Trump is not a racist

[laughing dog]

And how do you propose the U.S.A. should determine immigrant IQ's given that you have rejected Masters degrees and Doctorates as a measure?

Skin color?

Well, there is this thing called an IQ test.

Yes, we get it...you don't think people with darker skin color can be as smart as you.

I saw what you did there. LOL

 

[laughing dog]

I’m suggesting that we don’t import low IQ people.

Couple that with we export citizens with low IQ scores, and you got my support. Especially if we don't use credentials or expensive tests, but geographical location as the IQ metric.

 

[RavenSky]

Speaking low IQ, here is Corey Lewandowski trying to defend Trump's words:

In Haiti, the average person's income is $804 a year. In Norway, the average person's income is $97000 a year. Now if those refugees are going to come to the United States, do you want a person who's average income is $800 a year... and they are going to be a contributing member of society? Or do you want a person who is from Norway..."

This is stupid on so many levels

Let's start with the fact that any Norwegian, IF they wanted to come to the United States, would not be a "refugee" :rolleyes"

"Refugee" - a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

Now, that word can and does refer to Haitians; which also explains the income disparity.

Once either group is settled in the United States, though, that wide disparity disappears. The median household income for Norwegians living in the U.S.A. is $67, 403. The median household income for Haitian-Americans is $47,200. For native-born Americans it is $56,500.

So income for Haitians in the US is almost 59 times the average is in Haiti, while Norwegians in the U.S. are earning LESS than their counterparts in Norway? Which ones are the smart ones again?

And note, most of the Haitian refugees are doing this without the educational background and childhood privileges of the Norwegian immigrants or the U.S.-born citizens.

So much for the claim of "merit-based" immigration. We all still know what Trump, Lewandowski and Trump supporters in general are really saying.

 

[RavenSky]

...just 502 out of a population of 5.3 million people [in Norway] moved [to the USA] in 2016, down 59 from the previous year, according to Statistics Norway.

“Of course people from #Norway would love to move to a country where people are far more likely to be shot, live in poverty, get no healthcare because they’re poor, get no paid parental leave or subsidized daycare and see fewer women in political power. #Shithole”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...t-trumps-immigration-offer-idUSKBN1F11QK?il=0

Of those 502, even fewer were seeking citizenship here:

In fiscal year 2016, 1.18 million people became legal permanent residents of the United States, according to data from the Department of Homeland Security. Of these, 362 were born in Norway. That status, which is also known as the “green card,” brings immigrants one step closer to becoming naturalized American citizens. That same year, 753,060 green-card holders became citizens. The number of Norwegians: 93. The number of Norwegians immigrants to the U.S. has steadily declined over the past five decades, according to data from the Migration Policy Institute, which studies global migration trends. In fact, there are fewer Norwegians living in the U.S. than any other major European country.

 

[RavenSky]

Historically:

“Norwegian immigrants did so poorly in the United States that about 70 percent of them returned & stayed in Norway,” Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration-policy analyst with the Cato Institute, wrote Thursday on Twitter. “Return rates are not always a sign of failure but their low wages, despite observable characteristics, and poor 2nd generation assimilation indicate otherwise here.” (You can find the historical data on migrants who returned to their home countries here.)

A 2013 working paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research noted that wages for first- and second-generation Norwegians were lower than any other immigrant group in that period of mass immigration, except those from Portugal.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/01/trump-shithole-norway/550382/

 

[ideologyhunter]

Linguists will appreciate that Trump has given a passe word some currency and popularity. As in:
Nixon - 'expletive deleted'
Carter - 'malaise'
Dukakis - 'gravitas'
Quayle: 'potatos/potatoes'
Clinton: 'Peyronie's disease'
Bush II: 'strategery'
DONALD TRUMP: SHITHOLE!!!!
America's youth can use this word as a passkey into the world of journalism or into fulfilling careers in government. As Trump said, "When I'm President, we'll be saying Shithole again."

 

[scombrid]

That a place is a shithole is a reason not to go TO it, and a reason to want to come FROM it.

There is no particular reason why somebody coming from a shithole would be undesirable; It shows that he has good judgment, in preferring your nation over his shithole; and is a compliment to your nation.

Unless you want your immigrants all to be people of poor judgment, who choose to move from nice places like Norway to shitholes like the USA.

Import the third world become the third world.

The Norwegians that came here back in the 19th century came from a shithole and they were the poop coming out of the shithole. They weren't exactly the cream of the crop. Same is true of my Irish ancestors that came to the US during the famine. The country was a shithole and it didn't send over "its best".

 

[RavenSky]

That a place is a shithole is a reason not to go TO it, and a reason to want to come FROM it.

There is no particular reason why somebody coming from a shithole would be undesirable; It shows that he has good judgment, in preferring your nation over his shithole; and is a compliment to your nation.

Unless you want your immigrants all to be people of poor judgment, who choose to move from nice places like Norway to shitholes like the USA.

Import the third world become the third world.

The Norwegians that came here back in the 19th century came from a shithole and they were the poop coming out of the shithole. They weren't exactly the cream of the crop. Same is true of my Irish ancestors that came to the US during the famine. The country was a shithole and it didn't send over "its best".

I would have to question how anyone is defining "its best". Although the article I posted above indicates that 70% of the Norwegian immigrants between between 1825 and 1925 couldn't make it here, and went back to Norway. That would seem to fit the idea of not "its best" (though I'll bet their descendents are glad, now)

Likewise, what Norwegian would voluntarily leave all of the benefits of Norway today for the USA today? It's best?

Conversely, those coming from "shithole" countries, whether they have money or not, will tend to be that country's "best" in that they managed to leave their home country and make it to the U.S. or other countries.

I suspect, however, that Trumpsters define "best" on the color of one's skin and size of one's bank account which, as if obvious from looking at their Dear Leader, is a deeply deeply flawed measure.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

That a place is a shithole is a reason not to go TO it, and a reason to want to come FROM it.

There is no particular reason why somebody coming from a shithole would be undesirable; It shows that he has good judgment, in preferring your nation over his shithole; and is a compliment to your nation.

Unless you want your immigrants all to be people of poor judgment, who choose to move from nice places like Norway to shitholes like the USA.

Import the third world become the third world.

The Norwegians that came here back in the 19th century came from a shithole and they were the poop coming out of the shithole. They weren't exactly the cream of the crop. Same is true of my Irish ancestors that came to the US during the famine. The country was a shithole and it didn't send over "its best".

Hence some of the "traditional" food here that survives from the old country like klube. If you were better off you made it with lard.

And they came here and took the worst and most dangerous jobs as that was all that was available to them. They were too afraid to unionize unlike other ethnic groups and thus businesses sought them out.

 

[Copernicus]

How can you look at a single beach and decide not 1 person in the whole country is worthy of coming to the US? You just made a bigoted argument based on a hasty generalization fallacy or a stereotype. When people have a problem with you personally because of one hasty argument you made, just remember it's live by the sword die by it. You will have to accept their hasty argument about you or take the high road by stopping making bigoted arguments.

Who created this s^&thole? The people that live there? No. It was created by you ,I and the free market.

I suspect that this one was probably created by a hurricane or tsunami. This picture is being widely circulated in the right wing blogosphere, but I can find no attribution of its origin. It might not even be an image from Haiti, but this is the kind of scene you see in the aftermath of a tsunami or hurricane.

 

[repoman]

A lot of the immigration issue would be different if the amendment giving birthright citizenship to former slaves was explicitly ONLY for them. A well intended amendment with permanent effects

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The thing is, even if we were to agree a particular country is a ‘shithole’, how is that in any way the individuals fault? It is very likely the state of that country is due to factors such as economic exploitation, corruption, and religious/political extremism. Many of the people who are against those people immigrating are the same ones supporting those same factors here, thus they are the ones helping to turn this into a third world country

The biggest factor in making a country a shithole is a fucked-up government.

you pulled that out of your ass. I'll do the same thing. the biggest factor in making a country a shithole are catastrophic events that a single, small govt cannot handle such as aggressive war by a bigger nation, major earthquakes, tsunamis, nuclear fallout, etc.

I pulled it out of my experience. I've been in some pretty shitty places--and in every case it was bad government at fault. None were the victim of any of the factors you list.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

you pulled that out of your ass. I'll do the same thing. the biggest factor in making a country a shithole are catastrophic events that a single, small govt cannot handle such as aggressive war by a bigger nation, major earthquakes, tsunamis, nuclear fallout, etc.

I pulled it out of my experience. I've been in some pretty shitty places--and in every case it was bad government at fault. None were the victim of any of the factors you list.

Your experiences are very limited to the countries you went to and your limited perspective when going there. Yet you made a global statement. I invite you to detach yourself from your biases and instead research the topic objectively.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I suspect that this one was probably created by a hurricane or tsunami.

Oh come on! What a ridiculous suspicion. Clearly, lazy people who want to get rid of garbage instead of throwing it in a trash can or out on the street make the effort to walk all the way to the beach to throw away good clothes, tires, cement blocks, and destroyed boats. Obviously, they also purposely raised the level of water to be higher than the underwater dock to the left of the boy. Plus, they prefer to park their boats on their sides way up on the shore, even if it takes 20 men to lift them and put them on the sand. No wonder Trump doesn't want these people.

Now, based on this small location over a single point in time, it is obvious that the whole country and people must be like this and over all time, too. That's completely rational!

Here's another shithole:

Look how they park their boats!

Finally, take a look at google:
some nice spots in Haiti
Haiti catastrophe
before and after

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Just to add on the off chance that such garbage is deliberate. Can you imagine? You may not know that for 300 years NYC was expanded by garbage. They were not the clean kind of landfills of today. Garbage was deliberately added to shorelines and riverbanks, followed by dirt, rubble and wood. Probably some was not deliberate as they had little other place to put it. When lucky, they'd take an old, irreparable boat fill it with garbage and cover it with dirt which helped to keep it intact. They also had some rule that if you built a house on such structure you then had to expand the shore with more garbage and dirt. NYC was a real cesspool.

Today our methods are different. Because our nation is wealthy and informed, we are privileged enough to afford regulations and better technology to have our system of landfilling be much safer to health and environment than back then. But the destruction of minimum wage, increased economic disparity, and other deregulation could land us back where we were just 100 years ago with all this garbage.

Make America Great Again?

 

[repoman]

I wonder what Trump calls unshelled Brazil nuts.

 

[laughing dog]

You people need to President Trump and his defenders on this issue a break - he (and they) are just calling a spade a spade.

 

[RavenSky]

The African Union, a group representing the continent's countries, and African ambassadors to the United Nations, sharply denounced US President Donald Trump's reference to African nations as "shitholes" and called on him to retract his statement and apologize.

"The African Union Mission wishes to express its infuriation, disappointment and outrage over the unfortunate comment made by Mr. Donald Trump, President of the United States of America, which remarks dishonor the celebrated American creed and respect for diversity and human dignity," the African Union mission to the United States said in a blistering statement.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/12/politics/african-union-demands-trump-apology/index.html

Meanwhile, ambassadors in those countries are being summoned to explain Trump's word

 

[Mumbles]

A lot of the immigration issue would be different if the amendment giving birthright citizenship to former slaves was explicitly ONLY for them. A well intended amendment with permanent effects

I'm going to go right ahead and guess that it would do no such thing - particularly given the right wing's now open hostility towards black and Hispanic Americans (not to mention First Nations people who were here long before the right-wings ancestors showed up).

 

[ronburgundy]

The problem isn't' that he called Haiti a "shithole". Dems need to get off that part of his comment. A country can be a shithole without it meaning that all its people are shitholes. Just like the US can be a non-shithole, despite its president and the 25% of the population that support him being shitholes.

The problem is that he said he does't want anyone from an almost entirely black country and instead wants anyone from the whitest nation on the planet, without any reference to how competent and qualified those individuals actually are. That is the definition of racism. There are most certainly Haitians who are more objectively prepared and willing to contribute positively to the US than many Norwegians, even if the average Norwegian is in a better position to do so than the average Haitian.

Comically, his racist defenders are contrasting Haiti to the Dominican Republic to show what a shithole Haiti is. Then why didn't Trump say he wanted DR immigrants instead. Why did he use the whitest nation in the world. There is only one plausible answer and that is race is a central aspect of what makes Haiti a "shithole" in his mind because he is a racist shithole.