US President 2016 - the Great Horse Race

[Loren Pechtel]

Realistically this only makes sense for rural dwellers.

Suppose I stockpiled a year's food? If the shit hits the fan badly enough that I need it what are the chances the electricity and water will work? This place is completely uninhabitable without both.

Also, if the shit hits the fan and I know that you have a year's supply of food, I'm totally going to murder you and steal all your food. I mean ... nothing personal ... but that's what's going to happen.

Yup, this is the other problem with being well prepared other than in rural territory.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Realistically this only makes sense for rural dwellers.

Suppose I stockpiled a year's food? If the shit hits the fan badly enough that I need it what are the chances the electricity and water will work? This place is completely uninhabitable without both.

Then you'd better make sure to stock up on bootstraps, dude. You'll have a lot of pulling up to do.

Also, "there's your sign" that you're doing the environment no favors by being there.

I'm saying I know it's not realistic to be a prepper.

As for the environment--that describes most of the world these days. You can't reasonably pack 7B people into the areas where you can survive without utilities.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Also, if the shit hits the fan and I know that you have a year's supply of food, I'm totally going to murder you and steal all your food. I mean ... nothing personal ... but that's what's going to happen.

That doesn't work as well as some people think. Looting is essentially a zero sum game. Attempts to loot food will result in a violent response - not from the overworked police but from the people who will be defending their store. In a looting transaction there is a definite winner and a definite loser, either the looter is killed or the food owner loses his food and possibly his life. Therefore those who do have a store will not hesitate to defend themselves, and those who don't have as much of a stockpile will be even more concerned with defending what little they have.

Will it be worth it to risk your life for a handful of crackers? If you're hungry enough it will be, and you do that often enough the odds will catch up to you. Looting in anything but a short term crisis is a dead-end game.

Don't loot, you die. Loot, you probably die. What are most people going to choose?

And for all those who think "well, I'll just go out into the country and live off the land", good luck with that because it won't work. Not only do you need to know which plants are edible, within a year the intense competition will make it lucky if you find as much as a squirrel. Oh, and you'll also run into people who are armed and don't want you hunting on their land, that will be considered poaching and looting.

Yup. In such a situation few survive, perhaps none. (While the population will eventually be reduced to what the land can support it will likely be the most brutal, not the most productive.)

 

[bilby]

That doesn't work as well as some people think. Looting is essentially a zero sum game. Attempts to loot food will result in a violent response - not from the overworked police but from the people who will be defending their store. In a looting transaction there is a definite winner and a definite loser, either the looter is killed or the food owner loses his food and possibly his life. Therefore those who do have a store will not hesitate to defend themselves, and those who don't have as much of a stockpile will be even more concerned with defending what little they have.

Will it be worth it to risk your life for a handful of crackers? If you're hungry enough it will be, and you do that often enough the odds will catch up to you. Looting in anything but a short term crisis is a dead-end game.

Don't loot, you die. Loot, you probably die. What are most people going to choose?

And for all those who think "well, I'll just go out into the country and live off the land", good luck with that because it won't work. Not only do you need to know which plants are edible, within a year the intense competition will make it lucky if you find as much as a squirrel. Oh, and you'll also run into people who are armed and don't want you hunting on their land, that will be considered poaching and looting.

Yup. In such a situation few survive, perhaps none. (While the population will eventually be reduced to what the land can support it will likely be the most brutal, not the most productive.)

Absent civilization, the carrying capacity of the entire planet is about 5% of the current population. Only civilization can lift this number significantly and sustainably. With civilization and current levels of advanced technology, we can sustainably provide for at least 15 billion people; Of course, the temptation to do unsustainable things (like burn all the coal we can find) is pretty large, and it remains to be seen whether we have the intelligence and organizational ability to avoid such disasters.

 

[ksen]

No, but we gotz WEED!

I'll be right there. Put the burgers on the grill!

There are no vegans during the post-apocalypse.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I'll be right there. Put the burgers on the grill!

There are no vegans during the post-apocalypse.

Yup. Vegans some good eatin'.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Then you'd better make sure to stock up on bootstraps, dude. You'll have a lot of pulling up to do.

Also, "there's your sign" that you're doing the environment no favors by being there.

I'm saying I know it's not realistic to be a prepper.

As for the environment--that describes most of the world these days. You can't reasonably pack 7B people into the areas where you can survive without utilities.

Clean water and where to poop. The two most important things. The idiots in the Oregon refuge couldn't contain their own poop and needed to dig a trench to poop in.

 

[Rhea]

I'll be right there. Put the burgers on the grill!

There are no vegans during the post-apocalypse.

I'm not sure I agree with that. With farming/ranching collapsed, hunting would decimate the meat population in pretty short order. After that we're all eating burdock roots and dandelion greens and that's pretty vegan.

 

[ElectEngr]

There are no vegans during the post-apocalypse.

I'm not sure I agree with that. With farming collapsed, hunting would decimate the meat population in pretty short order. After that we're all eating burdock roots and dandelion greens and that's pretty vegan.

Kind of reminds me of the John Wyndham book "The Day of the Triffids"

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Rhea]

Then you'd better make sure to stock up on bootstraps, dude. You'll have a lot of pulling up to do.

Also, "there's your sign" that you're doing the environment no favors by being there.

I'm saying I know it's not realistic to be a prepper.

As for the environment--that describes most of the world these days. You can't reasonably pack 7B people into the areas where you can survive without utilities.

To be fair, a good portion of that 7B currently survives without electricity. Another good portion could not make it to a self-living environment alive (Indonesia, Japan, Las Vegas ) And another good portion would not last long if they could make it.


So your next comment,

(While the population will eventually be reduced to what the land can support it will likely be the most brutal, not the most productive.)

rings true for those who make it to green zones and reinforces the idea that living in one of those not-survivable areas is your first prepper fail.

 

[Elixir]

I'm saying I know it's not realistic to be a prepper.

As for the environment--that describes most of the world these days. You can't reasonably pack 7B people into the areas where you can survive without utilities.

To be fair, a good portion of that 7B currently survives without electricity. Another good portion could not make it to a self-living environment alive (Indonesia, Japan, Las Vegas ) And another good portion would not last long if they could make it.


So your next comment,

(While the population will eventually be reduced to what the land can support it will likely be the most brutal, not the most productive.)

rings true and reinforces the idea that living in one of those areas is your first prepper fail.

Zackly. It cracks me up when I see these multi-million dollar underground nuke-proof luxury shelters in the LA suburbs or on remote mountain tops or waaaay out in the desert... "Yeah, we have enough food for a year, and plenty of hunting/fishing gear as well as our defensive weaponry...."

Hoooookay... have a nice year! But forget about any progeny living past infancy.

 

[skepticalbip]

Oh yea... preppers ready for the ultimate apocalypse.

The ones who are best prepared are not even aware that they are, Amazonian tribes, Inuit living traditional life styles, remote African tribes, Southeast Asian hill tribes, etc. - they are just living their normal lives. Most of these would not even notice that a great worldwide political melt down happened if it does.

Not to say that people shouldn't be prepared to survive with food, water, etc. for several days in the event of a natural disaster like hurricane or earthquake. My preparation for such events served me well in the aftermath of Hurricane Matthew being without power, water, communication, or transportation for almost a week.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

To be fair, a good portion of that 7B currently survives without electricity. Another good portion could not make it to a self-living environment alive (Indonesia, Japan, Las Vegas ) And another good portion would not last long if they could make it.

Indonesians could cross the narrow ocean in small craft. I fully agree Las Vegas isn't survivable if things go seriously wrong.

rings true for those who make it to green zones and reinforces the idea that living in one of those not-survivable areas is your first prepper fail.

I'm not a prepper. I think it's simply prudent to be able to last on one's own for likely disaster-caused outages (which means a fair while if you're in rural parts of places like Idaho, the Dakotas etc.) but there's no reason to plan for more than that. The chances of surviving the human elements are minimal.

 

[ZiprHead]

There are no vegans during the post-apocalypse.

Yup. Vegans some good eatin'.

I always figured they'd be a little gamey from all the kale.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Indonesians could cross the narrow ocean in small craft. I fully agree Las Vegas isn't survivable if things go seriously wrong.

rings true for those who make it to green zones and reinforces the idea that living in one of those not-survivable areas is your first prepper fail.

I'm not a prepper. I think it's simply prudent to be able to last on one's own for likely disaster-caused outages (which means a fair while if you're in rural parts of places like Idaho, the Dakotas etc.) but there's no reason to plan for more than that. The chances of surviving the human elements are minimal.

Having to endure the native american taunting while the whites all die will be intolerable.

 

[ElectEngr]

Voted today.

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Harry Bosch]

Voted today.

Later,
ElectEngr

Me too. I voted for HRC. Proudest vote of my life.

 

[Elixir]

Voted today.

Later,
ElectEngr

Me too. I voted for HRC. Proudest vote of my life.

I voted for HRC on Thrusday, and now I want my ballot back. Because now I know that the FBI isn't sure that any of the emails that Hillary didn't send to a computer that wasn't hers are not significant. Shocking! It's the BIGGEST SCANDAL SINCE WATER- UH.... PUSSYGATE!

 

[Harry Bosch]

Me too. I voted for HRC. Proudest vote of my life.

I voted for HRC on Thrusday, and now I want my ballot back. Because now I know that the FBI isn't sure that any of the emails that Hillary didn't send to a computer that wasn't hers are not significant. Shocking! It's the BIGGEST SCANDAL SINCE WATER- UH.... PUSSYGATE!

Yea, I had the exact same reaction. This is the most overblown "scandal" in the history of October surprises. I mean it might have some importance if we can see the dastardly e-mails, but Comey won't even release it. Wow. Good thing that he's impartial!

 

[fromderinside]

I got it from somewhere that the emails on Wiener's laptop didn't come from Clinton's server. Can anybody cite a reference. It may be I read it on twitter.