Trump's wall

[Elixir]

The latest example was the Christian US president saying he invaded Iraq because his god told him to.

In the US, Slavery goes on unopposed for centuries by the majority of Christian leaders. The majority in fact spoke in favor of it.

A devout Catholic named Adolf Hitler sees himself carrying out the will of his Christian god.

The Christian monarchies, nothing but brutal dictatorships, started endless wars, caused untold misery, again for centuries.

What a better world we would have if these Christians did not exist.

They are a reflection of humanity. Getting rid of those individuals would have no effect overall. If they weren't Christians they'd be something else. Gods are people's way of distancing themselves emotionally from their own heinous acts, but heinous acts are what people do. Only the scale varies.
Face it, Unter; you (and a disproportionate segment of TFT participants) are an outlier on the spectrum of humans' overall kindness to humans outside of their immediate families. People are mean-ass animals on average. Whether their meanness is provoked by perceived needs or by acquired power, it's the same stuff.

 

[marc]

Hitler was technically a Catholic and ex-communicated. He was critical of how some Christians and denominations supported an idea of equality because he believed in survival of the fittest at his core.

When was Hitler ex-communicated? I've seen a few places that said he never was, and would like to know if that was true.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/YP_iNCGH9kY?list=FLVzcro5CkKy3cwQU8vrVfuQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hitler was technically a Catholic and ex-communicated. He was critical of how some Christians and denominations supported an idea of equality because he believed in survival of the fittest at his core.

When was Hitler ex-communicated? I've seen a few places that said he never was, and would like to know if that was true.

My guess would be some time after Pope Pius The Assiest died.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Hitler was technically a Catholic and ex-communicated. He was critical of how some Christians and denominations supported an idea of equality because he believed in survival of the fittest at his core.

When was Hitler ex-communicated? I've seen a few places that said he never was, and would like to know if that was true.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/YP_iNCGH9kY?list=FLVzcro5CkKy3cwQU8vrVfuQ[/YOUTUBE]

I thought I had learned that, but now that I look on the Internets maybe I am mistaken in my recollection or was taught incorrectly. As I looked, I did find a "MIT BRENNENDER SORGE" (with deep anxiety) written by the Pope to German Catholics which was critical of German leaders in 1937, but perhaps an actual ex-communication was not done because the Vatican would be left with no leverage if it were.

 

[J842P]

Hitler was not a devout Catholic. Nazism was probably most aligned with German Protestantism which was even more virulently antisemitic than the Catholic Church, which is saying a lot. He certainly couched his antisemitic rhetoric in Christian terms, since the majority of Germans and Nazis were Christians. While he had a treaty with the Vatican, he allowed Protestant persecution of Catholics. Publicly, he praised "Aryan Christianity," but privately, his opinion was that Christianity was absurd. He was probably an atheist, and if he had any supernatural beliefs, it was probably some weird sort of nationalist Neo-paganism. Although, according to Speer he thought that was stupid too, and a lot of his inner circle were into that at the time (e.g. Himmler).

Hitler banned atheist groups in 1933.

Besides that, I think you ought to make a distinction between the organized religion (hierarchical denominations) of Christianity and the belief in Christianity. Hitler was technically a Catholic and ex-communicated. He was critical of how some Christians and denominations supported an idea of equality because he believed in survival of the fittest at his core.

IMO, Hitler wanted a religion that put his ego on a pedestal but had no real problem with a theistic belief. If I had to compare his beliefs to a modern religion, it would be radical Islamism, where the prophet is Hitler, not Mohammed. Some other modern cults could probably also be compared well.

Yes, he was "technically" a Catholic since he was Baptized a Catholic. I do not think he believed in Christian teachings, i.e. that Jesus was the Son of God who died for our Sins, yadda yadda. According to Goebbels diary, Hitler was "deeply religious by anti-Christian." Goebbels wrote in his diary:

The Führer is deeply religious, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race. This can be seen in the similarity of their religious rites. Both (Judaism and Christianity) have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end they will be destroyed.

He saw Christianity as having destroyed everything that was noble about Europe. He did see the value in a state-controlled Protestant Church, though. But personally, he was extremely dismissive of Protestant belief (and again, Christianity general). His beliefs were rather complex, and he himself wrote:

"I'm convinced that any pact with the Church can offer only a provisional benefit, for sooner or later the scientific spirit will disclose the harmful character of such a compromise. Thus the State will have based its existence on a foundation that one day will collapse. An educated man retains the sense of the mysteries of nature and bows before the unknowable. An uneducated man, on the other hand, runs the risk of going over to atheism (which is a return to the state of the animal) as soon as he perceives that the State, in sheer opportunism, is making use of false ideas in the matter of religion, whilst in other fields it bases everything on pure science"

So, at least he didn't identify as an atheist. So, he was some sort of pseudo-mystic, although interestingly not Neo-pagan. With regards to the neo-Paganism that Himmler was trying to institute in the SS, he was reported to have said:

What nonsense! Here we have at last reached an age that has left all mysticism behind it, and now [Himmler] wants to start that all over again. We might just as well have stayed with the church. At least it had tradition. To think that I may, some day, be turned into an SS saint! Can you imagine it? I would turn over in my grave...

What is undeniable is that he saw Augustan Rome as the pinnacle of civilization, and in that sense, he probably saw value in Roman Imperial religion.

And it's interesting that you compare him to Islamism. He is reported to have said "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?".

 

[credoconsolans]

Hitler was never ex-communicated by the RCC.

He himself said he'd die a Catholic.

 

[J842P]

Hitler was never ex-communicated by the RCC.

He himself said he'd die a Catholic.

Maybe publicly, although I am not aware of any such quote, but certainly *privately* he was very much not a Catholic or Christian of any kind, and was extremely disparaging and dismissive of Christianity.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Also doesn't the US economy need the Mexican migrant labourers? They'd do best to pursue Trump's policies half-heartedly.

Yeah, or quietly oppose them. The agriculture lobby might not be able to convince Trump that his wall is a bad idea, but Congress critters in districts where the farm industry depends on migrant workers will face some serious conversations with donors whose bottom lines would be threatened by a wall, to say nothing of mass deportations.

We saw this happen here in Arizona when the infamous "papers please" law was passed. In that law was also a provision (updated from a previous law) that levied significant sanctions on employers found to have hired illegal immigrants. And like the previous employer sanctions provision, it was not enforced at all. Many illegal immigrants were rounded up, but no business were forced to shut down.

I'm really surprised to hear that. You are insinuating that xenophobic conservatives can also be hypocrites. Never happens.

 

[braces_for_impact]

OK. Here to help with a serious derail about Hitler and the Catholics during WWII, since there's so much bullshit floating around about it.

The BLOG on the subject is here.

The PODCAST on it here.

 

[DrZoidberg]

IMO, Hitler wanted a religion that put his ego on a pedestal but had no real problem with a theistic belief. If I had to compare his beliefs to a modern religion, it would be radical Islamism, where the prophet is Hitler, not Mohammed. Some other modern cults could probably also be compared well.

Islamism is a contested term. I'm not sure what what "radical" adds. But I assume you mean Islamofascism which is based on fascism.

Fun fact both Nazism and Fascism were modeled on Atatürks the Young Turks. But we can't really blame this on Islam since he was a fanatic secularist. He hated everything about the Caliphate and what it stood for. The German Nazi flag is supposedly the Turkish flag with a swastika inlaid.

 

[DrZoidberg]

When was Hitler ex-communicated? I've seen a few places that said he never was, and would like to know if that was true.

Before Hitler and Mussolini became palls Mussolini tried getting Hitler excommunicated. But the pope would have none of it.

 

[credoconsolans]

Hitler was never ex-communicated by the RCC.

He himself said he'd die a Catholic.

Maybe publicly, although I am not aware of any such quote, but certainly *privately* he was very much not a Catholic or Christian of any kind, and was extremely disparaging and dismissive of Christianity.

Mein Kampf is full of Christian references. Were they just manipulative bullshit? Hard to say, since he wrote it when he was still a powerless thug in prison. He may very well have believed he was an instrument of 'providence/god/whatever'.

The quote is accurate. It was reported by one of his chiefs in 1943. I can't remember what book I read that out of.

 

[bleubird]

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/see-stephen-colbert-experts-help-blueprint-trumps-wall-w471677
40 million rolls of wall paper.Great stuff.

 

[untermensche]

The latest example was the Christian US president saying he invaded Iraq because his god told him to.

In the US, Slavery goes on unopposed for centuries by the majority of Christian leaders. The majority in fact spoke in favor of it.

A devout Catholic named Adolf Hitler sees himself carrying out the will of his Christian god.

The Christian monarchies, nothing but brutal dictatorships, started endless wars, caused untold misery, again for centuries.

What a better world we would have if these Christians did not exist.

They are a reflection of humanity. Getting rid of those individuals would have no effect overall. If they weren't Christians they'd be something else. Gods are people's way of distancing themselves emotionally from their own heinous acts, but heinous acts are what people do. Only the scale varies.
Face it, Unter; you (and a disproportionate segment of TFT participants) are an outlier on the spectrum of humans' overall kindness to humans outside of their immediate families. People are mean-ass animals on average. Whether their meanness is provoked by perceived needs or by acquired power, it's the same stuff.

No, Christians are an unusually ignorant and violent lot.

Responsible for the misery of untold millions.

White male Christians?

Again, an unusually destructive and despicable group of ignoramuses.

 

[Kharakov]

Here's my prediction. Trump won't actually build the wall. But he'll say he has. And when the media questions him he'll say that they are lying.

Whatever. I built the wall yesterday. It's there.

The question is, who is going to pay for this great wall, The Greater Wall of Trump's America. Only a few hundred years behind China, as usual. They beat us again.

We need to figure out how these bastards are doing that. Always one step ahead. They've got spies somewhere, knew we were going to build a wall. They knew. They knew.

Our wall is better. It is, dare I say it, fabulous.

 

[Keith&Co.]

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/see-stephen-colbert-experts-help-blueprint-trumps-wall-w471677
40 million rolls of wall paper.Great stuff.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Trump's wall is going to be 100 feet tall?

And this year's King Kong bumps the big ape up to 100 foot tall.

Coincidence?

Maybe we're not building this wall to keep the Mexicans out...

 

[iolo]

Anyone who believes Hitler was any sort of Christian is obviously so crazy they'd have voted for him. The way Church bureaucracies grovel to power is another question.

 

[credoconsolans]

Anyone who believes Hitler was any sort of Christian is obviously so crazy they'd have voted for him. The way Church bureaucracies grovel to power is another question.

Of course he was a Christian.

So were the murdering, whore-mongering, conniving, greedy despicable Popes of the Crusades and the Renaissance.

They were just bad ones.

 

[LordKiran]

Anyone who believes Hitler was any sort of Christian is obviously so crazy they'd have voted for him. The way Church bureaucracies grovel to power is another question.

Of course he was a Christian.

So were the murdering, whore-mongering, conniving, greedy despicable Popes of the Crusades and the Renaissance.

They were just bad ones.

If publicly proclaiming yourself a christian is all you need to be a christian no matter what else is said or done then that sort of renders the term useless.

 

[RavenSky]

Of course he was a Christian.

So were the murdering, whore-mongering, conniving, greedy despicable Popes of the Crusades and the Renaissance.

They were just bad ones.

If publicly proclaiming yourself a christian is all you need to be a christian no matter what else is said or done then that sort of renders the term useless.

It is useless, but that is a different discussion.

Since various sects under the Christianity umbrella insist that "works" don't matter, proclaiming one's self to be "Christian" is indeed all that is needed.