The Race For 2024

[Patooka]

The only true knock against Biden is his age.

I'm not a fan of looking for qualities I'd like in a President because as I've stated before I don't believe in the Great Man Theory. I will say Biden's age for me means jack shit because he has compensated for it by surrounding himself with people one tenth his age. Last time I checked, that's effective leadership when you appoint key people who can achieve the things or present the things you can't. It is certainly preferable than surrounding oneself with monochromatic yes men whose sole quality is fellating one's ego (hypothetically speaking of course).

 

[Tigers!]

It was never supposed to be Joe Biden, it was supposed to be his son Beau Biden, who had a solid pedigree, but cancer killed him. And yes, Biden is hardly the first, second, or third choice. Of course, of Biden and Trump, complaining about Biden being the candidate in the same breath as Trump... that's a bit disproporationate?

Eh? Maybe. 2020 Dem primaries showed us a decent number of good candidates for POTUS.

And Biden defeated them all.

From my limited vantage point downunder (which might distort vision) it looked more like Biden was anointed or crowned rather than defeating his opponents.

 

[ZiprHead]

From my limited vantage point downunder (which might distort vision) it looked more like Biden was anointed or crowned rather than defeating his opponents.

I agree. Your vision is distorted.

 

[bilby]

Calling the general media in the US the "MSM" while complaining about it as propaganda is ridiculously silly.

The implication that there is a more trustworthy "Non-mainstream Media" is particularly absurd.

Certainly there's a degree of propaganda and untrustworthiness in any media source; But this doesn't become less of a problem as you move towards the fringe.

Mainstream media is inherently untrustworthy, and anything they say should be checked before being believed. But nevertheless, it is the pinnacle of trustworthiness. It's not great, but there's absolutely nothing better.

It's mainstream because it's not always untrustworthy.

The only real value in the descriptor "MSM" is that it tells you that the person unironically using that acronym, is a gullible fool whose opinions you can safely disregard.

 

[bilby]

I will say Biden's age for me means jack shit because he has compensated for it by surrounding himself with people one tenth his age.

He's employing eight year olds???

 

[Shadowy Man]

Guy had a bunch of protestors gassed so he could do a photo op with AN UPSIDE DOWN Bible.

FIFY.
What an imbecilic scumbag.

Satanism is a perfectly valid religion.

When I first glanced at this post it looked like "Sarcasm is a perfectly valid religion." and I thought to myself; "Hell,yeah! I've finally found religion!" Satanism, not so much... sigh.

 

[lpetrich]

Asa Hutchinson: My campaign living 'paycheck to paycheck' - Dec. 21, 2023, 12:13 p.m. ET

“We certainly don’t have the megadonors behind our campaign and we’re not self-funded like some candidates, so we’re living like many Americans — from paycheck to paycheck,” said the 73-year-old, who ended last quarter with just $325,287 cash on hand, according to federal records.

To defeat Trump, Asa Hutchinson needs to endorse Nikki Haley - Dec. 29, 2023, 11:07 AM PST - "Hutchinson's primary campaign has been based on principle. But if he actually wants to see Donald Trump lose, he must drop out — now."

Asa Hutchinson says he wants to outperform Vivek Ramaswamy in the Iowa Caucuses (paywalled)

Given how Trumpie the Republican base is, and how Trumpie VR is, that will be an uphill battle for him.

 

[Toni]

It was never supposed to be Joe Biden, it was supposed to be his son Beau Biden, who had a solid pedigree, but cancer killed him. And yes, Biden is hardly the first, second, or third choice. Of course, of Biden and Trump, complaining about Biden being the candidate in the same breath as Trump... that's a bit disproporationate?

Eh? Maybe. 2020 Dem primaries showed us a decent number of good candidates for POTUS.

And Biden defeated them all.

From my limited vantage point downunder (which might distort vision) it looked more like Biden was anointed or crowned rather than defeating his opponents.

Not really. He was a spoiler, for certain. A lot of people saw Hillary as a spoiler.

 

[Patooka]

I will say Biden's age for me means jack shit because he has compensated for it by surrounding himself with people one tenth his age.

He's employing eight year olds???

Having said that, sure Biden's age is fair game for mockery. However, using it as an argument in the context of the 2024 election is just plain retarded considering the options.

 

[Derec]

I will say Biden's age for me means jack shit because he has compensated for it by surrounding himself with people one tenth his age.

He's employing sniffing eight year olds???

FIFY.

 

[lpetrich]

‘I’m still running’: Asa Hutchinson vies for relevance in a Trump-dominated Iowa - The Washington Post - "The former Arkansas governor has carried on with a campaign that has barely registered a blip in the first GOP caucus state"

From  2024 Republican Party presidential debates and forums and  2024 Republican Party presidential primaries

• 2023 Aug 23 Milwaukee WI: DB, CC, RdS, NH, AH, MP, VR, TS
• 2023 Sep 27 Simi Valley CA: DB, CC, RdS, NH, MP, VR, TS
• 2023 Nov 8 Miami FL: CC, RdS, NH, VR, TS
• 2023 Dec 6 Tuscaloosa AL: CC, RdS, NH, VR
• 2024 Jan 10 Des Moines IA: RdS, NH
• 2024 Jan 15 IA caucus
• 2024 Jan 18 Goffstown NH: ?
• 2024 Jan 21 Henniker NH: ?
• 2024 Jan 23 NH primary

 

[Derec]

Having said that, sure Biden's age is fair game for mockery. However, using it as an argument in the context of the 2024 election is just plain retarded considering the options.

I agree, unless The Nikki makes it interesting by winning New Hampshire. Contrary to Don Lemon, she is in prime age to run for president.
Biden should have decided not to seek reelection when there was still time to hold a proper primary. Now we are stuck with him.

Also, The Doctor is being a dick.

 

[Derec]

From my limited vantage point downunder (which might distort vision) it looked more like Biden was anointed or crowned rather than defeating his opponents.

It is not completely distorted. It was a weird primary, made even weirder by the emerging Covid situation, satirized here.

Biden winning was partly the Corrupt Bargain Biden made with Congressman Jim Clyburn. Biden promised him a black woman for SCOTUS seat and he also fucked over Iowa and New Hampshire by making South Carolina go first after 2020. That reshuffle of the primary schedule is bad for the Democratic Party for a number of reasons.
The resulting SC win saved Biden's candidacy from ruin, since he didn't do too well in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. But it wasn't enough.
What really put him ahead was Bernie leading in the polls and other moderate candidates like Mayor Pete or The Klob dropping out to clear the center lane for Biden in order to prevent a Bernie nomination.

So Biden was sort-of coronated. Not from the beginning, like Hillary in 2016, but ahead of Super Tuesday and under pressure to cut off Bernie at the pass.
Biden also benefited from Warren unfairly attacking Mike Bloomberg (who would have made a better president than Biden I think).

 

[lpetrich]

Another one bites the dust.

Christie says Sununu is a 'liar', after suggesting his campaign is on its last breath - 12:10 AM EST Jan 10, 2024
Governor Chris Sununu of New Hampshire: Sununu: Christie's leadership team discussing end of campaign | CNN Politics - 2024 Jan 9

"I would say this, I think members of his leadership team here in New Hampshire are having those discussions with him and that's the right folks to do it there. He has no ground game. He's not even trying, even in the next two or three days, he could be here doing 10 events a day — he's doing like two," Sununu said.

"There's no real emphasis of his own campaign here. He's running out of resources, he's not campaigning in any other state. I think those discussions are happening."

Then CC said "It pains me to say this, but Gov. Sununu is a liar."

Former N.J. governor Chris Christie drops out of 2024 presidential election race - Jan. 10, 2024, 1:50 PM PST / Updated Jan. 10, 2024, 2:44 PM PST - "His departure could make room for Nikki Haley to grow her support in New Hampshire, where Christie had grabbed a slice of anti-Trump Republican voters."

"It’s clear to me tonight that there isn’t a path for me to win the nomination," Christie told voters at an evening event. "Which is why I’m suspending my campaign for president of the United States."

"I want to promise you this," Christie continued. "I’m going to make sure that in no way do I enable Donald Trump to ever be president of the United States again. And that’s more important than my own personal ambition."

Who might his departure help? Nikki Haley? Asa Hutchinson?

Christie was caught on a hot mic before his Wednesday evening event apparently talking about Haley, saying, "She’s going to get smoked — you and I both know it. She’s not up to this." NBC News has reached out to the Christie campaign for comment about Christie's remark.

He earlier took a swipe at Donald Trump:

During the fourth Republican presidential debate in December, Christie criticized Haley, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and businessman Vivek Ramaswamy, saying, “We’ve had these three, acting as if the race is between the four of us. The fifth guy who doesn’t have the guts to show up and stand here.”

“I’m in this race because the truth needs to be spoken. He is unfit,” Christie said, later adding, “there is no bigger issue in this race.”

 

[Shadowy Man]

Then CC said "It pains me to say this, but Gov. Sununu is a liar."

I wonder if he’ll apologize? He seemed to make a big deal in an interview I saw of saying that he does admit when he’s wrong, unlike Trump.

 

[Derec]

It was never supposed to be Joe Biden, it was supposed to be his son Beau Biden, who had a solid pedigree, but cancer killed him.

It really should have been Joe Biden in 2016. He had just been vice president, was four years younger and he is much more likable than Hillary. Joe 2016 would have made Trump a historical footnote.
As far as Beau (aka Joe III), his resume looked good on paper, but he would not have been ready for 2016. Maybe 2024 if he ran for Governor in 2018 first.

And yes, Biden is hardly the first, second, or third choice. Of course, of Biden and Trump, complaining about Biden being the candidate in the same breath as Trump... that's a bit disproporationate?

They are both too old. Whichever one wins, chances are non-negligible that he would not serve his whole term.

 

[Derec]

Under your current two party system, yes, it actually does. Whether you understand it or not.
Unfortunately the only forseeable possibility of change to that system in the near future, is if Trump succeeds in his next attempt to overthrow it.

No it doesn't. One can not support a candidate and still vote for him or her as "the lesser (we)evil". Or one lives in a non-battleground state and the result is de facto a foregone conclusion.

 

[Derec]

I thought it was: “decry the proliferation of second-rate doctorates,,,“

I meant in general. Unlike in other countries, first ladies (or hypothetically first gentlemen) become part of the campaign for some reason. People don't care who Olaf Scholz or Rishi Sunak are married to, but care a lot about US first ladies.

I don’t remember anyone mocking Melania about her educational accomplishments, or lack thereof.

There was a lot of mocking of her intellect at least.

Most of the chatter about Melania was on the right commending her for her good looks.

And on the left there was much derision.

 

[Derec]

I'll take a nurse with an MSN or a Phd over most MDs when it comes to primary care/internal medicine.

The breath and depth or training are simply much bigger with MDs (or DOs) compared with nurses. It's not even close.
Nurses, nurse practitioners and physician assistants have their place in the healthcare system, but as supporting cast, not as independent providers. Unfortunately, many states have granted these "noctors" right to practice independently, to the detriment of patients.

They are usually much better at looking at the entire scope of what's going on with their patients compared to most MDs, who simply focus in on one or two symptoms without considering other factors.

[citation needed]
I have seen cases where noctors miss diagnoses because of their limited training.
When Your Doctor Isn’t a Doctor

Once Jeremy moved past his outrage, he noticed something unusual on the bill. The medical professional listed as treating Betty was Madeline Broemsen, P.N.P.-P.C. What’s that? Jeremy thought. He knew that physicians have a designation of M.D. (doctor of medicine) or D.O. (doctor of osteopathy). But a P.N.P.-P.C. is something else entirely. Jeremy looked into it. More than one month after Betty died, the Wattenbargers learned that she had not been evaluated by a physician.
The woman with the stethoscope in the office? That was Madeline Broemsen, a nurse practitioner.

Broemsen missed the child's pneumonia and sepsis, leading to her death the next day.

Nobody is confused as to whether one is an MD or a APRN with a Phd. People choose whether they want an APRN or an MD to give them care, based on their preferences.

Are they? When NPs use the title "Dr." or when states foolishly give them ability to practice independently, confusion can ensue. Esp. when a clinic does not have actual physicians on staff.

Again, you seem to be insulting those who work in female dominated professions like nursing and or education,

No, I am not. I am pointing out that certain degrees are inferior, even if they are called "doctorates". A DNP is far inferior to MD or DO, regardless of gender. There are plenty of female physicians these days - it is not the 1950s!
Likewise, a PhD is superior to an EdD.

yet you claim not to be sexist.

I am not. My argument was gender invariant.

Sometimes people are not aware of their biases. I admit that based on my 42 years of working as an RN, I do have a strong bias in favor of APRNs and if necessary, female MDs.

I would take an MD over APRN any day to diagnose me. As I said, nurses and nurse practitioners are valuable members of a medical team, but they should not practice independently because of less training in medicine they receive.
And why preference for female MDs over male physicians? It seems you are the sexist one!

Still, it might be good if we did away with all of these professional titles. I read that a lot of patients are starting to refer to their doctors by their first names and the docs don't like that. Poor, little babies.

Titles are important as they denote the level of training somebody has. Besides ...

When they all come to terms with the fact that they aren't that special, maybe Dr. Jill will decide to drop her title too.

My point is that there is big difference between different doctorates. Even outside medicine, a PhD in say physics is a lot different than an EdD.

it does seem a bit pretentious to me to demand everyone to refer to them as doctors.

There is a difference between a professional setting and a social one.

I think it may cause a barrier when it comes to communication. My best teachers in college wanted us to call them by their first names. Lawyers all have doctorate degrees, but I've yet to meet one yet that insists on being referred to as Dr..

I think it's tradition. They still have their professional titles like "esquire", which has its roots in the equestrian class of Ancient Rome. News media also usually refer to some lawyer as "Attorney such and such" and not "Mr. such and such".

I've always wondered why. Maybe they have the right idea. But, we are so far off topic now......

Yes, we are. Although the issue of independent practice for noctors is a political topic.

Trump's approval rating was 29% at the end of his term. Considering how divided the country has become, it's amazing that any politician has an approval rating over 35 or 40. Actually, I'm not sure if any of them do.

Both these men have low approval ratings, but according to recent polls, Trump's is a hair better. But another issue of relevance to Biden's 2024 candidacy is his poor performance in the polls. Most nationwide polls have him trailing or even. That is concerning - given the structural advantage Republicans have in the Electoral College, the Dem candidate needs a 2-3 percentage points advantage in the national popular vote at least.

And, I don't understand how any atheist could support a Republican at this point in time, considering they are hoping and planning to have a theocratic form of government.

Some of their religious-based policies are indeed concerning, but "theorcratic form of government" is overselling it. Dems are harping on religion themselves too.

 

[Derec]

I am annoyed by your consistent use of Republican partisan tropes and baseless smears to attack Biden, but nothing even close to it for Republicans, including Donald Trump.

What "Republican partisan tropes"? I am an independent moderate, and as such am opposed to bases of both parties. The reason I argue more against Democrats on here is simply the makeup of the forum - it skews heavily to the left.

Nobody is arguing that everything Biden does is good,

You say that, and yet I am attacked I write anything critical of Biden by certain posters on here.

or anything Trump does is bad, but the two men are hardly comparable, if you are actually keeping scores.

I know. That's why I voted for Biden in 2020.

It's one thing to criticize Biden. Most of us who support his presidential bid oppose some of his policies and have actually criticized his behavior.

So why am I attacked for doing the same? Is it because "most of [you" are criticizing him from the left, not from the middle?

Donald Trump would never get my vote, so it pains me a lot more that he is going to be the likely Republican nominee. He represents an existential threat to our democracy and our rule of law.

Maybe you can switch over in the primaries and vote for Nikki Haley?