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Trump Will Likely Win

If that sounds impossible to achieve, just look at the leaked tax returns of the wealthiest Americans that nonprofit news site ProPublica analyzed in 2021: Over several years, billionaires Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Michael Bloomberg, among others, paid no federal income taxes at all.
But in other years, they paid billions in tax.

Cite? Did you notice the "Over SEVERAL years"?

If that sounds impossible to achieve, just look at the leaked tax returns of the wealthiest Americans that nonprofit news site ProPublica analyzed in 2021: Over several years, billionaires Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Michael Bloomberg, among others, paid no federal income taxes at all.
Misleading since they paid billions in other years.

Echo chamber?

And Derec gives further proof that the Ilk regards "factual and truthful" as a synonym of "far left":
According to Kim's own source, itself the far lefty Pro Publica:

"Far lefty"? I suppose that in your dialect, that means they're more rational than Marjorie Taylor Greene. 8-)
Pro Publica has won seven Pulitzers. How many Pulitzers has your Fair and Balanced™ team won?
Wikipedia said:
The Sandlers hired Paul Steiger, former managing editor of The Wall Street Journal, to create and run the organization [Pro Publica] as editor in chief.
Oh. Well I guess you're correct then. The ProPublica Executive Chairman used to work for that Marxist rag, only good as a sausage wrapper, the WSJ.
Pro Publica said:
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows.
So 25 super-rich DID pay 3.4% of their gains in taxes, which is more than Zero. But the claim you seem to think this contradicts was NOT about all 25. It was about THREE named billionaires and "several others."
Trying to rescue someone who has willfully immersed themself in a cesspool of lies and is already inhaling gray water, is a fool’s errand. At some point you just have to acknowledge that they have made their choices, and have only themself to blame.

ETA: 3.4% is slightly less than the 10-12% I pay on every goddam penny I earn. But I guess they deserve a break, being self appointed “job creators” and professional tax cheats.
 
Re: Bezos and WP lack of endorsement. I suspect it has to do with KH proposing a tax on unrealized capital gains for the wealthy, along with the usual Democrat billionaire bashing rhetoric. Why would Bezos want to endorse someone who is out to significantly cut his wealth? Reminds me of the "Chickens for KFC" joke.
Then why bother calling it the Washington Post, as if there is any shred of journalistic integrity left in it (which there isn't)? It should be called the Bezos Post.
I'm cracking up here at Colonel Sanders chiming in on my post about KFC. Promise not to sue me for unlicensed use of your brand name? ;)

At any rate, Bezos can do what he wants, he bought the WP. Its not a matter of journalistic integrity, as an endorsement is merely an opinion not a fact based news item. And he's not endorsing Trump, he's decling to provide any endorsement.
 
Whatever their reasons are, they're a craven, contemptuous, useless group of unethical shits.
Apparently it was just Bezos; the editorial board wrote an endorsement for Harris but Bezos vetoed it.
Is there a credible source for this?


CNN's Erin Burnett speaks with ex-Washington Post editor-at-large Robert Kagan, who resigned from the paper after publisher Will Lewis announced the paper would not endorse a candidate in the 2024 presidential election.
 
If that sounds impossible to achieve, just look at the leaked tax returns of the wealthiest Americans that nonprofit news site ProPublica analyzed in 2021: Over several years, billionaires Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Michael Bloomberg, among others, paid no federal income taxes at all.
But in other years, they paid billions in tax.
Cite? Did you notice the "Over SEVERAL years"?

...

And Derec gives further proof that the Ilk regards "factual and truthful" as a synonym of "far left":
According to Kim's own source, itself the far lefty Pro Publica:

"Far lefty"? I suppose that in your dialect, that means they're more rational than Marjorie Taylor Greene. 8-)
Pro Publica has won seven Pulitzers. How many Pulitzers has your Fair and Balanced™ team won?
Wikipedia said:
The Sandlers hired Paul Steiger, former managing editor of The Wall Street Journal, to create and run the organization [Pro Publica] as editor in chief.
Oh. Well I guess you're correct then. The ProPublica Executive Chairman used to work for that Marxist rag, only good as a sausage wrapper, the WSJ.
Pro Publica said:
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows.
So 25 super-rich DID pay 3.4% of their gains in taxes, which is more than Zero. But the claim you seem to think this contradicts was NOT about all 25. It was about THREE named billionaires and "several others."

Two points regarding this final paragraph:
(1) It was written by Swammi as shown here, not by Derec as the earlier post incorrectly showed.
(2) 3.4% is a low net tax rate, because unrealized gains are NOT taxed. However, as previous threads have pointed out, billionaires can often "realize" their unrealized gains by simply borrowing from banks and using the shares as collateral. IOW, Musk can SPEND many billions tax-free, by simply letting his estate, upon his death, give his Tesla stock to the lenders.
 
he's not endorsing Trump, he's decling to provide any endorsement.

Intentionally or not, he is sending a message of ambivalence, ostensibly offered by “the voice of the left”.

“The left” is not ambivalent about an outright fascist taking control if the US government. Sure, it’s Jeff’s ball and he can take it home if he wants.
One more example of reasons the very existence of multi multi billionaires is a BAD thing for America.
 
... if indeed it was Bezos' call, then they should've gone on strike or even outright resigned. One could argue that it's easy to say that from afar, but again, by passively accepting Bezos' decree, they don't deserve to be called professionals.
I think they should recognise that by blocking the publication of the editorial endorsing Harris, Bezos has made it news; And that while Bezos, as owner, may justly influence editorial content, he should not influence the news content of his papers.

So they should print a news article something like this:

Editorial staff in dispute with owner

The long tradition of this newspaper endorsing a candidate in each Presidential election has been disrupted this year, as a dispute has arisen with the owner over the propsal by the editorial staff to endorse Democratic candidate Kamala Harris. The proposed editorial, now withdrawn, read: "<full text of endorsement>", but as the owner, Jeff Bezos, has instructed that it cannot be printed, you will find a different article in today's editorial pages
 
he's not endorsing Trump, he's decling to provide any endorsement.

Intentionally or not, he is sending a message of ambivalence, ostensibly offered by “the voice of the left”.

“The left” is not ambivalent about an outright fascist taking control if the US government. Sure, it’s Jeff’s ball and he can take it home if he wants.
One more example of reasons the very existence of multi multi billionaires is a BAD thing for America.

.I think its all your fault, pal. He was probably casually perusing this forum on his yacht one day while his plastic-surgery-gone-amok wife was tanning her fake boobs, when he saw your post and thought, "WTF?...I'll show those liberal bastards a thing or two!"
 
he's not endorsing Trump, he's decling to provide any endorsement.

Intentionally or not, he is sending a message of ambivalence, ostensibly offered by “the voice of the left”.

“The left” is not ambivalent about an outright fascist taking control if the US government. Sure, it’s Jeff’s ball and he can take it home if he wants.
One more example of reasons the very existence of multi multi billionaires is a BAD thing for America.

.I think its all your fault, pal. He was probably casually perusing this forum on his yacht one day while his plastic-surgery-gone-amok wife was tanning her fake boobs, when he saw your post and thought, "WTF?...I'll show those liberal bastards a thing or two!"
I know you (think you) are joking.
But I wonder, honestly.
 
A slight boost for Trump in Michigan;

Donald Trump appeared on stage with a local Imam and an Arab-American mayor at his rally in suburban Detroit, and said the influential group of voters they represent could tip the election his way. 'I’m thrilled to accept the endorsement of these highly respected leaders,' Trump said, as he brought on stage Imam Belal Alzuhairi. Also speaking was Bill Bazzi, the the Mayor of Dearborn Heights, who was born in Lebanon.

'We, as Muslims, stand with President Trump because he promises peace, not war,' Alzuhairi told the crowd of a few thousand, who cheered loudly.

Daily Mail
 
Stuart Stevens says it’s over. Harris won. In a landslide.
He makes some very good points, but I can’t shake the feeling that he’s wrong.
 
A slight boost for Trump in Michigan;

Donald Trump appeared on stage with a local Imam and an Arab-American mayor at his rally in suburban Detroit, and said the influential group of voters they represent could tip the election his way. 'I’m thrilled to accept the endorsement of these highly respected leaders,' Trump said, as he brought on stage Imam Belal Alzuhairi. Also speaking was Bill Bazzi, the the Mayor of Dearborn Heights, who was born in Lebanon.

'We, as Muslims, stand with President Trump because he promises peace, not war,' Alzuhairi told the crowd of a few thousand, who cheered loudly.

Daily Mail
Are they aware that Trump promised to keep out Muslim immigrants? Moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem?

Who promised to build a Wall across the US border with Mexico and Mexico would pay for it?
Seriously?
Tom
 
Derec, I detailed exactly how and why two cities in Michigan came to be predominately Arab/Muslim and you insist on saying that they are Islamic colonies. Doubled down on it, in fact.
How they came to be Islamic colonies is secondary to the fact that in the present they are just that. Let me post the video of people in Dearbornistan chanting "death to America" and praising Ayatollah Khomeini again.

Here’s the great thing about the US: It is not supposed to matter what, if any religion one follows: you are equally American if you are Catholic or Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Lutheran or whatever, including atheist
In theory, yes. In practice, Islamism is antithetical to western societies. Just look at Germany and the demands that it be turned into a Caliphate.
Radical Islamists gather in Hamburg to call for caliphate

And you have not comment on the issue of Michigan Arabs/Muslims possibly swinging the state to Trump. Have you dropped that particular objection, and are now solely focusing how I choose to characterize islamicized towns such as Dearborn and Hamtramck?
 
Are they aware that Trump promised to keep out Muslim immigrants? Moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem?

Who promised to build a Wall across the US border with Mexico and Mexico would pay for it?
Seriously?
Tom
Also, I heard Lindsay Graham say on TV that he thought Biden/Harris were “holding Israel
back”. So it’s utterly crazy for any Muslims to think Trump will be a better option for them.
 
I am not a cis white male but I sure am related to a whole lot of them and AFAIK none of them feel attacked as oppressors.
I guess you have not been to college in a while.
My guess is you have ‘t been
either. I am there Monday though Friday, and as a cis white male and as one who listens to his students, few, if any, express feelings of feel oppression.
 
What I think is interesting about all the protests where rioting took place is that it happened so much under Trump.
The Left was angry at Trump, which fueled their violence.
In envisioning a scenario where Trump does indeed do what he's promising to do, violent response is inevitable.
Violence is not a solution to fighting a democratically elected president you happen not to like.
I do not like Trump either, but this is not the way.
MAGA engaging in violence to "protest" President Harris would be just as wrong as Antifa engaging in violence to "protest" President Trump 2: Electric Boogaloo.
If Trump can recruit the military and police to wreak terror on American citizens, what else could one of the expected responses be?
Who is wreaking terror? If certain American citizens decide to vandalize and burn down businesses and government buildings in 2020-like riots, police should certainly engage with them. If things are bad enough, national guard can get involved too.
And this applies whether it is MAGA or Antifa that is wreaking terror on American cities.
A second and quite likely possibility is that Trump could form his own version of Brownshirts.
The paramilitary organ of the Nazis were the Brownshirts. The paramilitary organ of the German Communist Party were the Antifaschistische Aktion, or "Antifa" for short. And they are still using the same logo:
antifaschistische-aktion2.jpg

History shows that passive acceptance of tyranny is a far worse option than armed resistance.
So you advocate violence to overturn an election? Duly noted.
 
First, I do admire you, Derec is that a]you recognize that Trump is not a true conservative, and won’t vote for him. I know several other conservatives who will not support him.
I won't vote for him and have voted zero times for him before. But I am not a conservative. Most of my positions are liberal - I support right to choose, legalization of weed, gay marriage and trans rights (as long as reasonable, I have an issue with some of things activists demand). I go even further than the left on personal freedoms, as I think consensual sex work should be 100% legal, something most leftists oppose. I also support progressive taxation and reasonable gun laws.
But I also think Democratic Party has lurched too far left in recent years, that immigration should be well-regulated and subject to limits, that confiscatory taxes are wrong, and that so-called "assault weapons" should not be banned. That gets me labeled "conservative", or even worse, 'trumpsucker" on here. :rolleyesa: :banghead:
But to your point. You are correct that Muslims in Michigan could possibly skew the vote away from Harris, either by not voting at all, voting for third party, and maybe a few voting for Trump even.
Thank you! I do not know why Toni is so resistant to the idea.
In fact, I have pointed out that one of the reasons for the original attack on Israel last year was to provoke this reaction and that it would divide the West’s left. And indeed that has worked. Russia blessed this attack before it happened. They want to see Trump elected. They know that will make America much weaker.
You are probably right. Although the bigger part of their calculus was to drive a wedge between Israel and Arab counties, esp. Saudi Arabia. There has been some rapprochement between them due among other things to the Abraham Accords. I do not like Trump, but not everything his administration did was wrong.
As for violence, while I expect protests against Trump (and there should be), I do not expect out and out violence against the government the way we saw on January 6th. I don’t expect an out right coup attempt. That is what I do expect from Trump and his supporters. I do expect them to react explicitly violently. I actually expect a pseudo civil war.
I disagree here. 2020 has shown that the modern Left is more than willing to engage in widespread political violence. And lefty DAs have shown unwilling to prosecute them to the full extent of the law.
 
So you advocate violence to overturn an election?
It's the whole purpose of democracy to make the violent deposing of an unpopular leader unnecessary.

It does this by presenting the leader (and the country) with the fact that a majority of the people want him gone; The idea being that if he doesn't go, they could bring violence to bear successfully, because they outnumber his supporters.

If an election fails to indicate that the people have the numbers to successfully depose their leader, or if the leader ignores that indication and takes (or keeps) power anyway, then democracy has failed, and violence is indeed appropriate.

An election is a threat display. It is an attempt to avoid violence, by showing all parties that a conflict will have a particular outcome, and giving the inevitable losers the opportunity to back down peacefully.

The use of violence to overturn an election wherein the victor was the less popular candidate is perfectly in accord with the fundamental principle of democracy, which has as it's objective the removal of violence as the sole option for replacing an unpopular leader.

That violence can be avoided through voting does not imply that it always will or must be. Democracy doesn't take violent revolution off the table (only authoritarian oppression of the people can do that, and only for so long). Democracy merely puts a less damaging option on the table, and allows the people to select that option - which is (most, but not necessarily all, of the time) a better way to handle things.

The use of violence to overturn an election is bad, not because it is immoral, but because (if the election actually reflects the will of the people) it is futile. Revolutionaries in such a case are outnumbered, and should expect to lose.

Of course, if the revolutionaries outnumber those who support the leader, democracy has failed - a "democracy" that installs an unpopular leader isn't a democracy at all, and deserves no respect nor restraint in its remodelling.
 
I suppose there are many true anecdotes where a white man has been passed over to hire a black man due to policies like AA.
The university admissions says that there clearly has been a lot of them.

And ...
You're missing those of us who think the proposed solutions are painting over the rust and won't actually fix anything. The need to do something drives an awful lot of wasteful behavior. Pay attention to whether that something will actually help and if you do it monitor how you're doing. Don't just assume that because the intent is to help that it's useful and that those who oppose it want the problem to persist.
... I won't dispute anything Loren writes here.

BUT racial prejudice and systemic discrimination still exist. The idea that white men generally have less opportunity than black men in today's America is quite ignorant, and itself racial prejudice.
Of course racial prejudice exists! There are racists of every stripe. The white ones probably have more power. But the question is whether the effect is big enough to be of importance--and the abysmal failure to produce solid evidence of any modern discrimination says to me that it's below statistical significance.

But note that you're moving the goalposts. I'm comparing equally qualified and saying that that favors women and blacks. Remove the "equally qualified" bit and there are differences. A lot of blacks take themselves out of the running for most any job of importance by getting a criminal record. And others take themselves out of the running by not acting white. The reality is that there is a double-humped curve. Those that do things right get an advantage from being black, those that don't fare worse. And the discrimination warriors keep trying to make the medians match rather than admit the problem.

Same thing with being female. Young, degreed, no children--being female gives about a 10% salary advantage.
 
I am not a cis white male but I sure am related to a whole lot of them and AFAIK none of them feel attacked as oppressors. I think that's a bit of propaganda ginned up to sew division. I will concede that there is a small portion of cis white males who feel oppressed because they are no longer in the front of the line for all good things as they have been for many many many generations. For some of them that feels like oppression.
Don't feel attacked as oppressors??? I see plenty of such attacks--and people resent it because they feel accused of a crime they didn't commit.
Receipts please. I am quite white, quite male. In school (elementary, high school, college) I never felt attacked. At work, never felt attacked.

Where is this occurring?
Just look around--I'm talking about the world at large, not personal situations.
I'm being polite, you made a broad claim, I asked for specifics because I have NOT observed that to be true in my lifetime... like ever. My daughter goes to a mixed race school and hasn't come home crying about how she was shamed for Dred Scot. I don't see it in the workplace, I don't see it where I live.

So please, humor me, and provide a few receipts that justify you stating: Don't feel attacked as oppressors??? I see plenty of such attacks--
And you continue to ignore the qualifier I put on it.
But still: I have family members I love a great deal who are 'stuck' in not great jobs. But I also know that a big part of their 'stuckness' is because they are very risk averse and also introverted --so extra risk averse and just struggle with not getting what they reach for. OTOH, I think I turned in 40+ applications to the place where I retired from before I was hired. What is the difference between them and me? Not a college degree. Almost certainly that I am extremely stubborn and very very very determined to get my foot in the door--which I eventually did by temping for the place I wanted to work at. I wanted that particular employer because I knew it would pay more than any other place within driving distance--and that driving distance was an hour on good roads (i.e. not winter). I know people who refused to apply there because they didn't want to make that drive nor did they want to move closer. Cis white males, every single one. Does that actually mean anything? Probably not. But maybe it does.
You realize a lot of what you are describing can also be explained by a lack of confidence that they can land on their feet. And that their evaluation might be correct. The willingness to take a chance doesn't exist in isolation, but it's related to how bad things would be if they take the chance and fail.
The willingness of risk is very real. Think of it like gambling. It is a lot easier to risk losing money in gambling when you plenty of it at the start.
But this isn't a matter of only risking a little money. For most people it's risking a lot. The issue comes down to what you will do if you don't get what you're after. Plenty of other options, fine, you try for the best one. Few options, you're more likely to stick with the option you have because a failure to get what you wanted is more likely to leave you with no options at hand.
One day, I wish you'd be able to look at some of these decisions from the perspective of a person in poverty. Because you are never going to understand until you can honestly see it in their point-of-view, particularly regarding access to money, food, shelter, etc... as well as the other issues of access to opportunities and knowing the paths that may be available. Life isn't a spreadsheet.
Poverty is an attitude. Look to the now, don't try to plan for down the road.

Of course it's a trap. That doesn't make it discrimination!

Note that poverty is different than being poor. We see lots of immigrants come here with basically nothing but they have the right attitudes and fare much better.
 
Do you know what triage is? It's where problems are evaluated and ranked from those needing the most attention to those needing the least attention, and further ranked by immediacy.
Yes, and in the real world you also pay attention to how easy or hard a problem is to fix.
Addressing issues of racial disparity de jure and de facto absolutely do start wtih changing behavior: The ER doctor would have been remiss not to have had a discussion about seat belt usage. Which does not rewind time but presumably, the child's arm was x-rayed, the bone(s) set, the arm casted and follow ups to ensure proper healing were carried out and in due time, the cast was removed.
That is a horrendous waste of an ER doc's time. And that's assuming he even knows. And note that you're proposing properly treating the problem anyway--I see AA as pretending seat belts will fix the broken arm. You persist in showing that the origin is in discrimination as if that somehow means you fix it by removing discrimination with the corollary that so long as you see an unequal result there must still be discrimination.

Individuals, and communities can be in crisis with regards to needing safe housing, adequate food, effective health care and treatment for acute and chronic conditions, including physical and mental health issues. Appropriate resources need to be deployed in order to help the individuals and communities to recover from the most immediate harms.
And once again the issue of mental health. Until the patient truly understands the need for treatment and wants to get better you're not going to be able to treat it. It's something that must be welcomed, not imposed.

What are the underlying causes of the crisis or injuries present individuals and communities? Are resources being adequately supplied and utilized? Are all members able to access needed education, jobs training, employment, health care, safety in their homes? Do they have access to counseling regarding substance abuse, and other issues?
Note that access and avail are two very different things.

To what extent is 'tradition' or bigotry or racism a factor in the issues faced by individuals and communities? To what degree is bigotry based upon perceived class differences an issue?
And where's the evidence that this is a meaningful impediment??

In the case of individuals and communities who are facing bigotry and racism, then those are root causes which must be addressed--by the individuals, communities, structures which exhibit racism and bigotry, consciously or unconsciously.
And you persist in assuming your diagnosis is correct. You're treating it as a diagnosis of exclusion while doing only a rudimentary check for other possibilities. The vast majority of "evidence" showing an ongoing problem is based on observation while almost certainly not considering confounders.
 
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