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Trump VS COVID-19 Threat

Jokodo said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Half-Life said:
We're being told that the hospitals are only for corona now. So, what happened to all the people who need life saving surgeries and can't get them, then? Souldn't the deaths be skyrocketing due to those?
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No. We are being told that most of the cases that come in are Covid-19. The number of trauma admits are way down because people aren't doing the things that tend to lead to trauma admits. New York has a couple hundred people a day dying at home--10x normal.
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Oh, you can get a trauma admission from things you do in your own home. Especially if people who are no craftspeople whatsoever take their first go at home improvement during the lockdown.
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Voice of experience? (JK but genuinely sorry if you really did hurt yourself)
 
Jokodo said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Half-Life said:
We're being told that the hospitals are only for corona now. So, what happened to all the people who need life saving surgeries and can't get them, then? Souldn't the deaths be skyrocketing due to those?
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No. We are being told that most of the cases that come in are Covid-19. The number of trauma admits are way down because people aren't doing the things that tend to lead to trauma admits. New York has a couple hundred people a day dying at home--10x normal.
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Oh, you can get a trauma admission from things you do in your own home. Especially if people who are no craftspeople whatsoever take their first go at home improvement during the lockdown.
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You can but it's not nearly as likely.
 
He Could Have Seen What Was Coming: Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus - The New York Times - "An examination reveals the president was warned about the potential for a pandemic but that internal divisions, lack of planning and his faith in his own instincts led to a halting response."
“Any way you cut it, this is going to be bad,” a senior medical adviser at the Department of Veterans Affairs, Dr. Carter Mecher, wrote on the night of Jan. 28, in an email to a group of public health experts scattered around the government and universities. “The projected size of the outbreak already seems hard to believe.”

...
“You guys made fun of me screaming to close the schools,” he wrote to the group, which called itself “Red Dawn,” an inside joke based on the 1984 movie about a band of Americans trying to save the country after a foreign invasion. “Now I’m screaming, close the colleges and universities.”
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The main points:
  • The National Security Council office responsible for tracking pandemics received intelligence reports in early January predicting the spread of the virus to the United States, and within weeks was raising options like keeping Americans home from work and shutting down cities the size of Chicago. Mr. Trump would avoid such steps until March.
  • Despite Mr. Trump’s denial weeks later, he was told at the time about a Jan. 29 memo produced by his trade adviser, Peter Navarro, laying out in striking detail the potential risks of a coronavirus pandemic: as many as half a million deaths and trillions of dollars in economic losses.
  • The health and human services secretary, Alex M. Azar II, directly warned Mr. Trump of the possibility of a pandemic during a call on Jan. 30, the second warning he delivered to the president about the virus in two weeks. The president, who was on Air Force One while traveling for appearances in the Midwest, responded that Mr. Azar was being alarmist.
  • Mr. Azar publicly announced in February that the government was establishing a “surveillance” system in five American cities to measure the spread of the virus and enable experts to project the next hot spots. It was delayed for weeks. The slow start of that plan, on top of the well-documented failures to develop the nation’s testing capacity, left administration officials with almost no insight into how rapidly the virus was spreading. “We were flying the plane with no instruments,” one official said.
  • By the third week in February, the administration’s top public health experts concluded they should recommend to Mr. Trump a new approach that would include warning the American people of the risks and urging steps like social distancing and staying home from work. But the White House focused instead on messaging and crucial additional weeks went by before their views were reluctantly accepted by the president — time when the virus spread largely unimpeded.
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There were also squabbles about what to do about China, with hardliners wanting to cut off travel from there but not being very welling to cooperate on this disease.

Trump's early dismissiveness has already cost thousands of lives.

Graham says 'the whole world should send China a bill' over Beijing's response to coronavirus | Fox News
That's Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
"If it were up to me, the whole world should send China a bill for the pandemic," Graham said. "This is the third pandemic to come out of China and they come from these wet markets where they have bats and monkeys with the virus -- carrying the virus -- intermingled with the food supply. Yeah, I'd make China pay big time."
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He also likes the idea of forcing China to forgive US debt to that nation.
 
Jokodo said:
angelo said:
Some facts and fake news in this link......................................https://www.npr.org/2020/04/04/8269...ight-in-another-week-of-trump-and-coronavirus
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Which part if that article do you believe supports your contention that Trump handled the crisis better than other works leaders, or that right wing governments have overall done a better job than left wing ones?
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A stark contrast would be the left government of Sweden's handling of the pandemic and Trump's! Google their death rate as compared to per capita to other EU nations.
 
Widespread and effective provision of government services seems to work for South Korea.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/11/south-korea-beating-coronavirus-citizens-state-testing

Indeed, it seems that one major difference between the US and SK is that in SK the government is genuinely concerned that it's citizens will overthrow them if they don't deliver. The US government is happy to let its citizens have guns, because they know that they will never get their shit together and revolt. Indeed, most who might contemplate revolt are labouring under the misapprehension that they already did that, so they don't need to do it again.
 
If Trump were Captain of Titanic:

"There isn't any iceberg.”

“There was an iceberg but it's in a totally different ocean.”

“The iceberg is in this ocean but it will melt very soon.”

“There’s only one little iceberg. I’m not worried about it.”

“There is an iceberg but we didn't hit the iceberg.”

“We hit the iceberg, but the damage will be repaired very shortly.”

“The iceberg is a Chinese iceberg.”

“The Chinese Ice isn’t something that we could have planned for.”

“There’s nothing wrong with calling it Chinese Ice. I’ve heard a lot of experts, the best experts really, call it Chinese Ice.”

“We are taking on water but every passenger who wants a lifeboat can get a lifeboat, and they are beautiful lifeboats.”

“Look, passengers need to ask nicely for the lifeboats if they want them.”

“We don't have any lifeboats, we're not lifeboat distributors.”

“Passengers should have planned for icebergs and brought their own lifeboats.”

“I really don't think we need that many lifeboats.”

“The ship has lifeboats and they're supposed to be our lifeboats, not the passengers' lifeboats.”

“I take no responsibility for getting underway without enough lifeboats.”

“The lifeboats were left on shore by the last captain of this ship. Nobody could have foreseen the iceberg."
 
Lauren Ashcraft for NY-12🌹 on Twitter: "Think about the fact that ICE has all the funding it needs to keep terrorizing people during #COVID19, while the USPS is struggling to survive." / Twitter

Bianna Golodryga on Twitter: "
This image.
This quote.
“One of the reasons the pandemic is hitting the country so hard is that no one appears to be able to hold the President back from his whims. He has systematically removed independent thinkers and experts from the WH and the govt.” https://t.co/nFYMGUCIbH" / Twitter

Penny Dunster EdD on Twitter: "@biannagolodryga @gtconway3d
There has never been a president with less self-discipline.
There has never been a president with poorer judgement.
There has never been a president with crueler intent.
Pity poor America.
And #VoteBlue" / Twitter

🌹Shahid Buttar for Congress on Twitter: "“[T]he absence of...affordable US healthcare...cut-throat contest between American states for scarce medical supplies...[and] death toll among ethnic minorities...are reminiscent of a poor, developing country, not the most powerful...nation on earth.” https://t.co/OxahhhehAp" / Twitter
noting
US's global reputation hits rock-bottom over Trump's coronavirus response | US news | The Guardian - "International relations expert warns policy failure could do lasting damage as president insults allies and undermines alliances"
Donald Trump’s response to the coronavirus pandemic, which he once dismissed as a hoax, has been fiercely criticised at home as woefully inadequate to the point of irresponsibility.

Yet also thanks largely to Trump, a parallel disaster is unfolding across the world: the ruination of America’s reputation as a safe, trustworthy, competent international leader and partner.

...
This adverse shift could be permanent, Walt warned. Since taking office in 2017, Trump has insulted America’s friends, undermined multilateral alliances and chosen confrontation over cooperation. Sanctions, embargoes and boycotts aimed at China, Iran and Europe have been globally divisive.

...
Erratic behaviour, tolerated in the past, is now seen as downright dangerous. It’s long been plain, at least to many in Europe, that Trump could not be trusted. Now he is seen as a threat. It is not just about failed leadership. It’s about openly hostile, reckless actions.

...
US reputational damage is not confined to Europe. There was dismay among the G7 countries that a joint statement on tackling the pandemic could not be agreed because Trump insisted on calling it the “Wuhan virus” – his crude way of pinning sole blame on China.

...
Trump has ignored impassioned calls to create a Covid-19 global taskforce or coalition. He appears oblivious to the catastrophe bearing down on millions of people in the developing world.

...
Trump’s surreal televised Covid-19 briefings are further undermining respect for US leadership. Trump regularly propagates false or misleading information, bets on hunches, argues with reporters and contradicts scientific and medical experts.

While publicly rejecting foreign help, Trump has privately asked European and Asian allies for aid – even those, such as South Korea, that he previously berated. And he continues to smear the World Health Organization in a transparent quest for scapegoats.

...
To a watching world, the absence of a fair, affordable US healthcare system, the cut-throat contest between American states for scarce medical supplies, the disproportionate death toll among ethnic minorities, chaotic social distancing rules, and a lack of centralised coordination are reminiscent of a poor, developing country, not the most powerful, influential nation on earth.
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The ‘Red Dawn’ Emails: 8 Key Exchanges on the Faltering Response to the Coronavirus - The New York Times
Experts inside and outside the government identified the threat early on and sought to raise alarms even as President Trump was moving slowly. Read some of what they had to say among themselves at critical moments.

...
Red Dawn — a nod to the 1984 film with Patrick Swayze and Charlie Sheen — was the nickname for the email chain they built. Different threads in the chain were named Red Dawn Breaking, Red Dawn Rising, Red Dawn Breaking Bad and, as the situation grew more dire, Red Dawn Raging. It was hosted by the chief medical officer at the Department of Homeland Security, Dr. Duane C. Caneva, starting in January with a small core of medical experts and friends that gradually grew to dozens.

The “Red Dawn String,” Dr. Caneva said, was intended “to provide thoughts, concerns, raise issues, share information across various colleagues responding to Covid-19,” including medical experts and doctors from the Health and Human Services Department, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Homeland Security Department, the Veterans Affairs Department, the Pentagon and other federal agencies tracking the historic health emergency.
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Some highlights:

A Veterans Affairs official worried in January that the W.H.O. and C.D.C. were slow to address the spread of the virus.

A former Bush and Obama adviser compared the outbreak to major disasters in world history.

James V. Lawler:
Great Understatements in History:
Napoleon's retreat from Moscow - "just a little stroll gone bad"
Pompeii - "a bit of a dust storm"
Hiroshima - "a bad summer heat wave"
AND
Wuhan - "just a bad flu season"
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Experts worried that it would be hard to convince society to order restrictions like school and business closures to slow the spread.

The Diamond Princess was an early case study of how quickly the virus could spread.

Eva K Lee compared the Diamond Princess to a shopping mall, a school, and office space

February was a tipping point for some experts.

After finding out how fast the virus was spreading.

A former high-ranking Trump official weighed in with criticisms.

When Mr. Trump gave a speech to the nation on March 11 in which he announced limits on flights from Europe to the United States — but still no move to curb gatherings in cities where the virus had spread — the experts on the email chain grew angry and fearful.
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Including that official, Tom Bossaert.

Participants were angry the C.D.C. did not push for school closures.

The NYT has over 80 pages of e-mails on thus subject.
 
Patooka said:
Half-Life said:
The fear mongering explanation seems to be the best explanation available right now.

Sure, the virus is real, but the fear mongering around it seems very fishy. Hospitals are not chaotic warzones like the media says. Thus, they lied. Why? To spread fear. Just like when CBS was caught using Italy's hospitals and said it was a NYC hospital to spread fear. When caught they said, "Opps! Just a mistake!" Yeah, a big mistake alright. Makes you wonder how much else they lie about without being caught.

It sounds much worse to say "Hospitals are chaotic warzones!!!" than it is to say, "Hospitals are pretty much quiet these days." Gets the people all riled up into a frenzy when the media goes bonkers.
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Can you elaborate on what you mean by fear mongering. I wasn't being clear in my question, that's my fault. What do you think is motivating Hospitals looking empty.

Just to clarify, this is the explanation that makes the most sense to me. We are currently in a pandemic where the virus in question is extremely pervasive. Hospitals are shutting down all non essential procedures to reduce unnecessary exposure. This makes sense from a medical perspective and a financial perspective as the threat of receiving a lawsuit from a member of the general public being infected with this whilst going in for elective surgery is a distinct possibility. This also explains why the parts of the hospital accessible to the general public are empty right now. It's all about removing unnecessary risk from a medical, legal and financial viewpoint.

What's the explanation that makes the most sense to you?
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Well, it appears governor Cuomo was lying about his need for ventilators for one thing. For a while, he was whining to Trump about how he needs more and now he's basically saying he doesn't need them anymore. This is what Trump was saying all along. He doesn't need them.

But, if hospitals are ghost towns these days, why is the media even reporting a shortage? They should have all necessary equipment in abundance. Hospital workers and staff are being laid off due to lack of work as well.

Something sure is fishy about this. Is the virus real? Sure. Is the panic and fear mongering about us needing to wear masks everywhere we go and wash our hands non-stop necessary? Very very doubtful.

If grocery stores, convenience stores, gas stations, walmart etc. can figure out how to remain open during this "shutdown," then surely other places can open with the same restrictions as well. Going to 711 at 2am for a bag of doritos and a bottle of soda is not necessary, yet people do it with no problems. If this was a real problem, ALL STORES would close between 10pm and midnight and reopen in the morning. But keeping stores open 24 hours such as 711 is stupid if this is really a pandemic. But, if it's mostly fear mongering, then I can see why 711 would remain open for 24 hours. Because there's no problems. Even the McDonald's by my neighborhood is still open 24 hours. People really need a big mac and soda at 2am? Cmon, this is getting ridiculous. Why do you think restaurants and bars are complaining about the stores that are allowed to stay open 24 hours but they can't be open?

The people at grocery stores wear gloves but they handle the cash register/money with the same gloves that they use to pick up your items and scan them. The gloves are useless then! Pretty dumb if you ask me if this was a real pandemic.
 
Half-Life said:
...
The people at grocery stores wear gloves but they handle the cash register/money with the same gloves that they use to pick up your items and scan them. The gloves are useless then! Pretty dumb if you ask me if this was a real pandemic.
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The rest of what you said is mindless drivel but if you're really wondering why cashiers wear gloves it's for their own protection. Having to constantly wash your hands as is recommended and use alcohol based hand sanitizer your hands get dried out and cracked very quickly. Gloves not only protect your hands but can be disinfected more thoroughly. When I go to the store I wear a mask to protect other people and gloves to protect myself. I don't take them off until I get in the car and spray everything down with 70% alcohol. When I go to the mailbox or bring a package in from UPS I do the same. If I were you I wouldn't rely on other people to keep me safe unless I didn't have a problem with spending a couple weeks in an ICU with a plastic tube stuck down my throat.
 
Half-Life said:
Well, it appears governor Cuomo was lying about his need for ventilators for one thing. For a while, he was whining to Trump about how he needs more and now he's basically saying he doesn't need them anymore. This is what Trump was saying all along. He doesn't need them.
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Nope.

"These hospitals are accustomed to having a one-month to two-month stockpile. They are now looking at several days of stockpile. So, they are all uncomfortable, but we only have several days for any hospital. And we do have several days for every hospital, and we do have a supply that's coming in. So, compared to how we have been operating on this new dire circumstances, we are relatively comfortable with ventilators and PPE."

Cuomo said the situation could change if hospitalization rates were to spike again. The hospitalization rate for the city has been leveling off and starting to decline for the past several days. Cuomo noted that he speaks with hospitals every day and takes reports on their stockpile to ensure that each one has enough equipment.
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"We are fine right now is a statement that should be taken very literally in a pandemic. You fail at comprehension yet again.

But, if hospitals are ghost towns these days, why is the media even reporting a shortage? They should have all necessary equipment in abundance. Hospital workers and staff are being laid off due to lack of work as well.
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Yeah, because hospital can convert ultrasounds and MRIs into respirators in a jiffy.

I'm sure dialysis machines could do the trick as well. There's a switch on the back that makes these machines change their function right? As for people being laid off:

1)cite?
2)Even if true (doubtful), I suspect the people being laid off are not trained in the proper techniques procedures observed during a pandemic. And contrary to what some morons believe, that kind of stuff requires more than a 2 hour day seminar.

If grocery stores, convenience stores, gas stations, walmart etc. can figure out how to remain open during this "shutdown," then surely other places can open with the same restrictions as well. Going to 711 at 2am for a bag of doritos and a bottle of soda is not necessary, yet people do it with no problems. If this was a real problem, ALL STORES would close between 10pm and midnight and reopen in the morning. But keeping stores open 24 hours such as 711 is stupid if this is really a pandemic. But, if it's mostly fear mongering, then I can see why 711 would remain open for 24 hours. Because there's no problems. Even the McDonald's by my neighborhood is still open 24 hours. People really need a big mac and soda at 2am? Cmon, this is getting ridiculous. Why do you think restaurants and bars are complaining about the stores that are allowed to stay open 24 hours but they can't be open?

The people at grocery stores wear gloves but they handle the cash register/money with the same gloves that they use to pick up your items and scan them. The gloves are useless then! Pretty dumb if you ask me if this was a real pandemic.
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You know, all your bullshit conspiracy theories and infantile innuendo can be explained if you listen to medical professionals instead of failed casino owners.

Something sure is fishy about this. Is the virus real? Sure. Is the panic and fear mongering about us needing to wear masks everywhere we go and wash our hands non-stop necessary? Very very doubtful
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Please enlighten me. What is the motive behind this conspiracy? What is the endgame? Also, how the fuck did they convince medical experts throughout the entire world to recommend the exact same course of action? This I would really like you to explain to me.
 
Opinion | Jobs Aren’t Being Destroyed This Fast Elsewhere. Why Is That? - The New York Times - "It’s not too late to start protecting employment or to make medical care for Covid-19 free."
This dramatic spike in jobless claims is an American peculiarity. In almost no other country are jobs being destroyed so fast. Why? Because throughout the world, governments are protecting employment. Workers keep their jobs, even in industries that are shut down. The government covers most of their wage through direct payments to employers. Wages are, in effect, socialized for the duration of the crisis.

Instead of safeguarding employment, America is relying on beefed-up unemployment benefits to shield laid-off workers from economic hardship. To give just one example, in both the United States and Britain, the government is asking restaurant workers to stay home. But in Britain, workers are receiving 80 percent of their pay (up to £2,500 a month, or $3,125) and are guaranteed to get their job back once the shutdown is over. In America, the workers are laid off; they must then file for unemployment insurance and wait for the economy to start up again before they can apply for a new job, and if all goes well, sign a new contract and resume working.
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Not just the UK, but also Ireland, Denmark, and Germany.
One option involves continuing to be covered by one’s former employer, a program known as COBRA. It is prohibitively expensive: Participants have to bear the full cost of insurance, $20,500 per year on average. Another option is to go shopping for a plan on the Affordable Care Act insurance exchange, where one is faced with a bewildering choice between plans like Blue Shield’s Bronze 60 PPO (with a deductible of up to $12,600 per year) and Aetna’s Silver Copay HNOnly (with a $7,000 deductible and up to $14,000 in annual out-of-pocket expenses). The last option is to join the ranks of the uninsured, a catastrophic solution during a pandemic. There are reports that people have already died of Covid-19 because they refused to go to the hospital, worried about bills, or because they were denied treatment for lack of insurance.
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I like what AOC once tweeted:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Also, pretty sure one Dante’s Circles of Hell includes scrolling through a mirror-hall of agonizingly similar healthcare plans like “UHG Choice Master HMO 1800” vs “RedGo Option Plus EPO 2000.”
I don’t know one normal person in this country that actually enjoys open enrollment." / Twitter
from 2018 Dec 2
 
Coronavirus: Fauci says signs outbreak slowing, US could start reopening in May
  • White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci expressed “cautious optimism” that the deadly coronavirus outbreak is slowing down in the United States.
  • Fauci said that parts of the country may start to reopen as soon as May.
  • While the country won’t suddenly turn back on like a “light switch,” there are “indications” that some of the metrics used to gauge the crisis “are starting to level off” in some areas, Fauci said.
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Dr. Anthony Fauci Says U.S. 'Obviously' Could Have Saved Lives by Starting Coronavirus Mitigation Earlier
Dr. Anthony Fauci, the top infectious disease expert on the White House Coronavirus Task Force, said that the U.S. "obviously" could have saved lives if social distancing measures and other mitigation strategies had been implemented sooner.

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"Often the recommendation is taken. Sometimes it's not. But it is what it is. We are where we are right now," he said.

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The top health official tried to deflect criticism of the administration, suggesting that hindsight always makes the correct choice more clear.
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That's no excuse for monstrous negligence.

Trump Lashes Out at Fauci Amid Criticism of Slow Virus Response - The New York Times - "The president retweeted a post calling for the government’s top infectious disease specialist to be fired after the doctor acknowledged that shutting down the country earlier could have saved lives."

DeAnna Lorraine 🇺🇸 on Twitter: "Fauci is now saying that had Trump listened to the medical experts earlier he could've saved more lives.
Fauci was telling people on February 29th that there was nothing to worry about and it posed no threat to the US public at large.
Time to #FireFauci..." / Twitter
then
Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "Sorry Fake News, it’s all on tape. I banned China long before people spoke up. Thank you @OANN https://t.co/d40JQkUZg5" / Twitter
 
While the anti Trumpsters and the leftist media are trying to pin the tragedy unfolding in the US on him, the real culprits are either deliberately or ignorantly [at best] silent on who is really to blame.

There is authoritative and compelling evidence — including a study from the University of Southampton — that if interventions in China had been conducted three weeks earlier, transmission of COVID-19 could have been reduced by 95 percent.

For 40 days, President Xi Jinping’s CPC concealed, destroyed, falsified, and fabricated information about the rampant spread of COVID-19 through its state-sanctioned massive surveillance and suppression of data; its misrepresentation of information; its silencing and criminalizing of its dissent; and its disappearance of its whistleblowers.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/crimi...king-news-2020-04-12-2281527&utm_medium=email
 
angelo said:
While the anti Trumpsters and the leftist media are trying to pin the tragedy unfolding in the US on him, the real culprits are either deliberately or ignorantly [at best] silent on who is really to blame.

There is authoritative and compelling evidence — including a study from the University of Southampton — that if interventions in China had been conducted three weeks earlier, transmission of COVID-19 could have been reduced by 95 percent.

For 40 days, President Xi Jinping’s CPC concealed, destroyed, falsified, and fabricated information about the rampant spread of COVID-19 through its state-sanctioned massive surveillance and suppression of data; its misrepresentation of information; its silencing and criminalizing of its dissent; and its disappearance of its whistleblowers.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/crimi...king-news-2020-04-12-2281527&utm_medium=email
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Sure, but when we can’t depend on the President of China to protect the American people, our backup has to be the President of the United States. Wouldn’t you agree?
 
TV and credit cards said:
angelo said:
While the anti Trumpsters and the leftist media are trying to pin the tragedy unfolding in the US on him, the real culprits are either deliberately or ignorantly [at best] silent on who is really to blame.

There is authoritative and compelling evidence — including a study from the University of Southampton — that if interventions in China had been conducted three weeks earlier, transmission of COVID-19 could have been reduced by 95 percent.

For 40 days, President Xi Jinping’s CPC concealed, destroyed, falsified, and fabricated information about the rampant spread of COVID-19 through its state-sanctioned massive surveillance and suppression of data; its misrepresentation of information; its silencing and criminalizing of its dissent; and its disappearance of its whistleblowers.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/crimi...king-news-2020-04-12-2281527&utm_medium=email
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Sure, but when we can’t depend on the President of China to protect the American people, our backup has to be the President of the United States. Wouldn’t you agree?
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Trump's failure is okay because China failed first. This garbage from the same people that though the 2016 economy was worse than the 2008 economy.
 
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