Speakpigeon
Contributor
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2009
- Messages
- 6,317
- Location
- Paris, France, EU
- Basic Beliefs
- Rationality (i.e. facts + logic), Scepticism (not just about God but also everything beyond my subjective experience)
-
Features
What is god?
- Thread starter AthenaAwakened
- Start date
Underseer
Contributor
The Old Testament/Torah can't be older than 6th century BCE because that is when Jews learned how to read and write, but does that necessarily mean that the stories are that old?
how do you come up with that-^?
Tristan Scott
Senior Member
The first five books probably written then, in their final form, but that still predates Plato by several hundred years. I would agree that there is Hellenistic influence in Torah, but the stories and many of the events depicted in the Pentateuch come from a strong oral tradition from much earlier dates. Much of Genesis comes from Babylonian mythology dating back as far as 2500 BCE, with surviving writings (i.e. Gilgamesh and Enuma Elish) of the same dating before 1200 BCE. Also I believe Hebrew inscriptions have been found on pottery dating back to 1000 BCE and possibly earlier. However the oral traditions of these ancient peoples should be stressed as this was the predominant method of communication; stories and mythologies were passed on for centuries through oral tradition.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Ehe? Yes, they can. The Torah is a oral narrative written down. Oral stories can be 300 000 years old... older than humanity itself. Since religions evolve, I'd say chances are pretty good that the Torah has elements way way way old. Stuff we haven't the foggiest clue where they come from, and couldn't possibly date.
Most of the Torah is basically warped versions of Mesopotamian templates. We know this because we've found the Mesopotamian "originals". But did the Mesopotamians invent them? Who the fuck knows? Studies of gypsy oral traditions in the Balkans suggest that oral traditions can be kept, pretty much, intact for centuries. So probably way older than Mesopotamia. Way older than writing. Way older than farming. But we'll never know how old. Maybe nobody invented anything. Maybe it's all just Chinese whispers?
bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 40,218
- Gender
- He/Him
- Basic Beliefs
- Strong Atheist
Kharakov
Quantum Hot Dog
Perspicuo
Veteran Member
Not for everybody, that much should be obvious.
EB
Given the fact that theologians and religions (and even within religions) they can't agree, going around justifying faith to yourself should be (and is, we can attest every single day) a full time job.
It's only if you have been indoctrinated from a very young age, that pulling out of belief in "Allah" or "Jesus the brother of Lucifer", or whatever, is hard as chewing gravel, in spite of the fact that believing 100% is not a piece of cake either. Faith is sailing in a storm whichever way you go, and whatver religion it may refer to.
I prefer being completely honest to myself about not knowing (but knowing the case for any particular deity is risible) than to ever attempt to justify believing in the unbelievable of any stripe, ever again. But that's just me.
Keith&Co.
Contributor
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2006
- Messages
- 22,444
- Location
- Far Western Mass
- Gender
- Here.
- Basic Beliefs
- I'm here...
I dunno.
I'm still trying to figure out why God needs a spaceship.
Thomas II
Contributor
4321lynx
Veteran Member
Thomas II
Contributor
Thomas II
Contributor
Thomas II
Contributor
https://whynogod.wordpress.com/
This page presents concise rebuttals to the most common arguments and claims made by theists. It also includes relevant links to additional resources. A small number of points deal specifically with Christianity, however the vast majority are applicable to all forms of theism. Links marked with (must watch) or (must read) are considered particularly good at expanding on a topic.
This page presents concise rebuttals to the most common arguments and claims made by theists. It also includes relevant links to additional resources. A small number of points deal specifically with Christianity, however the vast majority are applicable to all forms of theism. Links marked with (must watch) or (must read) are considered particularly good at expanding on a topic.
skepticalbip
Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 7,304
- Basic Beliefs
- Everything we know is wrong (to some degree)
Not only is god watching all the time, he is especially obsessed in our naughty bits and what we do with them... fucking pervert.
Last edited:
bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 40,218
- Gender
- He/Him
- Basic Beliefs
- Strong Atheist
The only naughty bit I have is my brain - and Gods do indeed seem to be particularly obsessed with ensuring we don't use our brains, at least when it comes to the assessment of religious claims.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
What's the ugliest part of your body?
What's the ugliest part of your body?
Some say your nose, some say your toes,
But I think it's your mind, your mind!
- Frank Zappa
What's the ugliest part of your body?
Some say your nose, some say your toes,
But I think it's your mind, your mind!
- Frank Zappa
jimrich
New member
DrZoidberg
Contributor
All that there is.
Yes, whatever that is.
I know that.
Yes.
So are you a Hindu or a Pantheist?