Trump VS COVID-19 Threat

[blastula]

South Korea is denser than the US. Seoul is denser than NYC.

 

[Elixir]

No, it shows that it's not Trump's fault.

What's not his fault? Downplaying the actual threat, failing to heed early warnings, impeding the flow of materiel - all his fault, as are the resulting deaths. Funny you should try to exonerate him, since you are guilty of the same thing, just to a more impotent degree:

My prediction is that by April we will be laughing going,
"Remember how everyone panicked over the coronavirus
because the media started fear mongering?"

Are you laughing yet Halfie? Yeah? Then let me remind you what you posted four short days ago:

This quarantine will work. I guarantee it. April 12 we will be up and running.
The cases are going to start declining in the U.S. starting around the next few days.
By April 1, we will see a steady downstream and be on our way out.

Still planning to go to church on the 12th are you?
That would be incredibly stupid.
Almost as stupid as your refusal to admit that all your blather is bullshit.

New and active cases are still coming in at nearly 20,000 a day. We are 14 days into all the measures that Trump avoided for 2 months, and should see new cases starting to level off soon, but the case load isn't going to stop piling up for weeks. Even Trump is trying to soften the ground to get his moron followers to accept 1-200,000 dead bodies in this round of infections - and with his lack of leadership there will be plenty of subsequent rounds.

One more reason to get the filthy orange liar out of the White House and into prison.

 

[lpetrich]

Yo know why Trump always says, "No one's done more than me" or "no country is better than ours" or "I'm doing the best job of any President?" It's because he has confidence. Confident people talk like that. He's always a businessman. What's the motto of business? Always be selling. Trump is constantly selling our country, himself, his administration, the people of our country, etc. It makes people happy and comforted when they hear stuff like that.

That's beside the point. Sometimes a leader has to break some bad news. It is also good to acknowledge past mistakes, and it's also good to acknowledge one's limitations. That is something called honesty.

Did Franklin Delano Roosevelt claim that Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor was the Republicans' new hoax for unseating him?

No, he hit the nail on the head and declared "Yesterday, December 7, 1941 a date which will live in infamy the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan." - "A Date Which Will Live in Infamy": FDR Asks for a Declaration of War

Did Winston Churchill claim that the evacuation of Dunkirk was the Labour Party's new hoax for unseating him? Did he say that about the Battle of Britain?

Let's see what he said: "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat." and "... we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender." and "Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves, that if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour'."

Angela Merkel's speech seems almost Churchillian, at least to me: Watch Angela Merkel’s Coronavirus Speech - English Subtitles - Kanzlerin Merkel Spricht zu BürgernInnen über das Corona Virus (Englische Untertitel) - YouTube

Boris Johnson showed more honesty than Trump about the virus. He said that things will get worse before they get better. He didn't say that the virus was the Labour Party's new hoax for unseating him.

Trump, however, has been anything but Churchillian, though I wouldn't be surprised if some of his aides have tried to get him to imitate that British prime minister.

No one wants to hear a President say, "Well I guess I'm good but others before me were better." People would hear that and go, "What a spineless weenie."

There is a difference between "I will try to do the best job that I can" and "I am the greatest".

 

[bilby]

The missing six weeks: how Trump failed the biggest test of his life | US news | The Guardian

Starting out that on 2020 Jan 20, two cases of COVID-19 were reported, the first one in the US and the first one in South Korea. Of the two nations, South Korea has come close to stopping any further spread of the disease, while the US still suffers from exponential growth of it.

Trump's narcissism has taken a new twist. And now he has American blood on his hands | Jonathan Freedland | Opinion | The Guardian

Pity the people of America. They do battle now with one of the greatest challenges in their history, led by a man who is not only among the worst ever occupants of the White House but whose character makes him the last person on the face of the Earth you would nominate to be in charge at this moment. On Thursday the US reached the top of the global league table for coronavirus infections, edging ahead of its closest rival for that honour, China. No law of nature dictated that outcome. Much of it is directly attributable to one dreadful fact: that Donald Trump is president of the United States.

It’s become a commonplace to note Trump’s lack of basic human empathy, his tendency to be unmoved by others’ loss. But that gap in his mindset matters now far beyond an inability to offer consolation to the bereaved: it is warping his approach to a lethal disease.

Trump's response would be to say that "nobody's more empathetic than me", I'm sure.

Coronavirus map of the US: latest cases state by state | World news | The Guardian
Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
JH CRC Map
Coronavirus Update (Live): 718,116 Cases and 33,887 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

Yo know why Trump always says, "No one's done more than me" or "no country is better than ours" or "I'm doing the best job of any President?" It's because he has confidence. Confident people talk like that. He's always a businessman. What's the motto of business? Always be selling. Trump is constantly selling our country, himself, his administration, the people of our country, etc. It makes people happy and comforted when they hear stuff like that.

How would you react if someone was selling you something and said, "This product is good but it's not the best. Maybe you shouldn't even buy it. Go with something else. But, you can buy my product if you really want to." It sounds like the person has no confidence, right?

No one wants to hear a President say, "Well I guess I'm good but others before me were better." People would hear that and go, "What a spineless weenie."

Confidence in the absence of ability leads to disaster.

When someone has confidence, but nothing to back it up, someone is going to get hurt.

And, in case you didn't already know it, the word "con" in the phrase "con-man" is short for "confidence". A con-man is a person who gets others to trust and invest in him, by inspiring unjustified confidence in a product, scheme, or idea that is either valueless or nonexistent.

So I agree entirely that your president has confidence. It's pretty much all he has ever had. But it is most assuredly and observably NOT a good thing.

Justified confidence is a good thing. But Trump doesn't have, nor engender, that kind.

 

[bilby]

Yo know why Trump always says, "No one's done more than me" or "no country is better than ours" or "I'm doing the best job of any President?" It's because he has confidence. Confident people talk like that. He's always a businessman. What's the motto of business? Always be selling. Trump is constantly selling our country, himself, his administration, the people of our country, etc. It makes people idiots happy and comforted when they hear stuff like that.

No one wants to hear a President say, "Well I guess I'm good but others before me were better." People would hear that and go, "What a spineless weenie."

FTFY

Childish. It's true. People respond better to people who speak with confidence, not to people who sound like they are second guessing themselves.

This is a common rule of life. Who would you trust more? Someone who says, "Yes, I can do that for you no problem!" or someone who says, "Gee...I don't know...maybe I can do it...*scratches head*....but I'm not completely sure...I guess I can..."

You're asking the wrong question. The right question would be "Who should you trust more?". And that question often has a VERY different answer. To answer my question requires an analysis of the actual ability of the person in question - his level of confidence is assuredly not a good guide to his level of ability. In fact, much research has been done in this area, most famously by Dunning and Kruger, and they observe that confidence is negatively correlated with competence. The more confident someone is, the more likely it is that he simply hasn't fully understood the problem.

Your president exemplifies this observation.

As do you.

 

[bilby]

No, it shows that it's not Trump's fault. If every other country was perfectly fine and the U.S. was the only country with cases, you'd have a point.

I concede to your superior wisdom on how accountability works. If someone does a shittier job than you, then you are completely off the hook when you fuck up. I had no idea that's how real life works.

Yup. If you rob a bank, the judge will let you walk as long as you can point out that someone else robbed more banks, or stole more money in bank robberies.

The courts will just be all like "oh, well, other people have committed worse crimes. You're free to go".

 

[fromderinside]

So who's up for going kitten grabbing.

 

[bilby]

Looking at the Spain, Italy, and US numbers, I ponder if there are metrics that are not being taken into account, such as the population of each nation. But on the other hand, there is also the population density as well. Italy's population density is more than 5 times that of the Continental US. Italy is more densely populated than the NE United States! So maybe the numbers are even worse than the appear for the US.

Comparisons between nations, or even between states, hospital districts, or individual physicians, should always be treated with caution.

To an uninformed observer, it might appear simple to just record all the people who test positive for Covid-19, and report that as the number of cases; And equally simple to record and report the number of deths from Covid-19. But in fact it's not simple at all.

For a start, different regions have different testing regimes, and different levels of access to testing. A country that tries to mass test all citizens is likely to report a far higher rate than one where tests are reserved for known contacts of other positive patients.

As to deaths, what is a Covid-19 death? If a patient with a history of heart disease presents at ER in cardiac arrest, and dies - and the post mortem finds Covid-19 in his system, is he a Covid victim? That depends what country you are in; And how pedantic the coroner is about the rules for reporting cause of death. Some places require that one cause of death per patient is recorded; Others that all of the detected possible causes be listed and reported. And what if our patient doesn't have a heart attack, but has a stroke, due to hypertension directly associated with his Covid-19 infection? What if he had hypertension in his medical history - was the Covid-19 an additional factor, or a direct cause, or unrelated to his demise? Ultimately, it's down to the opinion of the doctor who completes the death certificate, and his decisions will be dependent to some degree on his own opinions on how to record cause of death; And on the guidelines and advice from his hospital, health authorities (state, federal, local, etc.), professional colleagues, and perhaps even the media.

It's a complex and difficult situation, and you should expect different ways of reporting the same data in different hospitals - and certainly in different nations.

 

[angelo]

I think Pelosi is standing in criticizing the president because poor Biden just isn't getting his message through.

He's been mostly absent through this debacle, and when he finally surfaces, he takes all those rumors of cognitive decline and add credence to them.

Now he has started the slow drip of more sexual accusers as well. This is exactly why is said he can't beat Trump. He's going to get annilated if there's a debate. This is all going to continue. The only way I can see Trump getting bested is that Trump beats himself by doing such a poor job fighting this pandemic. Which he unfortunately WILL do, because he's incapable of being halfway competent.

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Even if you're correct about Trump's incompetent. Think how much more worse a Biden, or Zoroaster forbid, a Sanders presidency would be.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think Pelosi is standing in criticizing the president because poor Biden just isn't getting his message through.

He's been mostly absent through this debacle, and when he finally surfaces, he takes all those rumors of cognitive decline and add credence to them.

Now he has started the slow drip of more sexual accusers as well. This is exactly why is said he can't beat Trump. He's going to get annilated if there's a debate. This is all going to continue. The only way I can see Trump getting bested is that Trump beats himself by doing such a poor job fighting this pandemic. Which he unfortunately WILL do, because he's incapable of being halfway competent.

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Even if you're correct about Trump's incompetent. Think how much more worse a Biden, or Zoroaster forbid, a Sanders presidency would be.

I'm pretty certain a ham sandwich would have done better, as it wouldn't have the ability to get in the way. Sen. Cruz, Sen. Kasich, Sec. Clinton, Sen. Sanders... all of them would have held country first. Trump is pretty much the first President to make a crisis all about himself and how unfair it is. That is the mindset of a clinical narcissist.

 

[lpetrich]

The Coronavirus Isn’t Just A Blue State Problem | FiveThirtyEight - it's growing fast in a lot of red states and purple states.
Americans’ Views On The Coronavirus Are Shifting Fast | FiveThirtyEight -- to greater and greater concern about it.
Americans Are Worried About The Coronavirus. They’re Even More Worried About The Economy. | FiveThirtyEight
The dawning of America's 'Post-Pandemic Age' | TheHill

Politics Podcast: COVID-19 Has Started A New Economic Era | FiveThirtyEight

How Coronavirus Tests Actually Work | FiveThirtyEight - they involve testing for similarity to known virus gene sequences

Good riddance to that ill-conceived proposal:
Trump shifts, says distancing to go to April 30 | TheHill
Fauci says April 30 extension is 'a wise and prudent decision' | TheHill

Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) – the data - Our World in Data - very detailed, has several graphs as a function of time for different nations. Could use US states, Canadian provinces, and other subdivisions of nations.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 735,796 Cases and 34,843 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

 

[lpetrich]

The COVID Tracking Project - Homepage

Trump accuses New York hospitals of ‘hoarding’ masks and ventilators without evidence – Raw Story

Speaking in the Rose Garden Sunday, Trump asked, “How do you go from 10 to 20 to 300,000 masks? Where are the masks going, are they going out the backdoor?”

Indeed, the masks are going in the trash after they’re used. The masks are one-use masks, which Trump said he wants to be able to sanitize them so people can reuse them.

“They have to look into that in New York,” Trump said, noting that he heard they went from 10,000 masks to 300,000 masks.

“I’m I don’t think it’s hoarding, it’s maybe worse than hoarding,” Trump said.

WATCH: Trump snaps at Black reporters calling them ‘you people’ during Rose Garden press conference – Raw Story

Yamiche Alcindor asked the president about his earlier accusations that masks were “going out the back door” and said that it was “worst than hoarding.” She specifically cited his comments on Sean Hannity where he attacked blue-state governors, saying that if they’re not nice to them he won’t return their calls.

“That’s why you used to work for the Times and now you work for somebody else,” Trump attacked Alcindor for asking the question.

“Why don’t you people act a little more positive? Don’t be threatening. Be nice,” he told the reporters.

Fact check: A breakdown of false and misleading statements at Trump's Rose Garden briefing
Apart from what was previously mentioned,

Trump said, "I'll never forget the day when a general came and said, 'Sir' -- my first week in office -- 'we have no ammunition.' " He repeated this claim later in the briefing without citing the general, claiming that the US had "no ammunition" before he had taken action.

Facts First: Trump was exaggerating. We don't know what a general might have told him in private, but it's not true that the US had "no ammunition" at the beginning of his presidency.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

“I kept asking and we did models,” Trump said Sunday night. “Now, finally, we got these models in and you hear about the 2.2 million people [who] would have died. I don’t mean we would have had 2.2 million cases. These are 2.2 million people [who] would have died.”

He [Trump] added: “And so, if we could hold that down, as we’re saying, to 100,000 — it’s a horrible number, maybe even less, but to 100,000, so we have between 100 [thousand] and 200,000 — we altogether have done a very good job.”

link

Yeah, Mr. Open By Easter apparently sees things a bit differently now. I mean, we should be happy he didn't encourage people to go to church or something, but we are talking about a real low bar for Trump that he is still stumbling to jump over.

 

[lpetrich]

Trump Said He Was the President of Manufacturing. Then Disaster Struck. - The New York Times - "For a leader who has embraced the language of a wartime president, it is as if the Pentagon asked for missiles and bombers but wouldn’t say how many or where they should be delivered."

Mr. Trump came to this crisis belatedly, but once he did he has tried to portray himself as a wartime president, one who is making use of all of America’s talents to fight an invisible but devastating enemy. And in that regard, the best analogy may be Franklin D. Roosevelt’s “arsenal of democracy,” the phrase he used in a Dec. 29, 1940, fireside chat, as he tried to get American industry to support Britain in its fight with Nazi Germany, without getting the United States into the war.

It turned out to be prescient, because industry was already getting onto a wartime footing by the time Japan attacked Pearl Harbor a year later, plunging the United States into a manufacturing frenzy. That is when Ford began churning out B-24 bombers and Sherman tanks.

But in this case, Mr. Trump sought the language of wartime action without the responsibility for making it happen. He welcomed voluntary efforts that were already underway, as manufacturers like Medtronic and the Dutch manufacturing giant Philips promised to ramp up production. The problem was that it was uncoordinated — as if the Pentagon had announced it needed more missiles, more artillery shells and more nuclear weapons but left unclear how many or where they should be delivered.

He's no FDR and he's no Winston Churchill.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump Said He Was the President of Manufacturing. Then Disaster Struck. - The New York Times - "For a leader who has embraced the language of a wartime president, it is as if the Pentagon asked for missiles and bombers but wouldn’t say how many or where they should be delivered."

Mr. Trump came to this crisis belatedly, but once he did he has tried to portray himself as a wartime president, one who is making use of all of America’s talents to fight an invisible but devastating enemy. And in that regard, the best analogy may be Franklin D. Roosevelt’s “arsenal of democracy,” the phrase he used in a Dec. 29, 1940, fireside chat, as he tried to get American industry to support Britain in its fight with Nazi Germany, without getting the United States into the war.

It turned out to be prescient, because industry was already getting onto a wartime footing by the time Japan attacked Pearl Harbor a year later, plunging the United States into a manufacturing frenzy. That is when Ford began churning out B-24 bombers and Sherman tanks.

But in this case, Mr. Trump sought the language of wartime action without the responsibility for making it happen. He welcomed voluntary efforts that were already underway, as manufacturers like Medtronic and the Dutch manufacturing giant Philips promised to ramp up production. The problem was that it was uncoordinated — as if the Pentagon had announced it needed more missiles, more artillery shells and more nuclear weapons but left unclear how many or where they should be delivered.

He's no FDR and he's no Winston Churchill.

He's no Jame Buchanan!

 

[lpetrich]

Nearly a Dozen Liberty University Students Sick With Coronavirus Symptoms After Falwell Reopened Campus

Katie Hill on Twitter: "We’ve all been eating a lot of pasta these days & taking it for granted.
But 1.5 million New Yorkers depend on food banks for pasta, which are going to shut down soon w/o emergency funding.
NY residents- call your state legislators so seniors can eat during this crisis. https://t.co/H7FiSycb5w" / Twitter
noting
David G. Greenfield - STAY HOME! on Twitter: "Imagine if you called 911 and an ambulance didn’t show up. That is what’s happening to seniors and their emergency food pantries. https://t.co/aJ7JiWOgYO" / Twitter

Katie Hill on Twitter: "Watching @NYGovCuomo tell me about making spaghetti and meatballs that no one would eat makes me just like him more" / Twitter

Katie Hill on Twitter: "Also someone made a powerpoint slide for him that said find the joy and look for the “silver lining” and I just want to know who that poor bastard was and why they meant by those quotation marks" / Twitter

Chad Pergram on Twitter: "Graham on Fox on Pelosi: She’s blaming the President of the United States for people dying because of the way he's led the country. That's the most shameful, disgusting statement by any politician in modern history." / Twitter
then
Katie Hill on Twitter: "How can it be shameful to state a fact?
A lot of people have died because of Trump’s “leadership” and more will.
Stfu @LindseyGrahamSC you’re only melting down bc you know it’s true
(wrong tag first time I tweeted this) https://t.co/55ZkVqkWcU" / Twitter

I agree. Trump's "leadership" is awful. He'll go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever.

 

[braces_for_impact]

I think Pelosi is standing in criticizing the president because poor Biden just isn't getting his message through.

He's been mostly absent through this debacle, and when he finally surfaces, he takes all those rumors of cognitive decline and add credence to them.

Now he has started the slow drip of more sexual accusers as well. This is exactly why is said he can't beat Trump. He's going to get annilated if there's a debate. This is all going to continue. The only way I can see Trump getting bested is that Trump beats himself by doing such a poor job fighting this pandemic. Which he unfortunately WILL do, because he's incapable of being halfway competent.

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Even if you're correct about Trump's incompetent. Think how much more worse a Biden, or Zoroaster forbid, a Sanders presidency would be.

How so? Trump's major reason for incompetency is obvious. He is viewing the entire situation through the lens of re-election and how this will all affect HIM. His narcisism. Combine this with a profound lack of mental ability, incredible lack of any intellectual curiosity, and complete lack of empathy, and we have a deadly mix. Add to this the lack of expertise and experience present in his administration and that's a recipe for disaster. It's a fucking clown show.

Any of the recent contenders could do better. Yes, some wouldn't be ideal, but they would still be better. Perhaps most of them would at least bother to use the pandemic playbook given to them for just such a situation.

https://politi.co/33XahUi

Frankly, I'm embarrassed for anyone trying to defend this at this point. Did you watch yesterday's clusterfuck? I watched it live as Trump accused hospitals and states of hoarding and selling supplies because the required amount of ventilators and PPE has gone up dramatically suddenly - in the middle of a pandemic. The quiet in the room is palpable as everyone sits there virtually stunned at how STUPID this man truly is. Yet here he is, leading this effort. Trump is the driver of a bus, blindfolded and smoking a cigarette bragging about how he's "the best driver, driving very strongly" while heading straight for a cliff. Meanwhile the passengers all see the impending doom and are sitting there wondering how to get his dumb ass out of the driver's seat.

So your best argument is he's still better than anyone else? Weak. So very, very weak. So weak it makes me wonder what is going on in your own mind - what motivates you to say such a dumb thing in an attempt to salvage this man? Why do you throw away every piece of common sense and completely ignore WHAT YOU KNOW TO BE TRUE? What makes someone do that? What is so important to you within this man that you would embarrass yourself and toss away any shred of dignity and intellectual credibility?

I take all knowledge to be my province.
-Sir Francis Bacon

 

[funinspace]

Nearly a Dozen Liberty University Students Sick With Coronavirus Symptoms After Falwell Reopened Campus

Ah, Falwell must be one of those dozens of '1 or 2 fringe churches'...

Along with a few other nutters:
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/26/th...nce-is-definitely-going-to-get-people-killed/

To be clear, Christian right leaders aren't denying that coronavirus is a real problem (at least not anymore). If anything, the bevy of snake oil salesman who call themselves ministers sees the panic around the virus as a marketing opportunity to make money from selling dangerous supplements, to declare the virus can be beaten with the power of prayer and to declare that the pandemic is a divine punishment inflicted on sinners.

<Roy Moore>"I am writing a letter to pastors on the duty to continue church assemblies, even in the midst of these trying times," Moore wrote in an open letter, adding on Twitter that "churches are closed by tyrants who pander fear in the place of faith in God."

<snip>
David Green, the owner of Hobby Lobby, is keeping most of his stores open during the pandemic, except those actually forced to shut down by local governments.

His reason? His wife, Barbara Green, prayed about it and decided to focus instead on "profound words to remind us that He's in control."
<snip>
Trump himself has surrounded himself with a phalanx of Christian right pastors who are eager to lie to their flocks about what a great leader he is and to amplify his relentless drumbeat of lies and misinformation. This includes Dave Kubal, the head of Intercessors for America, who told an audience on a prayer call last week that coronavirus "testing has limited value."

 

[lpetrich]

Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "Because the “Ratings” of my News Conferences etc. are so high, “Bachelor finale, Monday Night Football type numbers” according to the @nytimes, the Lamestream Media is going CRAZY. “Trump is reaching too many people, we must stop him.” said one lunatic. See you at 5:00 P.M.!" / Twitter
Yet more megalomania.

Katie Hill on Twitter: ".@realDonaldTrump... this isn’t a reality show. Fuck your ratings.
People are tuning in because they are scared and want information and leadership during a global crisis.
Why can’t you understand that? https://t.co/R2qi1EEDt0" / Twitter
Good response to his megalomania.

Katie Hill on Twitter: "Oh my God he just laid into a reporter, a woman, and told her to be nice and to not be threatening.
The way she stuck with it and pushed him to answer was so fucking impressive and I need to know who she is." / Twitter
then
Katie Hill on Twitter: "@yamiche - you’re a badass. Thank you for your service." / Twitter
then
Katie Hill on Twitter: "And apologies for not recognizing you. I have no excuse." / Twitter

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

South Korea is denser than the US. Seoul is denser than NYC.

And nothing is more dense than the White House.