Trump Will Likely Win

[Elixir]

The big problem is that "Legally and constitutionally it technically can’t be done" doesn't mean shit to someone who doesn't care what's legal or constitutional. Things get violent when people who believe in laws and the constitution are getting screwed by illegal and unconstitutional acts.

 

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[Elixir]

Disclaimer in case Admin note above was directed at preceding post
- I don’t believe political violence, period.
Passive resistance is far more sympathetic and less bloody generally. The observation that violence arises

when people who believe in laws and the constitution are getting screwed by illegal and unconstitutional acts

I should have phrased “when people who believe in laws and the constitution and believe they are getting screwed by illegal and unconstitutional acts…”
My apology; that omission was regrettable and no “call to” violence intended of course. But everything from Antifa protests to J6 treasonous mayhem and everything in between, is obviously a result that belief.

ETA: I do not believe Democrats we’re screwed by a lot of illegal or unconstitutional acts, but by willing belief in ritually repeated lies, like virtually any other saturation advertising campaign, but on steroids due to vertical integration. The entire Republican establishment from Russian trolls to the fake news universe to TikTok, Shitter and Facebook recite the same gospel, promising to slake the righteous bloodlust the Republicans have fomented, and promising salvation under the shelter of a nest of golden hair.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

How will the rounding up and deportation go?

In our own history we have a model for that with Japanese interment camps. Go quietly or face the consequences. When it's not just the person who is threatened, but their entire family, compliance becomes the only option for most people.

As for $ costs, it's not a factor. Trumpites have already thrown in whole hog with tyranny. Even at their own financial detriment, they'll be happy to go without if that's what's needed.

Many German citizens didn't care that Jews were being deported/taken away. Many didn't know about the concentration camps, but even i they did they either didn't know what was going on there or didn't care-----or were supportive.

One of the features of a dictatorship is that things can happen fast. The consequences can be hidden and the people who supported tyranny can justify those consequences by blaming The Other.

 

[Shadowy Man]

As for $ costs, it's not a factor. Trumpites have already thrown in whole hog with tyranny. Even at their own financial detriment, they'll be happy to go without if that's what's needed.

bit it’s not the people who pay for it, it is Congress. Back when Trump wanted to build his wall, Congress wouldn’t pay for it. He had to try to move some military funding around. Is that what he’ll do this time? Will Congress even be able to pass a budget when the current CR expires? who will be doing the rounding up of the illegals? Border patrol? How many agents are needed? Was a bill passed to up the number of agents? How quickly could one be passed? Basically, there’s no way that on day one there’s going to be mass deportations. It’s going to take a lot of time.

 

[TomC]

who will be doing the rounding up of the illegals? Border patrol? How many agents are needed? Was a bill passed to up the number of agents? How quickly could one be passed? Basically, there’s no way that on day one there’s going to be mass deportations. It’s going to take a lot of time.

I don't think that will happen for the same reason it didn't for the last 20 years. Illegal immigrants are extremely profitable for the rich folks who buy the US government.

Not just immigrants. Undocumented workers. They keep wages down and consumption up. It's totally a win for the donor class to keep the status quo.
Tom

ETA ~Imagine what would happen to Walmart if they couldn't hire undocumented workers or sell stuff to them?~

 

[Elixir]

I don't think that will happen for the same reason it didn't for the last 20 years. Illegal immigrants are extremely profitable for the rich folks who buy the US government.

If it's profitable enough to Trump personally, that's what matters. Make him happy, okay, and he'll make you happy.
Putin will volunteer to come pick up as many illegals as Trump's goons can hand them, and send them to defend Russia's glory in Ukraine, solving everyone's problem at once. Round 'em up! Win win win, baby!

 

[Shadowy Man]

who will be doing the rounding up of the illegals? Border patrol? How many agents are needed? Was a bill passed to up the number of agents? How quickly could one be passed? Basically, there’s no way that on day one there’s going to be mass deportations. It’s going to take a lot of time.

I don't think that will happen for the same reason it didn't for the last 20 years. Illegal immigrants are extremely profitable for the rich folks who buy the US government.

Not just immigrants. Undocumented workers. They keep wages down and consumption up. It's totally a win for the donor class to keep the status quo.
Tom

ETA ~Imagine what would happen to Walmart if they couldn't hire undocumented workers or sell stuff to them?~

I tend to agree here. But does that mean that Trump will just not try it at all, after all that talk? Will the empty promises hurt the Republicans chances in future elections?

 

[TomC]

But does that mean that Trump will just not try it at all, after all that talk?

I don't know.
But if the donor class oppose something, do you think Trump could pull it off anyway?
I don't.

He did not manage to Build the Wall (and have Mexico pay) or even noticeably reduce the undocumented immigrants working in the profitable capitalist enterprises. Like Walmart, but there are lots of other ones.

No. He didn't even care about it. Except that he could rile up support from his low information supporters which kept the donor class happy and rich and willing and able to support him.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

ETA ~Imagine what would happen to Walmart if they couldn't hire undocumented workers or sell stuff to them?~

Or if there were 50% tariffs on Chinese goods?

I tend to agree here. But does that mean that Trump will just not try it at all, after all that talk? Will the empty promises hurt the Republicans chances in future elections?

He will try it. It's too tempting. It takes billions of dollars out of consumers' pockets before they even spend it and dumps it directly into the treasury, no waiting for tax time or any of that BS. Funds the government without taking a dime from billionaires, whose spending on consumer goods is negligible compared to their incomes growth in wealth.

 

[Politesse]

How will the rounding up and deportation go?

In our own history we have a model for that with Japanese interment camps. Go quietly or face the consequences. When it's not just the person who is threatened, but their entire family, compliance becomes the only option for most people.

As for $ costs, it's not a factor. Trumpites have already thrown in whole hog with tyranny. Even at their own financial detriment, they'll be happy to go without if that's what's needed.

Many German citizens didn't care that Jews were being deported/taken away. Many didn't know about the concentration camps, but even i they did they either didn't know what was going on there or didn't care-----or were supportive.

One of the features of a dictatorship is that things can happen fast. The consequences can be hidden and the people who supported tyranny can justify those consequences by blaming The Other.

If you want a blueprint, look up Operation Wetback. It's quietly referenced all through Trump's speeches and campaign documents, just in that dog-whistly way that the average citizen doesn't notice. Or at least can declaim knowledge of. "Eisenhower, who's that? I don't know anyone named Dwight! More paranoia from the left!"

But they'll be wanting to mount a very similar operation, that's not in doubt. Within white nationalist circles, they believe Operation Wetback was one of our nation's proudest moments, so naturally they want to do it all again at greater scale.

 

[SLD]

"Leave or go to jail."

That’s all they have to do is say “leave”?

He said it was going to be the largest deportation program in history. That’s going to take some effort.

And they're talking about denaturalization. I'm worried for my wife--she's naturalized, he hates China. China does not permit dual citizenship, the only citizenship she has is US.

How exactly would denaturalization work? My wife is also a naturalized citizen so I’m curious what you think would happen.

Legally and constitutionally it technically can’t be done. But the question remains whether SCOTUS’s immunity ruling will allow him to ignore the law and constitution. Will he simply decree you to no longer be a U.S. citizen, unless of course you support him? He just throws you out? You wake up on the other side of the border with Mexico without a passport? Can he do that to natural born citizens?

The bigger problem with deportation is you have to deport them somewhere. Other nations aren't going to be cool with this! They'll stop letting planes even touch the tarmac.

Good idea. Cut relations and isolate the United States. That would be fucking awesome.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Legally and constitutionally it technically can’t be done. But the question remains whether SCOTUS’s immunity ruling will allow him to ignore the law and constitution. Will he simply decree you to no longer be a U.S. citizen, unless of course you support him? He just throws you out? You wake up on the other side of the border with Mexico without a passport? Can he do that to natural born citizens?

The bigger problem with deportation is you have to deport them somewhere. Other nations aren't going to be cool with this! They'll stop letting planes even touch the tarmac.

Good idea. Cut relations and isolate the United States. That would be fucking awesome.

But they need to drop the people somewhere. Isolation won't help with deportations. There is no magic deportation button that plunks them in the woods in the middle of no where Colombia. Of course, Putin could use them to fight Ukraine.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Just the number and size of the detention camps necessary for the deportations is mind-boggling. The Christian Nationalist police state, headed by a 78-year-old toddler who must, must be constantly praised.

How much will it cost? How many new employees will it take? How will they get Congress to approve the funds? Or will he just shift current military funds like he did with his wall, which I guess he can now finish building.

Why would it be expensive?

Are there preexisting detention camps we can fill? Or would they need to be built? Or facilities taken from other uses that would then have to be replaced? All government programs cost money and personnel resources.

"Leave or go to jail."

That’s all they have to do is say “leave”?

He said it was going to be the largest deportation program in history. That’s going to take some effort.

The point is that most of them he could scare into leaving.

And they're talking about denaturalization. I'm worried for my wife--she's naturalized, he hates China. China does not permit dual citizenship, the only citizenship she has is US.

How exactly would denaturalization work? My wife is also a naturalized citizen so I’m curious what you think would happen.

Don't ask me, it's not supposed to happen other than if you lied on your citizenship application and it's not supposed to happen at all to those who do not have another citizenship.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Legally and constitutionally it technically can’t be done. But the question remains whether SCOTUS’s immunity ruling will allow him to ignore the law and constitution. Will he simply decree you to no longer be a U.S. citizen, unless of course you support him? He just throws you out? You wake up on the other side of the border with Mexico without a passport? Can he do that to natural born citizens?

The bigger problem with deportation is you have to deport them somewhere. Other nations aren't going to be cool with this! They'll stop letting planes even touch the tarmac.

Good idea. Cut relations and isolate the United States. That would be fucking awesome.

But they need to drop the people somewhere. Isolation won't help with deportations. There is no magic deportation button that plunks them in the woods in the middle of no where Colombia. Of course, Putin could use them to fight Ukraine.

I wouldn't trust he wouldn't just put them in adrift in the waters of the country he's deporting them to.