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The Race For 2024

Jason Harvestdancer said:
EVERY recent president has done things that I consider worth being put in jail. The sad thing is you are harping all over a paperwork error and pretending J6 was an insurrection instead of paying attention to a much more egregious action.
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Bullshit.

From insurrection to theft of government documents, the list of crimes committed by Trump is huge. You're going to have to be clear if you expect anyone to believe that either Obama or Biden did anything remotely close.
Tom
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
EVERY recent president has done things that I consider worth being put in jail. The sad thing is you are harping all over a paperwork error and pretending J6 was an insurrection instead of paying attention to a much more egregious action.
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You did not answer my question. Which of the Trump indictments do you consider "lawfare"?

Your feeling that every recent president should be put in jail is an evasion, not an answer. Which of the 34 checks that Donald Trump signed were a "paperwork error"? The jury heard witnesses, saw the evidence, and unanimously agreed that they were deliberate crimes.

As for J6, Donald Trump is not charged with insurrection, although I consider him guilty of that crime. The criminal charges were that he attempted to overturn a legitimate election. Two separate grand juries returned an indictment on four specific charges:

  • one count of conspiracy to defraud the United States applies to Trump's repeated and widespread efforts to spread false claims about the November 2020 election while knowing they were not true and for allegedly attempting to illegally discount legitimate votes all with the goal of overturning the 2020 election, prosecutors claim in the indictment.
  • one count of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding was brought due to the alleged organized planning by Trump and his allies to disrupt the electoral vote's certification in January 2021.
  • one count of obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding is tied to Trump and his co-conspirators' alleged efforts after the November 2020 election until Jan. 7, 2021, to block the official certification proceeding in Congress.
  • one count of conspiracy against rights refers to Trump and his co-conspirators alleged attempts to "oppress, threaten and intimidate" people in their right to vote in an election.
Source:

The charges facing Trump in the Jan. 6 investigation, explained​



Here is the question again, in case you have already forgotten: Which of the Trump indictments do you consider "lawfare"?
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Yes, those are bullshit. Trump wasn't behind the protest, the protest wasn't an insurrection.
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I'd find it hard to believe that you bought that load if I didn't know a bunch of gullible Trumpistas around here.

Trump organized a violent attack on the government because he didn't like having lost both the popular election and the EC. There's tons of evidence for that, largely from the Insurrectionists themselves.
Tom
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Yes, those are bullshit. Trump wasn't behind the protest, the protest wasn't an insurrection.
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There is plenty of evidence that Trump was behind the protest, since he himself invited everyone to show up at the Jan 6 rally and used that rally to urge them to march on the Capitol. The only thing preventing him from going with his audience was that the Secret Service would not let him. He reportedly threw a huge temper tantrum in the limo and tried to grab the steering wheel.

You may have already forgotten that Trump is not charged with insurrection, but other crimes, which I listed. And you have still not bothered to answer my question. Which indictments do you consider "lawfare"? You used that word earlier, but now it seems stuck in your throat.


Jason Harvestdancer said:
Here's something that Trump should be charged with: Killing of Nawar al-Awlaki

The problem is, if we prosecute Trump for war crimes, we'd have to go there for Biden, Obama, and Bush the lesser.
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The Supreme Court has granted presidents absolute immunity for crimes committed as official government acts. These killings were all committed by US forces under orders from the administration at the time. Try to keep up.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Trump wasn't behind the protest, the protest wasn't an insurrection.
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At least two Grand Juries say that’s bullshit.
Of course you have examined all the evidence more carefully than they have, right?
Oh, I forgot - Libbertroids don’t need no steenkin evidence to shore up their Trumpist fantasies.
The hubris and stupidity are stunning.
 
Elixir said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Trump wasn't behind the protest, the protest wasn't an insurrection.
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At least two Grand Juries say that’s bullshit.
Of course you have examined all the evidence more carefully than they have, right?
Oh, I forgot - Libbertroids don’t need no steenkin evidence to shore up their Trumpist fantasies.
The hubris and stupidity are stunning.
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I mean, Trump literally organized the protest. Do these people think there was a stage already there, with bulletproof glass, a microphone, speakers, a schedule, Secret Service protection, and probably a few permits and communications with local law enforcement just waiting around to see if something happened? Do these people forget Trump tweeting and telling his followers to come to the Capitol and that "it'll be wild?" Or the part where he used that microphone and sound system to tell his followers to march on the Capitol and that he'd be there with them? Or the reports of him actually wanting to go there but his SS detail basically telling him no because they (correctly) guessed it wouldn't be safe? Or the reports that he was happily watching the riot for an hour before his staff started trying to convince him to tell his supporters to stop storming the fucking Capitol building? That they said "they brought a gallows and are chanting 'hang Mike Pence' and his reaction was (basically), "cool!"

Jesus fucking Christ on a stick these people are idiots.
 
Ford said:
Elixir said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Trump wasn't behind the protest, the protest wasn't an insurrection.
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At least two Grand Juries say that’s bullshit.
Of course you have examined all the evidence more carefully than they have, right?
Oh, I forgot - Libbertroids don’t need no steenkin evidence to shore up their Trumpist fantasies.
The hubris and stupidity are stunning.
Click to expand...
I mean, Trump literally organized the protest. Do these people think there was a stage already there, with bulletproof glass, a microphone, speakers, a schedule, Secret Service protection, and probably a few permits and communications with local law enforcement just waiting around to see if something happened? Do these people forget Trump tweeting and telling his followers to come to the Capitol and that "it'll be wild?" Or the part where he used that microphone and sound system to tell his followers to march on the Capitol and that he'd be there with them? Or the reports of him actually wanting to go there but his SS detail basically telling him no because they (correctly) guessed it wouldn't be safe? Or the reports that he was happily watching the riot for an hour before his staff started trying to convince him to tell his supporters to stop storming the fucking Capitol building? That they said "they brought a gallows and are chanting 'hang Mike Pence' and his reaction was (basically), "cool!"

Jesus fucking Christ on a stick these people are idiots.
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It takes a fair degree of intelligence to figure out how to rationalize really stupid things like support for Donald Trump to become president.
 
As a Georgia voter, this one pisses me off a lot, as well as what the Republican thugs have been doing to Fanni Willis.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/fact-check-trumps-georgia-call-raffensperger

Donald Trump’s infamous call to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger is now a key piece of evidence in the criminal investigations into the former president’s attempts to overturn the 2020 election. During the January 2, 2021, call, Trump invoked several false claims of widespread voter fraud to pressure Raffensperger to reverse the state’s election results, ranging from lies about out-of-state and dead voters to conspiracy theories about drop box stuffing and compromised election equipment. These false claims drove the January 6 attack on the Capitol and continueto damage our democracy.

For years, the Brennan Center has debunked the voter fraud myths that undermine trust in American elections. The claims Trump made during his phone call with Raffensperger are no different: each has been proven false again and again. Below are several of the falsehoods followed by evidence disproving them.
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So, even the above article gives evidence that the attack on the capital was related to Trump's false claims about the election. There's more info regarding Trump's numerous false claims that have been debunked in the linked piece. No president is perfect, but I've never seen one who is such an obvious criminal as Trump. He's been a grifter, a racist and a sexist who has sexually assaulted women numerous times. The Trump supporters have really had a long drink of the Kool-Aide, sadly.

Anyway, there is hope. Right now, Harris is leading in Georgia and I'm even seeing more Harris signs on my side of town and I live in the more conservative side of town. Of course, there are plenty of Trump signs out, but in the last election, I don't remember seeing more than one or two Biden signs near me. Voter registrations are on the rise, especially among young people, women and minorities. I doubt most of them are going to vote for Trump.
 
Elixir said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Trump wasn't behind the protest, the protest wasn't an insurrection.
Click to expand...
At least two Grand Juries say that’s bullshit.
Of course you have examined all the evidence more carefully than they have, right?
Oh, I forgot - Libbertroids don’t need no steenkin evidence to shore up their Trumpist fantasies.
The hubris and stupidity are stunning.
Click to expand...
It's almost like you didn't read the part where I described where there were acts Trump committed that I think are crimes. Very serious crimes.

Wait, it isn't almost like that, it is exactly like that.

Because the crime I described is one that would also implicate Biden and Obama. Can't have that. Don't pay attention to those crimes. Only pay attention to bullshit conspiracy theories about how Trump planned a J6 insurrection. Your tinfoil hat is too tight, it's cutting off your circulation.
 
Copernicus said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
The candidate who wins in '28 will determine if we continue down the road to self-destruction or if there will be an attempt to put the US on a better track. The big test will be to see if that person stops the process of lawfare against rivals and prosecuting the loser of an electoral contest.
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Which indictments of Donald Trump do you consider lawfare? Are there any that you consider meritless and only undertaken as a way to delegitimize or damage Donald Trump?

Donald Trump himself is known for using the legal system to damage people by entangling them in frivolous lawsuits. He also pursued many frivolous lawsuits in an effort to delegitimize or overturn the results of the 2020 election.
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Is this factual? If my memory serves, most of Trump's lawsuits were over mostly frivolous things, though did include stuff like not allowing counting of ballots after a particular date like thresholds. These were attempts to limit ballot counts in states like GA and PA seeing Biden overcome the lead Trump had earlier.

Trump made no claims of fraud in court, his main route to delegitimize the election, primarily because he had zero evidence of it.
 
thebeave said:
I don't get it. Not much happens in the video. Did I miss something significant? And what does IJBOL mean?
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The only thing I can see is the word "fuckin'", which maybe women are not supposed to say? I dunno. IJBOL stands for "I Just Burst Out Laughing" in internet acronym slang.
 
Copernicus said:
thebeave said:
I don't get it. Not much happens in the video. Did I miss something significant? And what does IJBOL mean?
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The only thing I can see is the word "fuckin'", which maybe women are not supposed to say? I dunno. IJBOL stands for "I Just Burst Out Laughing" in internet acronym slang.
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Sheesh. Is there a Geezer’s Online Guide To Acronyms (GOGTA) somewhere?
(Urban dictionary can’t keep up)
 
thebeave said:
ZiprHead said:
According to right wingers, this video is going to destroy Harris' campaign.

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I don't get it. Not much happens in the video. Did I miss something significant? And what does IJBOL mean?
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I believe "IJBOL" is a shorthand for "ROFL", which itself is an abbreviation of "LOL". In my day, we took the time to type out the entire word "Ha".
 
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