Trump falls!! Hurt too

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I read one article that said he expressed conservative views to a classmate. I read another article where another classmate had been interviewed who said he didn't like Trump or Biden. The way the classmate concluded the shooter didn't like Trump was through inference and I am unsure if the classmate maybe misunderstood sarcasm.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump was shot at.

No question. Shots happened, and the shooter was a MAGAt.
… why?

Is there evidence he was a Trump supporter?

What would constitute evidence?
He was a diehard conservative according to classmates, daddy is a trumpsucker ... I suppose all that could be evidence for or against whatever.

I have not read he was a diehard conservative.

The guy is dead now, so any assertion about his beliefs is speculative for sure. But the guy warn't no dam lib'rul.

I notice no quotes there.

 

[Elixir]

I notice no quotes there.

He is said to have been a taciturn chap.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I read one article that said he expressed conservative views to a classmate. I read another article where another classmate had been interviewed who said he didn't like Trump or Biden.

It is certainly conceivable how a conservative wouldn’t like Trump.

 

[bilby]

Trump was shot at.

No question. Shots happened, <snipped irrelevant assumption>
… why?

Because he had a gun.

What was his motive? We cannot know, but there are lots of non-conspiracy possibilities that are more than sufficient as to render any conspiracy theory unnecessary.

What does any lonely loser want? Respect, fame, notoriety, to stand out from the crowd, to differentiate himself from all the other sad losers.

What motives do assassins through history have? We don't often find out, but we have some data. Political effects are a common, but far from an exclusive, motivation. Perhaps his motivation was religion, or insanity (but I repeat myself).

A grand conspiracy is simply unneeded to explain the event; Maybe the shooter was trying to make Jodie Foster fall in love with him. If John Hinckley had died at the scene of his attempt to kill Reagan, would we ever have guessed his motive?

Nutters do nutty things for nutty reasons. Speculation is all well and good, but the only path to the truth is evidence, and in the absence of evidence, no amount of navel gazing or hypothesizing will ever get us there.

Before we allege conspiracy, we need evidence of a conspiracy. The mere fact of a shooting isn't even close to being enough evidence to make that allegation.

Sometimes the very best answer to a question is "nobody knows". Humans are remarkably adamant in their dislike of that answer, even when it is the only reasonable position to take.

 

[Elixir]

there are lots of non-conspiracy possibilities that are more than sufficient as to render any conspiracy theory unnecessary.

Other than “lone wolf”, EVERY postulate is a CT. I would be interested in hearing some other non-CT possibilities.
I consider LW the most likely truth, but not to any point of certitude.

 

[Elixir]

If John Hinckley had died at the scene of his attempt to kill Reagan, would we ever have guessed his motive?

Yes.

 

[bilby]

there are lots of non-conspiracy possibilities that are more than sufficient as to render any conspiracy theory unnecessary.

Other than “lone wolf”, EVERY postulate is a CT. I would be interested in hearing some other non-CT possibilities.
I consider LW the most likely truth, but not to any point of certitude.

There were no wolves involved.

The number of possible internal motives for a single individual is enormous.

And certitude is not an option:

Sometimes the very best answer to a question is "nobody knows". Humans are remarkably adamant in their dislike of that answer, even when it is the only reasonable position to take.

 

[bilby]

If John Hinckley had died at the scene of his attempt to kill Reagan, would we ever have guessed his motive?

Yes.

I said "guessed", not "read about".

My point was to question whether the motive could have been determined by the methodology on display in this thread - guesswork "supported" by logical inferences from guessed premises and unevidenced assumptions, in the complete absence of any actual evidence.

If Crooks left a written record of his motive, I have not heard about it; If that written record details his involvement in a conspiracy, I would expect it to have made headlines.

 

[Elixir]

My point was to question whether the motive could have been determined by the methodology on display in this thread

In that case, no. Long odds against anyone coming up with “maybe this will cause a movie starlet to fall in love with me” without some kind of clue. Perhaps our current case is of similar nature; maybe some random seeming fantasy of glorification in the eyes of some real or imagined person or people …
In any event I am doubtful that there is actually anything to be learned here; RW weirdness is so detached from reality that up is down, and literally ANYTHING could seem like a rational act to someone in that bubble.

 

[Elixir]

 

[thebeave]

I'm kinda going toward the theory that he was a bit mentally disturbed and just wanted to "be somebody who did something", and wasn't really concerned about who the specific target was. Apparently, he had pictures of both Biden and Trump and other politicians and political events (e.g. DNC) on his phone, which is why no one seems to be able to clearly pinpoint his political affiliation. And when he found out that Trump was going to have a rally in his own town, the decision was made for him on who he was going to get. He lived at home and probably had very little money, so its not likely he could travel cross country and stay in motels for a few days to target a specific person. There was a golden opportunity laid right at his feet and he took it.

 

[Elixir]

Wanted to be someone or “wanted to have been someone”.
Doesn’t appear that he had dinner plans for later that night or any escape plan.

 

[thebeave]

Or “wanted to have been someone”. Doesn’t appear that he had dinner plans for later that night or anything.

I'm sure he knew it was the end, and was probably OK with it, given his depressive state of mind. I think most such killers realize they're is little chance of escaping alive.

 

[Elixir]

I'm sure he knew it was the end

Definitely. So it’s weird that nobody remarked on “the signs” after the fact.

Maybe it’s part of far right kulcher to not talk about such things, no matter what.

 

[thebeave]

I'm sure he knew it was the end

Definitely. So it’s weird that nobody remarked on “the signs” after the fact.

Maybe it’s part of far right kulcher to not talk about such things, no matter what.

kulcher? I actually started to look that word up, until it dawned on me....D'oh!

Like the new avatar. Wonder is a cutie, for sure!

 

[blastula]

A gifted NYT article with details of the security procedures.

A Blind Spot and a Lost Trail: How the Gunman Got So Close to Trump

Even though local police were on the lookout for a suspicious man, critical minutes ticked by, allowing a would-be assassin to slip past, a Times analysis found.

www.nytimes.com

Thought here--I can't picture the Secret Service leaving him up on stage with a suspected sniper about. Thus I strongly suspect he refused to leave because of threats.

Was SS seen talking to him before the shot?

No. The police were looking for a suspicious man with a gun. It was the police that had talked to him earlier.

I asked whether they talked to Trump. Did secret service notify Trump that there was a potential threat before he was shot?

 

[ZiprHead]

I read one article that said he expressed conservative views to a classmate. I read another article where another classmate had been interviewed who said he didn't like Trump or Biden.

The two positions are not counter intuitive.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

One thing that has puzzled me is that several people drew attention to the shooter's presence. I would have thought that they would use their cell phone cameras to record him doing the shooting. Perhaps they did and we haven't heard about it. Strange either way.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]