Where is Bernie Goetz when you need him?

[Nice Squirrel]

Derec almost exclusively uses the term with blacks. Black teens, black criminals, violent black protesters, peaceful black protesters, etc...

I'll gladly recant if someone can show a few examples of him using the word otherwise.

I'd prefer you show an example (just one, if you want.. no need for "a few") of Derec assuming someone was black because they were called a thug, OR of him calling someone a thug because they are black.

If you want to say that the word thug is racist then that is just exposing your own racism because you are internally associating "criminal" with "black".

The word "thug" is old. been around a long ass time. When I hear the term, I think of mobster types... Like the folks in the IRA.. or the Italian Mafia.
Of the stupid ass use of terms I see around here, this one is the most comical to me.

Knock yourselves out folks.
https://talkfreethought.org/search.php?searchid=558828

 

[Toni]

No, it is not "well documented". In fact, I have repeatedly stated that there are thugs of all races.
Now, it is mostly black ones where there is controversy. If a white thug named Michael Brown had robbed a store and attacked a police officer, it would have been a local news item in St. Louis, not a months long national story. A white Michael Brown would be just as much a thug, but we would not have had a 100+ thread about him.
I guess that's where most of the confusion comes from. That and your (and others') left-wing prejudices.

Derec, maybe you need some sleep or some glasses or something because usually you are not so careless in your reading. This is the second post that I can think of where you clearly misunderstand what the poster you are quoting is writing. I disagree with you far more often than not, but I don't usually think you didn't read something carefully.

Huh?

Derec, I am hardly the only person who remembers you specially as using the term 'thug' to describe any young black male you see as being somehow not perfectly compliant. In other words: young black male.

 

[ronburgundy]

True, because almost all of them likely had smart phones, and most much more expensive than mine, which is why the excuse that they were all desperately poor victims of capitalism is nonsense.
Most likely they are inductees into a violent gang and this mass robbery was orchestrated by adult gang members that will take most of the haul.

Not nearly so likely as it was a senior prank. A horrible one, yes, but much more likely than a 'gang' initiation.

There is pretty much zero chance it is a "senior prank". Not only is the act and potential consequences for the the perpetrators (plausible death) infinitely more similar to gang initiation activity than a "senior prank", but their is almost no chance that most of the perps were "seniors". All sources identify them confidently as "juveniles", which would not be the case if they were 17-18 year old high school seniors. The likely age range is closer to 12-16. Keep in mind that they didn't just rob people, they also assaulted some of them.

While the numbers are big for a typical gang hit, the nature of the act is far closer to that than even the more poorly conceived senior pranks.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Derec almost exclusively uses the term with blacks. Black teens, black criminals, violent black protesters, peaceful black protesters, etc...

I'll gladly recant if someone can show a few examples of him using the word otherwise.

I'd prefer you show an example (just one, if you want.. no need for "a few") of Derec assuming someone was black because they were called a thug, OR of him calling someone a thug because they are black.

I'm not claiming the prior, but saying a derivative of the later.

If you want to say that the word thug is racist...

I didn't say that. I said Derec uses the term very often with blacks he thinks have wronged the world. He does so, so often, that one shouldn't be criticized because they assumed he was using the term to mean "black criminals".

...then that is just exposing your own racism because you are internally associating "criminal" with "black".

Oi vei!

The word "thug" is old.

No kidding really? Kind of like a gangstas were Italian. Yeah, got it. That wasn't the fucking point!

I've been around a long ass time. When I hear the term, I think of mobster types... Like the folks in the IRA.. or the Italian Mafia.
Of the stupid ass use of terms I see around here, this one is the most comical to me.

And I've been here a long time, and when Derec uses the term...

Regarding examples:
Chicago makes more thug families millionaires

#BLM thugs threaten to shut down a high school ...

Based on a review of a search, there are 43 returns on threads by Derec referencing "thugs".

40 - blacks
1 - Greenpeace
1 - Muslims
1 - Hispanics

One final comment, this wasn't to suggest racism or anything... just that Toni referred to Derec's post which mentioned "thugs" and presumed he meant "blacks". She was called on it, but I felt it wasn't an unreasonable leap on her part based on Derec's usage of the word here.

 

[laughing dog]

Not wrong: your well documented use of the term 'thug' has been almost exclusively limited to blacks. I personally cannot think of a single exception but probably you called some Hispanic a thug. Wouldn't be a big surprise. If Jimmy is willing to qualify it with 'almost,' I'll be agreeable and accept that he remembers more than I do.

Derec, maybe you need some sleep or some glasses or something because usually you are not so careless in your reading. This is the second post that I can think of where you clearly misunderstand what the poster you are quoting is writing. I disagree with you far more often than not, but I don't usually think you didn't read something carefully.

Toni, you are being racist by saying that because Derec refers to criminals as thugs, that it must mean that thugs means black people. YOU are the one connecting "criminal" with Black". "Thug" just means "a kind of criminal that acts like a bully in the street".. "a strong arm type".

Derec and few other posters in this forum almost exclusively refer to black criminals as "thugs" while refraining from (and sometimes refusing to) refer to white criminals as thugs. So, your argument, while perhaps well-intentioned, is based on a lack of knowledge.

 

[Toni]

Not nearly so likely as it was a senior prank. A horrible one, yes, but much more likely than a 'gang' initiation.

There is pretty much zero chance it is a "senior prank". Not only is the act and potential consequences for the the perpetrators (plausible death) infinitely more similar to gang initiation activity than a "senior prank", but their is almost no chance that most of the perps were "seniors". All sources identify them confidently as "juveniles", which would not be the case if they were 17-18 year old high school seniors. The likely age range is closer to 12-16. Keep in mind that they didn't just rob people, they also assaulted some of them.

While the numbers are big for a typical gang hit, the nature of the act is far closer to that than even the more poorly conceived senior pranks.

Um, my mother graduated in a class of13 students in a rural Midwest school. She told me about their senior class pranks, which aren't that far off from this, adjusting for time and location.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not nearly so likely as it was a senior prank. A horrible one, yes, but much more likely than a 'gang' initiation.

There is pretty much zero chance it is a "senior prank". Not only is the act and potential consequences for the the perpetrators (plausible death) infinitely more similar to gang initiation activity than a "senior prank", but their is almost no chance that most of the perps were "seniors". All sources identify them confidently as "juveniles", which would not be the case if they were 17-18 year old high school seniors. The likely age range is closer to 12-16. Keep in mind that they didn't just rob people, they also assaulted some of them.

While the numbers are big for a typical gang hit, the nature of the act is far closer to that than even the more poorly conceived senior pranks.

It could be a "prank". Whatever it was, it very was coordinated.

 

[Arctish]

nm

Squirrel and Jimmy already posted what I was going to say.

 

[RavenSky]

Bernie Goetz - acquitted killer and a drug dealer - is more likely to have been part of the swarm rather than part of the solution.

yeah but he's a white guy who shot at black men, so he's Derec's hero

 

[laughing dog]

No, it is not "well documented". In fact, I have repeatedly stated that there are thugs of all races.

That is not what you practice - which is the point. Your posting history of focusing on black "thugs" is well-documented, while ignoring white thugs.

Your OP is a perfect example. Bernard Goetz meets your thug standard (attempted murder and drug dealing charges), yet you refrain (and probably will deny) he is a thug.

 

[Toni]

I'd prefer you show an example (just one, if you want.. no need for "a few") of Derec assuming someone was black because they were called a thug, OR of him calling someone a thug because they are black.

I'm not claiming the prior, but saying a derivative of the later.

If you want to say that the word thug is racist...

I didn't say that. I said Derec uses the term very often with blacks he thinks have wronged the world. He does so, so often, that one shouldn't be criticized because they assumed he was using the term to mean "black criminals".

...then that is just exposing your own racism because you are internally associating "criminal" with "black".

Oi vei!

The word "thug" is old.

No kidding really? Kind of like a gangstas were Italian. Yeah, got it. That wasn't the fucking point!

I've been around a long ass time. When I hear the term, I think of mobster types... Like the folks in the IRA.. or the Italian Mafia.
Of the stupid ass use of terms I see around here, this one is the most comical to me.

And I've been here a long time, and when Derec uses the term...

Regarding examples:
Chicago makes more thug families millionaires

#BLM thugs threaten to shut down a high school ...

Based on a review of a search, there are 43 returns on threads by Derec referencing "thugs".

40 - blacks
1 - Greenpeace
1 - Muslims
1 - Hispanics

One final comment, this wasn't to suggest racism or anything... just that Toni referred to Derec's post which mentioned "thugs" and presumed he meant "blacks". She was called on it, but I felt it wasn't an unreasonable leap on her part based on Derec's usage of the word here.

Thank you.

 

[ronburgundy]

There is pretty much zero chance it is a "senior prank". Not only is the act and potential consequences for the the perpetrators (plausible death) infinitely more similar to gang initiation activity than a "senior prank", but their is almost no chance that most of the perps were "seniors". All sources identify them confidently as "juveniles", which would not be the case if they were 17-18 year old high school seniors. The likely age range is closer to 12-16. Keep in mind that they didn't just rob people, they also assaulted some of them.

While the numbers are big for a typical gang hit, the nature of the act is far closer to that than even the more poorly conceived senior pranks.

Um, my mother graduated in a class of13 students in a rural Midwest school. She told me about their senior class pranks, which aren't that far off from this, adjusting for time and location.

Can you give a specific example? Because otherwise the caveat "adjusting for time and location" sounds like a convenient fudge for "not remotely similar". I google "senior pranks" with words like "crime" and "extreme" and plenty comes up that was deemed newsworthy but nothing remotely similar to mass strong-arm robbery and assault.

Note that to be remotely similar requires acts on par with criminal physical violence against dozens of people in a crowded public place where armed police officers would be very probable. Pranks that merely involve property crimes are not remotely similar.

 

[Malintent]

I'd prefer you show an example (just one, if you want.. no need for "a few") of Derec assuming someone was black because they were called a thug, OR of him calling someone a thug because they are black.

If you want to say that the word thug is racist then that is just exposing your own racism because you are internally associating "criminal" with "black".

The word "thug" is old. been around a long ass time. When I hear the term, I think of mobster types... Like the folks in the IRA.. or the Italian Mafia.
Of the stupid ass use of terms I see around here, this one is the most comical to me.

Knock yourselves out folks.
https://talkfreethought.org/search.php?searchid=558828

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

LOL

 

[Malintent]

I'd prefer you show an example (just one, if you want.. no need for "a few") of Derec assuming someone was black because they were called a thug, OR of him calling someone a thug because they are black.

I'm not claiming the prior, but saying a derivative of the later.

If you want to say that the word thug is racist...

I didn't say that. I said Derec uses the term very often with blacks he thinks have wronged the world. He does so, so often, that one shouldn't be criticized because they assumed he was using the term to mean "black criminals".

...then that is just exposing your own racism because you are internally associating "criminal" with "black".

Oi vei!

The word "thug" is old.

No kidding really? Kind of like a gangstas were Italian. Yeah, got it. That wasn't the fucking point!

I've been around a long ass time. When I hear the term, I think of mobster types... Like the folks in the IRA.. or the Italian Mafia.
Of the stupid ass use of terms I see around here, this one is the most comical to me.

And I've been here a long time, and when Derec uses the term...

Regarding examples:
Chicago makes more thug families millionaires

#BLM thugs threaten to shut down a high school ...

Based on a review of a search, there are 43 returns on threads by Derec referencing "thugs".

40 - blacks
1 - Greenpeace
1 - Muslims
1 - Hispanics

One final comment, this wasn't to suggest racism or anything... just that Toni referred to Derec's post which mentioned "thugs" and presumed he meant "blacks". She was called on it, but I felt it wasn't an unreasonable leap on her part based on Derec's usage of the word here.

I looked at those threads. "Thugs" was in reference to law breakers. That you (and others) find that these lawbreakers are black most of the time does not retroactively make the reference to lawbreakers a reference to black people. That is simply an unfair accusation.

If you told me a story about a group of people that raped a young girl, and I called that group of people a "bunch of dirty pieces of shit", and then later someone pointed out that the group of people were all black, then how can you feel justified in saying that "dirty pieces of shit" was racist.. or was INTENDED to mean "all black people". It is ridiculous.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I looked at those threads. "Thugs" was in reference to law breakers.

People protesting, not law breaking. People who received a settlement, not law breaking.

That you (and others) find that these lawbreakers are black most of the time...

Most of the time? Yeah, that is what I said, he uses that term most of the time with blacks.

...does not retroactively make the reference to lawbreakers a reference to black people. That is simply an unfair accusation.

Unfair accusation? It isn't an accusation, it is an observation.

If you told me a story about a group of people that raped a young girl, and I called that group of people a "bunch of dirty pieces of shit", and then later someone pointed out that the group of people were all black, then how can you feel justified in saying that "dirty pieces of shit" was racist.. or was INTENDED to mean "all black people". It is ridiculous.

I'm not certain how that applies here. I showed that there were 43 threads started by Derec, who referenced the word "thugs". 40 of those threads regarded blacks.

When a gang of well armed white guys took over the Malheur refuge, did Derec use the term "thugs" once? Actually, he immediately derailed the thread about #BLM. In fact, he Derec goes on to equate the BLM occupation with protests by #BLM, yet still doesn't call the armed white guys thugs.

These are honest observations. I'm sorry if you can't see it. Derec uses the word thugs when describing blacks that he thinks have greatly wronged the world, whether the are families of criminals, peaceful protesters, criminals, victims of police violence.

 

[Malintent]

People protesting, not law breaking. People who received a settlement, not law breaking.

That you (and others) find that these lawbreakers are black most of the time...

Most of the time? Yeah, that is what I said, he uses that term most of the time with blacks.

...does not retroactively make the reference to lawbreakers a reference to black people. That is simply an unfair accusation.

Unfair accusation? It isn't an accusation, it is an observation.

If you told me a story about a group of people that raped a young girl, and I called that group of people a "bunch of dirty pieces of shit", and then later someone pointed out that the group of people were all black, then how can you feel justified in saying that "dirty pieces of shit" was racist.. or was INTENDED to mean "all black people". It is ridiculous.

I'm not certain how that applies here. I showed that there were 43 threads started by Derec, who referenced the word "thugs". 40 of those threads regarded blacks.

When a gang of well armed white guys took over the Malheur refuge, did Derec use the term "thugs" once? Actually, he immediately derailed the thread about #BLM. In fact, he Derec goes on to equate the BLM occupation with protests by #BLM, yet still doesn't call the armed white guys thugs.

These are honest observations. I'm sorry if you can't see it. Derec uses the word thugs when describing blacks that he thinks have greatly wronged the world, whether the are families of criminals, peaceful protesters, criminals, victims of police violence.

You aren't comprehending the categorical error you are making, and I am at a loss as to how to communicate it to you.

This is on the level of "all apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples". You get THAT, right?

I suppose if someone pointed out that a particular basket of fruit where all BLACK berries, then suddenly the word "fruit" is racist.

Or if there was a movie theater full of people that were making a lot of noise, and you called the group "noisy".. once the lights came on and you saw that the audience is all black, "noisy" is racist slur.

 

[dismal]

People protesting, not law breaking. People who received a settlement, not law breaking.

That you (and others) find that these lawbreakers are black most of the time...

Most of the time? Yeah, that is what I said, he uses that term most of the time with blacks.

...does not retroactively make the reference to lawbreakers a reference to black people. That is simply an unfair accusation.

Unfair accusation? It isn't an accusation, it is an observation.

If you told me a story about a group of people that raped a young girl, and I called that group of people a "bunch of dirty pieces of shit", and then later someone pointed out that the group of people were all black, then how can you feel justified in saying that "dirty pieces of shit" was racist.. or was INTENDED to mean "all black people". It is ridiculous.

I'm not certain how that applies here. I showed that there were 43 threads started by Derec, who referenced the word "thugs". 40 of those threads regarded blacks.

When a gang of well armed white guys took over the Malheur refuge, did Derec use the term "thugs" once? Actually, he immediately derailed the thread about #BLM. In fact, he Derec goes on to equate the BLM occupation with protests by #BLM, yet still doesn't call the armed white guys thugs.

These are honest observations. I'm sorry if you can't see it. Derec uses the word thugs when describing blacks that he thinks have greatly wronged the world, whether the are families of criminals, peaceful protesters, criminals, victims of police violence.

Tip: we are now, at this very moment, in the midst of a discussion wherein Derec used the word "thug" to describe people whose race he certainly did not know.

If you assumed the thugs in question are black because it was Derec that's on you.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

People protesting, not law breaking. People who received a settlement, not law breaking.
Most of the time? Yeah, that is what I said, he uses that term most of the time with blacks.

...does not retroactively make the reference to lawbreakers a reference to black people. That is simply an unfair accusation.

Unfair accusation? It isn't an accusation, it is an observation.

If you told me a story about a group of people that raped a young girl, and I called that group of people a "bunch of dirty pieces of shit", and then later someone pointed out that the group of people were all black, then how can you feel justified in saying that "dirty pieces of shit" was racist.. or was INTENDED to mean "all black people". It is ridiculous.

I'm not certain how that applies here. I showed that there were 43 threads started by Derec, who referenced the word "thugs". 40 of those threads regarded blacks.

When a gang of well armed white guys took over the Malheur refuge, did Derec use the term "thugs" once? Actually, he immediately derailed the thread about #BLM. In fact, he Derec goes on to equate the BLM occupation with protests by #BLM, yet still doesn't call the armed white guys thugs.

These are honest observations. I'm sorry if you can't see it. Derec uses the word thugs when describing blacks that he thinks have greatly wronged the world, whether the are families of criminals, peaceful protesters, criminals, victims of police violence.

You aren't comprehending the categorical error you are making, and I am at a loss as to how to communicate it to you.

This is on the level of "all apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples". You get THAT, right?

I suppose if someone pointed out that a particular basket of fruit where all BLACK berries, then suddenly the word "fruit" is racist.

There is that word again "racist". I already stated that I did not make a claim of racism, that this was merely an observation that in most occasions, when Derec used the word "thugs" he was referring to 'blacks that he has thought had harmed the world', and that carries a wide spectrum of blacks. This statement is a fact, I demonstrated it, 40 of the 43 threads he started that used the term "thugs" referred to blacks (families of criminals, victims of police violence, criminals, peaceful protestors, violent protestors).

Toni believed that Derec was talking about blacks when he used the term "thugs". The evidence presented indicates that it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion, even if it was mistaken.

People have wasted too much time to suggest otherwise.

 

[laughing dog]

People protesting, not law breaking. People who received a settlement, not law breaking.
Most of the time? Yeah, that is what I said, he uses that term most of the time with blacks.

...does not retroactively make the reference to lawbreakers a reference to black people. That is simply an unfair accusation.

Unfair accusation? It isn't an accusation, it is an observation.

If you told me a story about a group of people that raped a young girl, and I called that group of people a "bunch of dirty pieces of shit", and then later someone pointed out that the group of people were all black, then how can you feel justified in saying that "dirty pieces of shit" was racist.. or was INTENDED to mean "all black people". It is ridiculous.

I'm not certain how that applies here. I showed that there were 43 threads started by Derec, who referenced the word "thugs". 40 of those threads regarded blacks.

When a gang of well armed white guys took over the Malheur refuge, did Derec use the term "thugs" once? Actually, he immediately derailed the thread about #BLM. In fact, he Derec goes on to equate the BLM occupation with protests by #BLM, yet still doesn't call the armed white guys thugs.

These are honest observations. I'm sorry if you can't see it. Derec uses the word thugs when describing blacks that he thinks have greatly wronged the world, whether the are families of criminals, peaceful protesters, criminals, victims of police violence.

Tip: we are now, at this very moment, in the midst of a discussion wherein Derec used the word "thug" to describe people whose race he certainly did not know.

You assume that you know that
1) Derec did not certainly know the race of the attackers,
2) Derec did not make an assumption about the race of the attackers.

If you assumed the thugs in question are black because it was Derec that's on you.

At least there is a well-documented history to support the reasonableness of that assumption.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If you assumed the thugs in question are black because it was Derec that's on you.

At least there is a well-documented history to support the reasonableness of that assumption.

Exactly! It could have been a mistaken understanding, but Derec's track record is obvious.