What liberals (still) get wrong about Trump's support

[Jimmy Higgins]

Capitalism doesn't even work in theory.

It does work, but it needs a boat load of failsafes.

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So how does this make liberals wrong about Trump's support?..... It STILL sounds like Trump's base are deplorable hypocritical bigots.

Because, as was pointed out earlier in this thread "protect[ing] their beliefs and way of life" means protecting their ability to discriminate against homosexuals and occasional minorities.

Oh, I get it. "Liberals" are wrong to predict that Trump's supporters have an ounce of self respect.

Essentially, yes.

In my fave right wing forum there's still a gay wedding cake thread raging. So far the baker is 'an artist' so shouldn't be forced to make his 'art' for anyone, plus they all sagely agree that the Christian cake maker is a second class citizen, beholden to the whims and wishes of others (by being forced to bake a cake against his will).

It gets worse, Trump's support among Republicans is still flirting with 90%. So this is everyone, not just the Brown shirts marching for the blood of Jewish. Tariffs, taking children from people seeking asylum, affair payment of the week...

...tax cuts and Christian Dominionist state, is apparently all they care about.

 

[untermensche]

Capitalism doesn't even work in theory.

It does work, but it needs a boat load of failsafes.

Allowing dictatorships to dominate with real power in any form is a human disaster.

Capitalism fails in it's blindness towards dictators and hatred for democracy.

Capitalism and democracy do not mix. They are forever in conflict.

China shows that capitalism has no connection to democracy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Capitalism doesn't even work in theory.

It does work, but it needs a boat load of failsafes.

Allowing dictatorships to dominate with real power in any form is a human disaster.

Capitalism fails in it's blindness towards dictators and hatred for democracy.

Capitalism and democracy do not mix. They are forever in conflict.

China shows that capitalism has no connection to democracy.

That is just bullshit. Capitalism in its purest form, like almost everything else, is doomed to failure. But capitalism with failsafes, social codes, and regulation can and does work. The problem is people forget about the codes and try to undo regulation in order to get more profit. Then more sociopaths get on board, and then it gets bad until it is stopped via regulation. Unfortunately, we are at another low spot with unbelievably insane amount of corporate consolidation and one political party that wants corporations to do whatever they'd like.

As a side note, your continued use of democracy as an antonym of capitalism and dictatorship as a synonym for capitalism just starts making you look like the Time Cube author.

 

[untermensche]

Allowing dictatorships to dominate with real power in any form is a human disaster.

Capitalism fails in it's blindness towards dictators and hatred for democracy.

Capitalism and democracy do not mix. They are forever in conflict.

China shows that capitalism has no connection to democracy.

That is just bullshit. Capitalism in its purest form, like almost everything else, is doomed to failure. But capitalism with failsafes, social codes, and regulation can and does work. The problem is people forget about the codes and try to undo regulation in order to get more profit. Then more sociopaths get on board, and then it gets bad until it is stopped via regulation. Unfortunately, we are at another low spot with unbelievably insane amount of corporate consolidation and one political party that wants corporations to do whatever they'd like.

As a side note, your continued use of democracy as an antonym of capitalism and dictatorship as a synonym for capitalism just starts making you look like the Time Cube author.

A corporation is as rigid a dictatorship as ever has existed.

If corporations had no power then dictatorship would not be a problem.

Any human dictatorship with power is something to eliminate.

 

[Underseer]

This seems to be a running theme with a lot of conservolibertarian excuses:

(Paraphrase) Just because someone voted for Trump doesn't make them racist!!!!!

That bullshit is just splitting hairs.

Are we supposed to make a distinction between being racist and wanting racists in positions of power where they can maximize the damage their racism causes? If there is a difference, it is functionally trivial.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Allowing dictatorships to dominate with real power in any form is a human disaster.

Capitalism fails in it's blindness towards dictators and hatred for democracy.

Capitalism and democracy do not mix. They are forever in conflict.

China shows that capitalism has no connection to democracy.

That is just bullshit. Capitalism in its purest form, like almost everything else, is doomed to failure. But capitalism with failsafes, social codes, and regulation can and does work. The problem is people forget about the codes and try to undo regulation in order to get more profit. Then more sociopaths get on board, and then it gets bad until it is stopped via regulation. Unfortunately, we are at another low spot with unbelievably insane amount of corporate consolidation and one political party that wants corporations to do whatever they'd like.

As a side note, your continued use of democracy as an antonym of capitalism and dictatorship as a synonym for capitalism just starts making you look like the Time Cube author.

A corporation is as rigid a dictatorship as ever has existed.

If corporations had no power then dictatorship would not be a problem.

Any human dictatorship with power is something to eliminate.

No. What you miss is that people can vote with their feet. That severely limits the power of a corporate "dictator". Treat the workers too bad and they go work for your competition instead. Serious abuse generally only happens when they don't have a choice of where to work.

 

[untermensche]

A corporation is as rigid a dictatorship as ever has existed.

If corporations had no power then dictatorship would not be a problem.

Any human dictatorship with power is something to eliminate.

No. What you miss is that people can vote with their feet. That severely limits the power of a corporate "dictator". Treat the workers too bad and they go work for your competition instead. Serious abuse generally only happens when they don't have a choice of where to work.

I am talking principles and you are talking about dreams.

You can't vote with your feet to eliminate the military industrial complex or the stranglehold oil companies have on governments.

Corporations become mired with governments and supported by governments.

What the people do is meaningless.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A corporation is as rigid a dictatorship as ever has existed.

If corporations had no power then dictatorship would not be a problem.

Any human dictatorship with power is something to eliminate.

No. What you miss is that people can vote with their feet. That severely limits the power of a corporate "dictator". Treat the workers too bad and they go work for your competition instead. Serious abuse generally only happens when they don't have a choice of where to work.

I am talking principles and you are talking about dreams.

You can't vote with your feet to eliminate the military industrial complex or the stranglehold oil companies have on governments.

Corporations become mired with governments and supported by governments.

What the people do is meaningless.

You have it exactly backwards. You're talking dreams that will never work.

 

[untermensche]

I am talking principles and you are talking about dreams.

You can't vote with your feet to eliminate the military industrial complex or the stranglehold oil companies have on governments.

Corporations become mired with governments and supported by governments.

What the people do is meaningless.

You have it exactly backwards. You're talking dreams that will never work.

Replacing dictatorship with democracy has worked wherever it has been tried.

We do not need dictatorships.

Those that cry for dictatorship are so lost it is amusing.

Part human part brainwashed dog.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A corporation is as rigid a dictatorship as ever has existed.

If corporations had no power then dictatorship would not be a problem.

Any human dictatorship with power is something to eliminate.

No. What you miss is that people can vote with their feet. That severely limits the power of a corporate "dictator". Treat the workers too bad and they go work for your competition instead. Serious abuse generally only happens when they don't have a choice of where to work.

Yup, thanks to consolidation, that isn't true anymore, except for sodas.

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I am talking principles and you are talking about dreams.

You can't vote with your feet to eliminate the military industrial complex or the stranglehold oil companies have on governments.

Corporations become mired with governments and supported by governments.

What the people do is meaningless.

You have it exactly backwards. You're talking dreams that will never work.

Remind me again how many major banks needed to be rescued in the fall of 2008? All of them?

 

[laughing dog]

Never mind

 

[Emily Lake]

A corporation is as rigid a dictatorship as ever has existed.

Not really, no. Most corporations have a board of directors, and are beholden to their stockholders. At worst, a corporation is more like the house of lords than a dictatorship... usually with wealth or status taking the place of hereditary nobility.

 

[Elixir]

A corporation is as rigid a dictatorship as ever has existed.

Not really, no. Most corporations have a board of directors, and are beholden to their stockholders. At worst, a corporation is more like the house of lords than a dictatorship... usually with wealth or status taking the place of hereditary nobility.

...and they can be toppled by ill winds from the economic sector, changes in market profiles, sheer incompetence or the will of their consumer base - to all of which actual dictatorships are immune.

 

[untermensche]

A corporation is as rigid a dictatorship as ever has existed.

Not really, no. Most corporations have a board of directors, and are beholden to their stockholders. At worst, a corporation is more like the house of lords than a dictatorship... usually with wealth or status taking the place of hereditary nobility.

I am talking about the power structure within the corporation.

Some elite small group at the top makes decisions that cannot be challenged by anyone below them in the power structure.

If they decide they are going to pack up and use the resources current workers have created to move to some other country....guess what?

Why did the US have a flight of manufacturing?

Because total control was in the hands of a small group of people.

 

[Emily Lake]

"Small group of powerful people" <> "dictatorship"

Heck, any representational democracy or republic is in the hands of a small group of powerful people...

 

[Elixir]

"Small group of powerful people" <> "dictatorship"

Heck, any representational democracy or republic is in the hands of a small group of powerful people...

I get the sense that Unter has never started, run or tried to grow a business. Reality is sure to descend upon anyone who tries any such endeavor.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

This seems to be a running theme with a lot of conservolibertarian excuses:

(Paraphrase) Just because someone voted for Trump doesn't make them racist!!!!!

That bullshit is just splitting hairs.

Are we supposed to make a distinction between being racist and wanting racists in positions of power where they can maximize the damage their racism causes? If there is a difference, it is functionally trivial.

Then why did you vote for him?

 

[dismal]

"Small group of powerful people" <> "dictatorship"

Heck, any representational democracy or republic is in the hands of a small group of powerful people...

I get the sense that Unter has never started, run or tried to grow a business. Reality is sure to descend upon anyone who tries any such endeavor.

I sometimes wonder if he's ever managed to get out of bed and feed himself breakfast.

 

[bilby]

"Small group of powerful people" <> "dictatorship"

Heck, any representational democracy or republic is in the hands of a small group of powerful people...

I get the sense that Unter has never started, run or tried to grow a business. Reality is sure to descend upon anyone who tries any such endeavor.

I sometimes wonder if he's ever managed to get out of bed and feed himself breakfast.

He can't; Because first he would have to grt half way out of bed, then half of the rest of the way, then half of the rest, and so on an infinite number of times; And infinity is an evil plot whose sole purpose is to try to make him appear foolish.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Some elite small group at the top makes decisions that cannot be challenged by anyone below them in the power structure.

If they decide they are going to pack up and use the resources current workers have created to move to some other country....guess what?

Why did the US have a flight of manufacturing?

Because total control was in the hands of a small group of people.

I've challenged leadership decisions and won. I explained why the proposed approach would not work and eventually got through to the owner that writing it would be a waste of time.

And we did not have a flight of manufacturing because of the power structure. Had your "democratic" ideals prevailed we would have seen the problem even worse as those US companies unwilling to lay off workers would have gone under in response to foreign competition. Besides, the real killer of manufacturing jobs was mechanization and automation. The factories that didn't leave still employ far fewer workers/unit of production than they used to.