White college students: riot and destroy property. Police: “Meh.”

[Metaphor]

Yes, I hope everyone who destroyed property, rapes, pillages, or otherwise committed a crime gets caught and punished. Don't you feel the same?

Yes, Meta, yes I do. I wish every single bit of malicious mischief, vandalism, arson and every other form of intentional property damage was justly punished.
But I do not agree that if it's a BLM protest and the local police feds etc. bash a few heads, tear gas them ALL, arrest a few dozen just for being there when a tiny fraction of the cause Property Damage - that it's proper or just treatment. Most of all I don't agree that it's worse than murder.
Do you?

If you can invent tear gas that selectively affects the people in a crowd who are rioting but avoids the ones who are not, you should patent it. It'll make a lot of money.

As for calling property damage worse than murder, I have no idea why you think I claimed that.

 

[KeepTalking]

A useful illustration of what would happen if you defunded the police.

What an idiotic comment.

This is only a useful illustration of what is happening right now without defunding the police.

Things that are happening without defunding police in no way illustrate what would happen if you defund police.

Sure they do. Defund the police and the police will not show up sometimes.

This ignores the fact that they are not showing up for a fucking riot, and they are fully funded. If they are not going to show up for a fucking riot, as shown in this example, why the fuck are we funding them in the first place?

This is an example of what is happening when you overfund police, and make them unaccountable for their actions (or lack thereof).

 

[Metaphor]

Sure they do. Defund the police and the police will not show up sometimes.

This ignores the fact that they are not showing up for a fucking riot, and they are fully funded. If they are not going to show up for a fucking riot, as shown in this example, why the fuck are we funding them in the first place?

This is an example of what is happening when you overfund police, and make them unaccountable for their actions (or lack thereof).

I didn't mention police not being accountable.

You are funding police because in the absence of police you would have permanent anarchy.

The example stands: this shit happens when police don't show up.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, the PROPERTY DAMAGE is BLM's fault.

Funny how property damage to you leftists is only a problem when football fans or right wingers do it.

TO have posted here for as long as you have and to literally think that this is the position of those that post here shows a dramatic deficiency is either reading comprehension or a terribly apathetic care of what those you discuss with actually think.

 

[Elixir]

As for calling property damage worse than murder, I have no idea why you think I claimed that.

I did not state that you made such a claim, I asked a question. The reason I asked is because you seemed to be lining up with *another poster* who has refused to ever state that murder is worse than


I do have to wonder why you didn't answer the question.

 

[Metaphor]

As for calling property damage worse than murder, I have no idea why you think I claimed that.

I did not state that you made such a claim, I asked a question. The reason I asked is because you seemed to be lining up with *another poster* who has refused to ever state that murder is worse than
View attachment 33098

I do have to wonder why you didn't answer the question.

I didn't answer the question because I assumed the question was entirely rhetorical; the question was an accusation. I don't know the history of this "question" you have with some other poster, but I sure as hell don't expect to be asked if I think property damage is worse than murder out of the blue.

 

[KeepTalking]

Sure they do. Defund the police and the police will not show up sometimes.

This ignores the fact that they are not showing up for a fucking riot, and they are fully funded. If they are not going to show up for a fucking riot, as shown in this example, why the fuck are we funding them in the first place?

This is an example of what is happening when you overfund police, and make them unaccountable for their actions (or lack thereof).

I didn't mention police not being accountable.

So? You aren't conversing with yourself, you know. This is an example of what happens when they are not held accountable, among other things. What it is not an example of is the thing you said it was an example of.

You are funding police because in the absence of police you would have permanent anarchy.

This is an example of police being funded, and allowing anarchy. If they were held accountable for that, perhaps it would stop happening. If we are not going to hold them accountable when they do not do their job, then we are wasting money by funding them, and should reconsider how much they are funded.

The example stands: this shit happens when police don't show up.

Police not showing up when they are fully funded is not an example of police not showing up when they are defunded and held accountable for the job they have been funded to do.

Your example remains invalid.

 

[Bronzeage]

The police should have come earlier, and I hope they are successful in prosecuting the property damagers. A useful illustration of what would happen if you defunded the police.

'Defund the police' would not hamper their ability to respond to this in any way.

Of course it would. Defund the police means fewer police. Fewer police means more crime.

Every single person who called for defunding the police has blood on their hands--the blood of the hundreds of extra homicides that occurred because of fewer police.

How many crimes have you refrained from committing, because of the existence of the police? If the police ceased to exist, how would this improve your standard of living?

 

[Gun Nut]

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news...ave-students-angry-wanting-answers/7284583002

Taras, an Ohio State senior studying strategic communications and business, had been hanging out at her neighbor's house on Chittenden Avenue while nearly 1,000 students partied outside their door at "ChittFest," an annual block party held the day of OSU's spring football game.

“The police dispatcher told me, and I quote, 'They have other things to worry about and they'll come down when it's safe for them,'" said Taras, 22, of Cleveland. "I'm really disappointed there were no police there."

Students such as Taras are still angry that police officers didn't respond sooner. She wondered why officers didn't respond to students destroying property the same way they responded to Black Lives Matter protesters over the summer.

"What does that have to say about this summer? People were peacefully protesting and got pepper sprayed. People flip cars on campus and nothing. No repercussions, no arrests," Taras said.

Damage to buildng, cars and people.
But, don’t worry, they were white.

.. and not "rioting"... and on private property (campus) that have their own security that is apparently used to this annual tradition.

 

[Elixir]

This is an example of police being funded, and allowing anarchy. If they were held accountable for that, perhaps it would stop happening.

Yeah, that. "De-funding" may or may not be the most effective way to ensure accountability, but that's beside the point.
"De-fund" is just a trigger word that Republicans will be leveraging going forward, to scare their terrified weenie constituency into keeping them in office.

 

[laughing dog]

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news...ave-students-angry-wanting-answers/7284583002

Taras, an Ohio State senior studying strategic communications and business, had been hanging out at her neighbor's house on Chittenden Avenue while nearly 1,000 students partied outside their door at "ChittFest," an annual block party held the day of OSU's spring football game.

“The police dispatcher told me, and I quote, 'They have other things to worry about and they'll come down when it's safe for them,'" said Taras, 22, of Cleveland. "I'm really disappointed there were no police there."

Students such as Taras are still angry that police officers didn't respond sooner. She wondered why officers didn't respond to students destroying property the same way they responded to Black Lives Matter protesters over the summer.

"What does that have to say about this summer? People were peacefully protesting and got pepper sprayed. People flip cars on campus and nothing. No repercussions, no arrests," Taras said.

Damage to buildng, cars and people.
But, don’t worry, they were white.

.. and not "rioting"... and on private property (campus) that have their own security that is apparently used to this annual tradition.

No, if you read the snippet, the partying was outside of a neighbor's house.

Oh, and if you think that campus security is necessarily equipped or competent to deal with such crowds, you are mistaken.

 

[Metaphor]

I didn't mention police not being accountable.

So? You aren't conversing with yourself, you know. This is an example of what happens when they are not held accountable, among other things. What it is not an example of is the thing you said it was an example of.

You are funding police because in the absence of police you would have permanent anarchy.

This is an example of police being funded, and allowing anarchy. If they were held accountable for that, perhaps it would stop happening. If we are not going to hold them accountable when they do not do their job, then we are wasting money by funding them, and should reconsider how much they are funded.

The example stands: this shit happens when police don't show up.

Police not showing up when they are fully funded is not an example of police not showing up when they are defunded and held accountable for the job they have been funded to do.

Your example remains invalid.

Advocate for abolition then. I'm sure the blood on your hands doesn't bother you.

 

[Metaphor]

How many crimes have you refrained from committing, because of the existence of the police? If the police ceased to exist, how would this improve your standard of living?

If the police ceased to exist, people would be unaccountable for their crimes, and many more would be committed.

Many many years ago, when I joined this board, I had a bee in my bonnet about how insanely stupid libertarian anarchism was, with their proposal for "private" justice systems to replace public ones.

The calls for abolishing police are now coming instead from the hard lunatic non-libertarian left, with useful idiots on the mainstream left mindlessly echoing the sentiment.

Let's have a city in America actually defund the police for a year. Advertise to the world that no police will operate in the city. Prove that defunding the police is a good idea.

 

[Elixir]

The calls for abolishing police are now coming instead from the hard lunatic non-libertarian left

Can you link to one example where anyone here is calling for abolishing police? Anywhere else?
(HINT: de-fund is not a synonym for "abolish")

I have no doubt that such folks could exist; I just don't know of any, like you do.
I'd agree that they'd be pretty far out there in lala land if they're actually real.
Low-hanging fruit for an intellectual powerhouse like yourself.

 

[Metaphor]

Can you link to one example where anyone here is calling for abolishing police? Anywhere else?
(HINT: de-fund is not a synonym for "abolish")

Definition of defund


transitive verb
: to withdraw funding from

If 'defunding' means withdrawing all funding, then defunding means abolition.

To the extent 'defunding' means withdrawing funding and reducing the number of police, then it means a consequent rise in crime that the previous number of police would have obviated. 'Defund hospitals' (in a country where there are publically funded hospitals like Australia) would result in more lives lost as a function of the amount of defunding.

I have no doubt that such folks could exist; I just don't know of any, like you do.

They not only exist, they exist in the highest reaches of power, like Congresswoman Rashida "do I look white to you" Tlaib:

It wasn't an accident. Policing in our country is inherently & intentionally racist. Daunte Wright was met with aggression & violence. I am done with those who condone government funded murder. No more policing, incarceration, and militarization. It can't be reformed.

Lucky for America, Rashida Tlaib's mindless impulse to destroy America will be rejected by Americans.

I'd agree that they'd be pretty far out there in lala land if they're actually real.
Low-hanging fruit for an intellectual powerhouse like yourself.

The ordinary meaning of 'defund' is to withdraw funding from. To defund the police is to abolish it. If you don't want your sentiment to be misunderstood you shouldn't use language likely to lead to misunderstanding.

But even partial defunding is likely to lead to increasing crime (if not total chaos).
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/02/the-deadly-consequences-of-defund-the-police/

Like all publically funded goods, politicians have to make a decision about how much money they spend for the public good they get. At one point, throwing more money at policing will not result in fewer crimes committed. And when you withdraw funding, there will be more crimes committed. That might be acceptable if you think the public gain (in taxpayer money saved) is worth the cost (of additional crimes being committed).

 

[KeepTalking]

So? You aren't conversing with yourself, you know. This is an example of what happens when they are not held accountable, among other things. What it is not an example of is the thing you said it was an example of.



This is an example of police being funded, and allowing anarchy. If they were held accountable for that, perhaps it would stop happening. If we are not going to hold them accountable when they do not do their job, then we are wasting money by funding them, and should reconsider how much they are funded.

The example stands: this shit happens when police don't show up.

Police not showing up when they are fully funded is not an example of police not showing up when they are defunded and held accountable for the job they have been funded to do.

Your example remains invalid.

Advocate for abolition then.

No thanks. I generally do not advocate for things I don't want to happen. I would, however, like to advocate for examples of what happens when you defund police to be actual examples of what happens when you defund police.

I'm sure the blood on your hands doesn't bother you.

Well now, that's not overly dramatic at all...

 

[Bronzeage]

How many crimes have you refrained from committing, because of the existence of the police? If the police ceased to exist, how would this improve your standard of living?

If the police ceased to exist, people would be unaccountable for their crimes, and many more would be committed.

Many many years ago, when I joined this board, I had a bee in my bonnet about how insanely stupid libertarian anarchism was, with their proposal for "private" justice systems to replace public ones.

The calls for abolishing police are now coming instead from the hard lunatic non-libertarian left, with useful idiots on the mainstream left mindlessly echoing the sentiment.

Let's have a city in America actually defund the police for a year. Advertise to the world that no police will operate in the city. Prove that defunding the police is a good idea.

That's not an answer to the question. I'll ask again, if the police could not make you accountable, what crimes would you commit?

 

[Metaphor]

I would, however, like to advocate for examples of what happens when you defund police to be actual examples of what happens when you defund police.

If you defund the police, fewer or no police will be available to go to situations such as the one in the OP.

Well now, that's not overly dramatic at all...

Reductions in the police force lead to increased crime, including violent crime.

 

[Metaphor]

How many crimes have you refrained from committing, because of the existence of the police? If the police ceased to exist, how would this improve your standard of living?

If the police ceased to exist, people would be unaccountable for their crimes, and many more would be committed.

Many many years ago, when I joined this board, I had a bee in my bonnet about how insanely stupid libertarian anarchism was, with their proposal for "private" justice systems to replace public ones.

The calls for abolishing police are now coming instead from the hard lunatic non-libertarian left, with useful idiots on the mainstream left mindlessly echoing the sentiment.

Let's have a city in America actually defund the police for a year. Advertise to the world that no police will operate in the city. Prove that defunding the police is a good idea.

That's not an answer to the question. I'll ask again, if the police could not make you accountable, what crimes would you commit?

It depends on what you mean by 'the police'. If there was no State apparatus to enforce trans ideology, for example, I would probably feel okay to say 'trans women are men' on social media. At the moment in Australia, the State could punish me for saying that. But those complaints are handled by tribunals and not the police as such.

As for crimes the police would ordinarily attend? None.

 

[KeepTalking]

I would, however, like to advocate for examples of what happens when you defund police to be actual examples of what happens when you defund police.

If you defund the police, fewer or no police will be available to go to situations such as the one in the OP.

That is not an example, it is a statement.

Well now, that's not overly dramatic at all...

Reductions in the police force lead to increased crime, including violent crime.

Since I have not said anything about reductions in the police force, I suppose I don't have to worry about washing the blood off my hands now.