of history."

Some of us find it fun to listen to Trump. Are his "communication skills" deteriorating?

 

[Ford]

Is there any word why this whole thing was set up in the first place? Are people who lost loved ones in military service always hitting Trump up to join them at Arlington?

My understanding is that it was staged as to make it seem like Harris was shirking her duty somehow, and that it should have been her and Biden at Arlington. Which is bullshit because the families in question are die hard Trump supporters and wouldn't have asked them in the first place.

This is the Trump campaign throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks.

 

[pood]

It turns out that the intrepid Trump photo op entourage manhandled a woman employee of the cemetery, shoving her aside, to make and illegal campaign film in violation of the Code of Federal Regulations:

Title 32 Subtitle A Chapter V Subchapter D Part 553

The reason that the government prohibits using cemeteries for campaign events is that such events do not have the consent of those interred there or their families to have their gravesites used as political props. If that were allowed, we would see a never-ending stream of politicians trying to use the cemeteries for those purposes. In this case, the family that invited Donald Trump did not have permission to use the cemetery as a backdrop for his campaign photo op, no matter what they may have thought. People can only take private photos there for personal use. Trump's campaign falsely claimed to have permission, as the Army has made clear, and the woman who was physically shoved aside was not having a mental problem. She was doing her job.

US Army rebukes Trump campaign for incident at Arlington National Cemetery​

So far, no apologies from the Trump campaign, but does anyone expect contrition on their part? They got what they wanted. That's the kind of people they are and the kind of candidate they are promoting.

The time Lincoln visited up to 6,000 wounded soldiers in one day, including Confederates.

 

[bilby]

Isn't this a security risk? I mean, public photos clearly showing the names of recently killed soldiers is a free kick for foreign actors who have a social media department.

Obviously this is minor compared to all the other espionage shit Trump has done, but it's still not good. Or am I missing something?

Trump and his weird team have no respect for veterans and the law. He's claiming that he had the permission from the families to mock the graves. Even it true, doesn't matter. It's against federal law. Period.

That's like a hitman defending himself by saying he had permission from his victim's family ("hey, they even paid me good money to do it!").

 

[bilby]

Trump's alleged disrespect for the soldiers who have fallen in battle or been captured is a problem for his image during an election campaign.

You mis-spelled "observed".

Trump's lack of respect for literally anything is well documented. It's particularly noticeable with regards to fallen soldiers and POWs, only because it stands in stark contrast with the deep respect usually afforded to those groups almost universally.

Finding someone who disrespects fallen soldiers, even in today's Republican Party, is quite unusual. But Trump respects nothing and nobody.

 

[Copernicus]

Trump's alleged disrespect for the soldiers who have fallen in battle or been captured is a problem for his image during an election campaign.

You mis-spelled "observed".

Trump's lack of respect for literally anything is well documented. It's particularly noticeable with regards to fallen soldiers and POWs, only because it stands in stark contrast with the deep respect usually afforded to those groups almost universally.

Finding someone who disrespects fallen soldiers, even in today's Republican Party, is quite unusual. But Trump respects nothing and nobody.

I was thinking of the allegations made by John Kelly regarding Trump's infamous remarks and behavior. These are only controversial, because Trump disputes them. So Republicans generally dismiss them as unproven, and MAGA zealots consider them outright fabrications.

For example, see:

Exclusive: John Kelly goes on the record to confirm several disturbing stories about Trump​

 

[ZiprHead]

At this point I can't see how the '24 election is that important, the real key being the '28 election. Whichever one wins in '24 will serve one term only: Trump because he'll be termed out, Harris because she'll lose in '28.

Right now both sides see the government as a cudgel with which to pummel their opponents.

The candidate who wins in '28 will determine if we continue down the road to self-destruction or if there will be an attempt to put the US on a better track. The big test will be to see if that person stops the process of lawfare against rivals and prosecuting the loser of an electoral contest.

You need to update your eyeglass prescrption.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

At this point I can't see how the '24 election is that important, the real key being the '28 election. Whichever one wins in '24 will serve one term only: Trump because he'll be termed out, Harris because she'll lose in '28.

Right now both sides see the government as a cudgel with which to pummel their opponents.

The candidate who wins in '28 will determine if we continue down the road to self-destruction or if there will be an attempt to put the US on a better track. The big test will be to see if that person stops the process of lawfare against rivals and prosecuting the loser of an electoral contest.

You need to update your eyeglass prescrption.

You won't like the persecution of political opponents once the other side gets the cudgel. The problem with Democrats is they never anticipate the more abusive powers they grant ever being used against them.

 

[ZiprHead]

At this point I can't see how the '24 election is that important, the real key being the '28 election. Whichever one wins in '24 will serve one term only: Trump because he'll be termed out, Harris because she'll lose in '28.

Right now both sides see the government as a cudgel with which to pummel their opponents.

The candidate who wins in '28 will determine if we continue down the road to self-destruction or if there will be an attempt to put the US on a better track. The big test will be to see if that person stops the process of lawfare against rivals and prosecuting the loser of an electoral contest.

You need to update your eyeglass prescrption.

You won't like the persecution of political opponents once the other side gets the cudgel. The problem with Democrats is they never anticipate the more abusive powers they grant ever being used against them.

Really? Have you heard of Project 2025.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

At this point I can't see how the '24 election is that important, the real key being the '28 election. Whichever one wins in '24 will serve one term only: Trump because he'll be termed out, Harris because she'll lose in '28.

Right now both sides see the government as a cudgel with which to pummel their opponents.

The candidate who wins in '28 will determine if we continue down the road to self-destruction or if there will be an attempt to put the US on a better track. The big test will be to see if that person stops the process of lawfare against rivals and prosecuting the loser of an electoral contest.

You need to update your eyeglass prescrption.

You won't like the persecution of political opponents once the other side gets the cudgel. The problem with Democrats is they never anticipate the more abusive powers they grant ever being used against them.

For example, the sledgehammer, Presidential immunity. Oh, wait, Democrats didn’t do that, did they?

 

[pood]

At this point I can't see how the '24 election is that important, the real key being the '28 election. Whichever one wins in '24 will serve one term only: Trump because he'll be termed out, Harris because she'll lose in '28.

Right now both sides see the government as a cudgel with which to pummel their opponents.

The candidate who wins in '28 will determine if we continue down the road to self-destruction or if there will be an attempt to put the US on a better track. The big test will be to see if that person stops the process of lawfare against rivals and prosecuting the loser of an electoral contest.

You need to update your eyeglass prescrption.

You won't like the persecution of political opponents once the other side gets the cudgel. The problem with Democrats is they never anticipate the more abusive powers they grant ever being used against them.

Democrats aren’t persecuting anyone. Trump has been properly indicted for obliviously breaking the law, including instigating an attempted coup, stealing state secrets and showing them to others, and attempting to pressure officials in Georgia and other states to conjure votes for him that did not exist. The man is obviously a criminal and belongs in federal prison. He has already been found guilty in a civil case of sexual abuse and in a felony criminal case of business fraud involving concealing payments to a porn star whom he fucked. What the hell is wrong with people, that they can’t see what an obvious criminal sociopath Felonious Gunk is?

 

[unapologetic]

Found this bumper sticker:

 

[Elixir]

GAWD he’s a fucking idiot.

 

[Copernicus]

The candidate who wins in '28 will determine if we continue down the road to self-destruction or if there will be an attempt to put the US on a better track. The big test will be to see if that person stops the process of lawfare against rivals and prosecuting the loser of an electoral contest.

Which indictments of Donald Trump do you consider lawfare? Are there any that you consider meritless and only undertaken as a way to delegitimize or damage Donald Trump?

Donald Trump himself is known for using the legal system to damage people by entangling them in frivolous lawsuits. He also pursued many frivolous lawsuits in an effort to delegitimize or overturn the results of the 2020 election. Do you consider any of Trump's indictments to have been frivolous?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

EVERY recent president has done things that I consider worth being put in jail. The sad thing is you are harping all over a paperwork error and pretending J6 was an insurrection instead of paying attention to a much more egregious action.