This week in patriarchy: Ukraine expels women and children so men can have combat to themselves

[laughing dog]

I must say, it took you awhile to drag out your bs pedantic defenses. You made a statement about Ukraine that you admit is false. The fact one of your "satires" failed again reflects more on your "satire" than on your audience.

A while? Forgive me for sleeping at night. Yes, I made multiple screamingly obvious ironic statements about Ukraine, that only autistic-spectrum readers and those with English reading comprehension problems coupled with deliberate obtuseness would fail to understand.

My satire did not fail. I do not measure the success of my satire by how many deliberately obtuse people claim to have mistaken it for literal claims.

Your "satire" failed on many levels. BTW, I was commending you for withholding your flailing pedantry.

In your world, laughing dog, pedantry is using the meaning of words correctly.

As usual, you are mistaken.

Which is not what a pedant is, but then you'll accuse me of being a pedant about the word 'pedant'.

Unsurprisingly, you are mistaken.

How about we return to the alleged point of your "satire"? Apparently it was not about expelling women and children or the particular circumstance of a trans person. Allegedly, the point of your "satire" is the immorality of conscription, even in the face of invasion from hostile forces. Is that correct?

 

[Elixir]

Not using the word 'troll' doesn't mean you are not calling me a troll

Your not spelling out plainly that you are not calling me a

Show

(I dare not say it!)

is highly offensive and if you don't do it again I might not report you to yourself as the responsible party!
Important stuff.
It's your OP, Meta. Your thread, your fixation and for all I care you can make all the rules.

 

[ZiprHead]

The question is why you don't say anything about Russia and attack Ukraine.

At some point, the letters "NWRT" come to mind.

Yeah, I should have known better. It's pretty obvious this OP came from under a bridge.

You are calling me a troll, which is, as I understand it, against forum rules.

Non. I don't see the word troll anywhere in my post.

You are calling me a troll. That is what your 'under the bridge' reference means, unless you are perhaps calling me Pennywise the Clown from Stephen King's IT or claiming the genesis of my OP was a Red Hot Chili Peppers song. Not using the word 'troll' doesn't mean you are not calling me a troll, and whether you use the term or not, I am not making OPs that I don't believe in merely to shit-stir.

Those are all possibilities. I'm sure there are more possibilities but I refuse to explain them.

Of course you refuse.

Yup, just like you in the mall fight thread.

 

[steve_bank]

Male Ukraine citizens aged 18-60 have been forbidden from leaving Ukraine. Particular details and exceptions are noted here. I understand that this is in order to benefit men, who wanted a break from the women and children and were excited about cosplaying army to a really realistic level.

And so it stands to reason that CBS would spotlight one particular man who identifies as a woman, who cannot leave the country because his passport says 'male'. Oddly, though, Faámelu speaks as though his transness is the barrier and not his maleness:

"This is not a very rainbow-friendly place. ... Lives for trans people are very bleak here," Faámelu said. "If you have a male gender in your passport, they will not let you go abroad. They will not let you through."

While it's true that anyone with a 'male' gender on their passport won't be let out, that's because Ukraine isn't letting males 18-60 out of the country.

The headline here is not that half the country is being forbidden to leave on the basis of their sex, no, but that one man who identifies as a woman is somehow more especially hard done by when the same rule applies to him.

In the face of a cultural and national extinction, destruction, humanitarian crisis, and subjugation to a dictator I'd say this OP is risiculous.

Typical progressive shallow clap trap.

absurd or nonsensical talk or ideas.
"such sentiments are just pious claptrap

So when ta ship is sinking it should not have been women and children first into lifeboats. The lifeboats should be filled acodIrng to percentages of passengers by gendet, race, and sexual orientation? There ought to be a law!!!

 

[Toni]

Me? I'm old and out of shape but I know enough chemistry to do some damage. I'd stay. But that's me.

Love that for you.

Do you think the State should prevent men from leaving, though?

During an invasion by Russia? I do think that they have a valid reason to keep able bodied adultsin the country to fight. Why men instead of women? First of all, a lot of women are staying ( or returning) to fight. So are men returning to fight. At the same time is a massive attempt to evacuate children, elderly, those unable to fight effectively. Someone, one of the pate ts, should accompany the children and other vulnerable people. Women may be pregnant, recovering from childbirth, nursing, etc. in other words more physically in need of support. I did not know Ukrainian culture so I cannot say that children are usually cared for by mothers/other women compared with their fathers, other men. So whether the old stereotype of children needing their mothers more than their fathers ( in this special situation) hold true or not, I cannot say.

I do absolutely understand that in such an emergency, one makes rules with broad strokes. there is no time to set up a mechanism for physical/mental fitness, conscientious objectors, etc. I would assume that they would send through any individual who obviously had a disqualifying disability.

I am opposed to the draft—except in some emergencies. This seems like one of those emergencies.

 

[Metaphor]

How about we return to the alleged point of your "satire"? Apparently it was not about expelling women and children or the particular circumstance of a trans person. Allegedly, the point of your "satire" is the immorality of conscription, even in the face of invasion from hostile forces. Is that correct?

It was definitely not about expelling women and children, which is not happening in the Ukraine.

It is not about the particular circumstances of a trans person, though there was commentary on the focus of that particular article, which glossed over the situation that applies to tens of millions of men in the Ukraine to spotlight that this is somehow more burdensome on a particular trans woman, who is being kept inside the Ukraine because of his being male just like the other tens of millions of males.

Yes, I believe that conscription is immoral, even in the face of invasion from hostile forces. I did not used to feel that way 15 or 20 years ago but I changed my mind.

 

[laughing dog]

Yes, I believe that conscription is immoral, even in the face of invasion from hostile forces. I did not used to feel that way 15 or 20 years ago but I changed my mind.

Unlike the incredibly inept and ambiguous OP, that is a clear statement. Why not try clarity instead of inept "satire" to make a point?

BTW, in your OP link, there is no definite conscription of men between 18-60. The article says "could be conscripted". Do you or anyone lese have evidence that men in that age range are conscripted?

 

[Metaphor]

Yup, just like you in the mall fight thread.

I didn't accuse anybody of being a troll in that thread. But, let's play your analogy out.

Mall fight thread:
Me: The actions shown in the video are consistent with a number of scenarios, including racism.
You: What scenarios other than racism is it consistent with?
Me: I am not going to discuss scenarios with people who have already signalled they intend to mock and ridicule any non-racism scenario.
You: It is obviously racism and your 'consistent with' is obvious bullshit.

This thread:
You: Calling an OP from 'under the bridge' is consistent with calling you a troll, but it is also consistent with other scenarios.
Me: Oh yes, what other scenarios?
You: I'm not going to discuss it, nor what I really meant by 'under the bridge', even though I am the one who made the 'under the bridge' statement.

 

[Metaphor]

Unlike the incredibly inept and ambiguous OP, that is a clear statement. Why not try clarity instead of inept "satire" to make a point?

I explained the process that led to my OP. You can make OPs in your own fashion. I disagree that it was either inept or ambiguous.

BTW, in your OP link, there is no definite conscription of men between 18-60. The article says "could be conscripted". Do you or anyone lese have evidence that men in that age range are conscripted?

I did not say they were conscripted. I said they were forbidden from leaving. They are forbidden from leaving because they are of conscription age and traditional conscription sex.

 

[Emily Lake]

Would you mind explaining "expels"?

Humor? Satire? Sarcastic twist on the situation?

 

[ZiprHead]

Would you mind explaining "expels"?

Humor? Satire? Sarcastic twist on the situation?

You forgot the best word. Bullshit.

 

[Emily Lake]

IIDB is so fucking weird.

I saw that article yesterday elsewhere, and I gave a bit of side-eye to CNN for misplaced priorities. I mean, you've got thousands and thousands of people fleeing the region, widespread draft, and many deaths... And the focus is that Ukraine isn't alphabet-add-on friendly? Seems... irrelevant to me. But that's my opinion.

On the other hand... seeing so very many skeptical progressives make posts in support of a single-sex draft just so they can try to stick it to Met is really quite entertaining.



The impulse to hate on Met is really, really strong here.

 

[ZiprHead]

On the other hand... seeing so very many skeptical progressives make posts in support of a single-sex draft just so they can try to stick it to Met is really quite entertaining.

Ukraine doesn't have a single sex draft but Russia does.

 

[Metaphor]

On the other hand... seeing so very many skeptical progressives make posts in support of a single-sex draft just so they can try to stick it to Met is really quite entertaining.

Ukraine doesn't have a single sex draft but Russia does.

And yet Ukraine is preventing men from leaving and not women. And it is conscripting men and not women.

Stay hidden or get drafted How the breakaway regions of eastern Ukraine are forcing local men into the military — Meduza

On February 17, the breakaway governments in Ukraine’s Donetsk and Luhansk regions began spreading claims of a massive Ukrainian artillery attack on the territories they control. The leaders of the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk “people’s republics” used these claims not only to evacuate...

meduza.io

Also, being single sex is not the draft's main problem. The main problem with the draft is that it is immoral.

Though now, apparently, the draft is a-okay with progressives. Pravda!

 

[laughing dog]

I explained the process that led to my OP. You can make OPs in your own fashion. I disagree that it was either inept or ambiguous.

You feel its clarity caused all these misunderstandings?

I did not say they were conscripted. I said they were forbidden from leaving. They are forbidden from leaving because they are of conscription age and traditional conscription sex.

So why bring up conscription?

 

[Metaphor]

You feel its clarity caused all these misunderstandings?

You know what I feel, laughing dog?

I feel like when my OP contains the line

I understand that this is in order to benefit men, who wanted a break from the women and children and were excited about cosplaying army to a really realistic level.

to interpret that as a literal claim (among the other "claims"), that you either have to be autistic, have English as a second language, have genuine reading comprehension problems, or have such a ridiculous, instant-trigger hate boner for me and my posts that their mental facilities are genuinely clouded, or have such a ridiculous, instant-trigger hate boner for me and my posts that they claim they don't understand the post and were confused by it.

So why bring up conscription?

Because they are being detained because they are of conscription age and were potential conscripts, and they are indeed being conscripted already.

 

[laughing dog]

You know what I feel, laughing dog?…,,

Applying Occam’s razor, inept “satire” is the better theory consistent with the facts, and it lacks the irony of your theory.

Because they are being detained because they are of conscription age and were potential conscripts, and they are indeed being conscripted already.

Do you have link to support your claim?

 

[Metaphor]

You know what I feel, laughing dog?…,,

Applying Occam’s razor, inept “satire” is the better theory consistent with the facts, and it lacks the irony of your theory.

No, it isn't a better theory.

If you can read the title of the thread and the OP, and come away confused about whether I genuinely believed and was trying to imply that Ukraine was expelling women and children, or that men wanted to cosplay war, the fault lies with your cognition.

Because they are being detained because they are of conscription age and were potential conscripts, and they are indeed being conscripted already.

Do you have link to support your claim?

Yes, I already provided links, in the OP and in post 114.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The headline here is not that half the country is being forbidden to leave on the basis of their sex, no, but that one man who identifies as blah blah blah

So basically people should prioritize coverage of issues properly.

Did I get that right?

Is this part of the satire?

 

[Metaphor]

The headline here is not that half the country is being forbidden to leave on the basis of their sex, no, but that one man who identifies as blah blah blah

So basically people should prioritize coverage of issues properly.

Did I get that right?

Is this part of the satire?

Please do not falsely insert words when you quote me.

No, you didn't get that right. I made a jab at media coverage ignoring and glossing over the detention of millions of men, and talking about it only in the context of a trans woman who was also detained because he too is a man.

I also made a point against how society has and continues to appropriate men's bodies as tools of war.

EDIT: What I didn't expect was people suddenly being a-okay with the draft.