Why do Christians outnumber atheists?

[Emily Lake]

There are two main reasons why religionists outnumber atheists. I'm just gonna go ahead and skip over the specificity of "christians" for this, because at the end of the day, the exact nature of the supernatural entity involved is pretty much irrelevant.

The first reason is psychological. Religion is an element of culture, and it's instilled pretty early in childhood. It goes into the same basket as a myriad of other unquestioned assumptions about how the word works, how people are expected to interact, and the roles we each play within our society. It's learned at a very young age. And unless something directly challenges or disrupts that assumption, it doesn't change. It's part of the underlying routine. We all have routines, we all do a lot less active decision making than we like to think. We use an assumption or a rule of thumb, and unless that fails in action, we just keep doing it over and over and over.

People change religions in times of stress. That can be personal stress or social. Sometimes it's a minor shift, like my MiL changing from a presbyterian to a lutheran church when my nephew came out as gay. The lutheran church she attended was not accepting of homosexuality, and for most of her life, neither was my MiL. Not through any actual dislike, but simply because that's what the assumption was, that's what she had learned, and she just kept rolling with it. To her, homosexuality was a sin. But my nephew wasn't a sinner, he's a good person, she loves him. Her view of her grandson couldn't be reconciled with the view of her church. So she changed her assumptions and also changed churches. Sometimes the changes are more dramatic, changing religions entirely rather than just sects.

A whole lot of the atheists out there grew up within a religion. And if you listen to their stories, there's frequently a stressor involved in them leaving their religions and rejection the existence of deities entirely. But it goes the other direction too - lots of people have no religion until a stressor arises, and they need an explanation, a reason that justifies the stressor, and they turn to religion.

This brings me to the second main reason, which is evolutionary. We evolved a very strong pattern finding tendency. Please note that I said "pattern finding" not "pattern recognition". This is important here, because we have a high probability of false positives. That's how we end up with faces on Mars.

Part of that pattern finding tendency is that our conscious mind is prompted to seek explanations for the patterns that our subconscious finds - even when those patterns are illusory. When our conscious mind cannot identify an explanation, we tend to experience anxiety. Often, that anxiety is minor, but not always, and it varies by person and by situation. That need for an explanation for a perceived pattern is at the root of mathematics and science... but it's also at the root of religion. As our understanding of the natural world grows, as our foundation of math and science expands, the role of religion is reduced. Even if it's not entirely eradicated, the role that religious entities play in our daily lives has dropped significantly as we've found non-illusory explanations for the patterns we see around us.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

How do you even begin to measure the numbers of Christians?

You sure don't do it by asking them if they are "christian." You may as well ask them if they are "good looking" or "have problems" or some other wholly subjective question. The only measure of the word is to quantify it first and then observe individual behavior. Good luck getting a meaningful definition that translates into behavior when it comes to religion.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Have a blessed day Soldier.

You are so kind and patient I can see why you were so good in the nursing biz.
Tom

Irony. "Blessed" has an interesting etymology. Actually not so interesting when you think about it.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Here's what one source has to say:

In 2019, a Pew study found that 65% of American adults described themselves as Christians while the religiously unaffiliated, including atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular”, is 26%. According to a 2018 Pew report, 72% of the "Nones" have belief in God, a higher power, or spiritual force.

If you ask atheists why they are outnumbered, they'll typically explain their being in the minority results from the tendency of people to be irrational and superstitious. They'll tell you that atheism does not offer hope of immortality, miracles, or revelations, and lonely, hurting, insecure people need these things to find a way through life.

But there are other reasons there are so few atheists and so many Christians. Perhaps Christian apologetics convinces Christians that they are right to believe in God and the Bible. Besides, atheism does not have a good history or at least atheists do not have a good history. Stalin, for example, did far more evil than any Christian ever did.

So it really shouldn't be too hard to understand why Christianity is in the mainstream of society and atheism on the fringeT

Your first paragraph - Seriously, If you ask atheists a question about demographics -no one is going to go into the song and dance you outlined. That conversation just happened in your own head.

You evidently haven't bothered to ask any atheists what they think about the religious. There's tons of material on the internet to back up what I said. Here's but one source, Atheist criticisms of religion, that you didn't look for:

Not all atheists are hostile to religion, but many do think that religion is bad. Here are some of their reasons:

• Religion gets people to believe something untrue.
• Religion makes people base the way they run their lives on a falsehood.
• Religion stops people thinking in a rational and objective way.
• Religion forces people to rely on outside authority, rather than becoming self-reliant.
• Religion imposes irrational rules of good and bad behaviour.
• Religion divides people, and is a cause of conflict and war.
• The hierarchical structure of most religions is anti-democratic, and thus offends basic human rights.
• Religion doesn't give equal treatment to women and gay people, and thus offends basic human rights.
• Religion obstructs scientific research.
• Religion wastes time and money.

Notice the point of agreement between what I said and what the BBC article says.

Your opening premise is pretty far-fetched.

Speaking of far-fetched, why in the world are you denying what any informed person knows is true? You're evidently upset about something. What nerve did I hit?

 

[James Brown]

Couldn't the same thing have been said in the first few hundred years after the life of Jesus? Except, why are Christians so few and pagans so numerous?

One could argue that if Christianity was all that, then why did it take so long to become a dominant world religion? And need a major boost from an emperor? And need to spread its gospel at the point of a spear?

For that matter, why don't the hundreds and hundreds of Christian denominations refuse to agree on even the basic tenets of their faith? If there were three thousand ways to calculate the area of a triangle, wouldn't that tell us something about the validity of geometry?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Religion is an element of culture, and it's instilled pretty early in childhood. It goes into the same basket as a myriad of other unquestioned assumptions about how the word works, how people are expected to interact, and the roles we each play within our society. It's learned at a very young age. And unless something directly challenges or disrupts that assumption, it doesn't change. It's part of the underlying routine. We all have routines, we all do a lot less active decision making than we like to think. We use an assumption or a rule of thumb, and unless that fails in action, we just keep doing it over and over and over.

I agree that what you're saying here is part of how we are socialized in whatever culture we grow up in, but I don't see much religion in it.

People change religions in times of stress.

Changing religious belief isn't really on topic. Why do people have any religion, and why is religion much more common than atheism?

A whole lot of the atheists out there grew up within a religion. And if you listen to their stories, there's frequently a stressor involved in them leaving their religions and rejection the existence of deities entirely. But it goes the other direction too - lots of people have no religion until a stressor arises, and they need an explanation, a reason that justifies the stressor, and they turn to religion.

You seem to agree here with what I said in the OP about atheists' attitude toward religion: "...lonely, hurting, insecure people need these things (hope of immortality, etc.) to find a way through life." That was Freud's view, and we should not be too surprised that most people prefer hope to overcome death--something that atheism doesn't really offer.

This brings me to the second main reason, which is evolutionary. We evolved a very strong pattern finding tendency. Please note that I said "pattern finding" not "pattern recognition". This is important here, because we have a high probability of false positives. That's how we end up with faces on Mars.

OK. I've heard this explanation for religion before. It does appear that our evolution has favored theism over atheism. Those "patterns" in nature you refer to are perhaps what most people interpret as conscious agency acting in the cosmos that became part of our thinking when our brains became capable of abstract thought. In other words theism might be "abstract thinking run amok" which is the downside of a good survival trait.

Part of that pattern finding tendency is that our conscious mind is prompted to seek explanations for the patterns that our subconscious finds - even when those patterns are illusory. When our conscious mind cannot identify an explanation, we tend to experience anxiety. Often, that anxiety is minor, but not always, and it varies by person and by situation. That need for an explanation for a perceived pattern is at the root of mathematics and science... but it's also at the root of religion. As our understanding of the natural world grows, as our foundation of math and science expands, the role of religion is reduced. Even if it's not entirely eradicated, the role that religious entities play in our daily lives has dropped significantly as we've found non-illusory explanations for the patterns we see around us.

But why have we arrived at Gods and miracles as explanations for patterns more often than nonreligious explanations? It's interesting how that option is going out of style--or at least it looks that way.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Couldn't the same thing have been said in the first few hundred years after the life of Jesus? Except, why are Christians so few and pagans so numerous?

Sure. I suppose most pagans at that time would answer that Christianity was a perverse religion.

One could argue that if Christianity was all that, then why did it take so long to become a dominant world religion? And need a major boost from an emperor? And need to spread its gospel at the point of a spear?

So are you saying that Christians outnumber atheists because Christians have used more military force and political power to increase their numbers than atheists have?

For that matter, why don't the hundreds and hundreds of Christian denominations refuse to agree on even the basic tenets of their faith? If there were three thousand ways to calculate the area of a triangle, wouldn't that tell us something about the validity of geometry?

But atheists also disagree over why no Gods exist and why miracle claims are false. Yes, disagreement among theists tends to raise doubt about their claims, but like atheists, it could be that some theists are just getting the details wrong.

 

[Emily Lake]

But why have we arrived at Gods and miracles as explanations for patterns more often than nonreligious explanations? It's interesting how that option is going out of style--or at least it looks that way.

It's all the same. "I can't find an explanation, therefore the cause must be supernatural". Many will call that "god", others will call it magic, or ghosts, the influence of our departed ancestors.

If you look into the history of mysticism and religion throughout human history, there's a pattern there . The earliest belief sets were naturalistic, it was anthropomorphism of natural phenomenon. The Sun and the Moon have minds, and govern most of our lives. The West Wind brings spring, the Stag and the Rabbit bring rebirth and renewal. Aspects of the seasons and the weather were the deities. As our understanding of nature grew, and we recognized the Stag as just a deer and the Moon as just a celestial body, we replaced those nature deities with ones that embodied aspects of human psychology interacting via the natural world. Amon Ra drives the sun across the sky; Venus engenders lust within our souls; Persephone's curiosity drives the changing of the seasons. And again, as our scientific knowledge grew, our gods changed. The multitudinous pantheons began to be replaced by a concept of god based on the embodiment of morality, the conflict of good and evil, right and wrong. For most in the Western world, that ends up being one of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic sects, but it also included Zoroastrianism. For many in the Eastern world, that concept was captured via Buddhism, Taoism, and other non-theistic philosophies. Some might be inclined to place the concept of Karma in that same category.

As our understanding of the world, the cosmos, and ourselves continues to expand, I expect that our notion of the supernatural will adapt. There's no particular end to the question of "why", there will always be some unknown. And as long as there's an unknown, there's likely to be a tendency to fill that gap with a supernatural answer. The more our knowledge grows, the more abstract and less interventional that "god" will become. I doubt it will ever completely go away completely. Even if there are many who reject the notion of an embodied entity like Jehovah, the unknown will remain. And as long as the unknown remains, our pattern-finding brains are probably going to create abstract forces to explain them.

How else do you explain Scientology?

 

[Emily Lake]

So are you saying that Christians outnumber atheists because Christians have used more military force and political power to increase their numbers than atheists have?

Well, yes. I would think that was obvious.

That's not to say that somehow atheists are more peaceful than religionists, we're no less and no more human in that regard. That said, however, there's no motivation to crusade, to convert, to pogrom. Without a god that demands adherence, there's no prod to force others to bow to the will of that god.

That could change in the future. Humans are humans, after all. Our drive to tribalism and conformity is pretty strong, as it is with pretty much all mammals.

 

[Bronzeage]

Everybody loves an argument with undefinable terms.

What is a Christian, what is an atheist, and are we talking about the Christian/Atheist ratio in the solar system, planet Earth, or just sinking ships?

I'm not going to explore the motives of powerful people of the past who did bad things as that is a completely futile exercise. I will offer an explanation of why Christians seem to outnumber atheists, by whatever definition of those terms one imagines.

It starts with a cage and in the cage are six monkeys. A bunch of bananas hang from the high ceiling of the cage. The monkeys can't reach the bananas, but there are several crates in the cage. The smartest monkey stacks the crates and is just about to reach the bananas when nozzles in the walls spray ice cold water on all the monkeys. This is quite disturbing, but when the spray is turned off, another monkey tries to stack the crates, with the same result. Nobody is happy, but they understand the bananas are not worth getting hosed with ice water.

Now, the experiment begins.

One monkey is removed and another monkey is put in the cage. He immediately notices the bananas and starts pushing a crate to the center of the cage. Five monkeys jump on him and beat the shit out of him. After awhile, another monkey is swapped for a new monkey. The scenario is the same. Eventually, all six original monkeys have been replaced and none of the present monkeys have ever seen the nozzles spray ice water. Yet, the pattern continues and when a new monkey who tries to get the bananas, he is beaten by the others.

The hypothesis which explains this is "tradition". "That's the way we've always done it" is sufficient to explain most of human history and almost all of human behavior.

There are more Christians than atheists because that's the way we've always done it. It's really not that complicated.

 

[bilby]

I agree that what you're saying here is part of how we are socialized in whatever culture we grow up in, but I don't see much religion in it.

Then how do you explain the fact that religions tend to be concentrated in distinct geographical areas?

If religion wasn't a simple result of childhood indoctrination, then why would it be possible to identify Christian, (or Islamic, or Shinto, etc., etc.,) majority regions? Why do the children of Islamic parents almost invariably choose to be Muslims, rather than becoming Christians?

 

[laughing dog]

But atheists also disagree over why no Gods exist

The only time nonexistence requires an explanation is when there is evidence of prior existence. Since atheists do not belief Gods never existed, they have no need for an explanation for the nonexistence.

Your claim is illogical.

 

[James Brown]

Yeah, I can't quite figure out how people can disagree on how something doesn't exist.

Now people can disagree on others' claims that something exists. That makes sense. "He's lying." "He's confused." "She's just repeating what she's heard." etc.

But then again. arguing over whether why something does not exist is not evidence for that something's existence.

 

[JohnG]

Here's what one source has to say:

In 2019, a Pew study found that 65% of American adults described themselves as Christians while the religiously unaffiliated, including atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular”, is 26%. According to a 2018 Pew report, 72% of the "Nones" have belief in God, a higher power, or spiritual force.

If you ask atheists why they are outnumbered, they'll typically explain their being in the minority results from the tendency of people to be irrational and superstitious. They'll tell you that atheism does not offer hope of immortality, miracles, or revelations, and lonely, hurting, insecure people need these things to find a way through life.

But there are other reasons there are so few atheists and so many Christians. Perhaps Christian apologetics convinces Christians that they are right to believe in God and the Bible. Besides, atheism does not have a good history or at least atheists do not have a good history. Stalin, for example, did far more evil than any Christian ever did.

So it really shouldn't be too hard to understand why Christianity is in the mainstream of society and atheism on the fringeT

Your first paragraph - Seriously, If you ask atheists a question about demographics -no one is going to go into the song and dance you outlined. That conversation just happened in your own head.

You evidently haven't bothered to ask any atheists what they think about the religious. There's tons of material on the internet to back up what I said. Here's but one source, Atheist criticisms of religion, that you didn't look for:

Not all atheists are hostile to religion, but many do think that religion is bad. Here are some of their reasons:

• Religion gets people to believe something untrue.
• Religion makes people base the way they run their lives on a falsehood.
• Religion stops people thinking in a rational and objective way.
• Religion forces people to rely on outside authority, rather than becoming self-reliant.
• Religion imposes irrational rules of good and bad behaviour.
• Religion divides people, and is a cause of conflict and war.
• The hierarchical structure of most religions is anti-democratic, and thus offends basic human rights.
• Religion doesn't give equal treatment to women and gay people, and thus offends basic human rights.
• Religion obstructs scientific research.
• Religion wastes time and money.

Notice the point of agreement between what I said and what the BBC article says.

Your opening premise is pretty far-fetched.

Speaking of far-fetched, why in the world are you denying what any informed person knows is true? You're evidently upset about something. What nerve did I hit?

You're opening statement doesn't ask the question "Why do Atheists think religion is bad" It asks the question "Why are there so many Christians" - that's a completely different question and you will get a completely different answer than the one you predicted.

You may get answers like the ones you listed if you asked "Why is religion bad" - but that's not the same question.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Here's what one source has to say:

In 2019, a Pew study found that 65% of American adults described themselves as Christians while the religiously unaffiliated, including atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular”, is 26%. According to a 2018 Pew report, 72% of the "Nones" have belief in God, a higher power, or spiritual force.

If you ask atheists why they are outnumbered, they'll typically explain their being in the minority results from the tendency of people to be irrational and superstitious. They'll tell you that atheism does not offer hope of immortality, miracles, or revelations, and lonely, hurting, insecure people need these things to find a way through life.

But there are other reasons there are so few atheists and so many Christians. Perhaps Christian apologetics convinces Christians that they are right to believe in God and the Bible. Besides, atheism does not have a good history or at least atheists do not have a good history. Stalin, for example, did far more evil than any Christian ever did.

So it really shouldn't be too hard to understand why Christianity is in the mainstream of society and atheism on the fringeT

Your first paragraph - Seriously, If you ask atheists a question about demographics -no one is going to go into the song and dance you outlined. That conversation just happened in your own head.

You evidently haven't bothered to ask any atheists what they think about the religious. There's tons of material on the internet to back up what I said. Here's but one source, Atheist criticisms of religion, that you didn't look for:

Not all atheists are hostile to religion, but many do think that religion is bad. Here are some of their reasons:

• Religion gets people to believe something untrue.
• Religion makes people base the way they run their lives on a falsehood.
• Religion stops people thinking in a rational and objective way.
• Religion forces people to rely on outside authority, rather than becoming self-reliant.
• Religion imposes irrational rules of good and bad behaviour.
• Religion divides people, and is a cause of conflict and war.
• The hierarchical structure of most religions is anti-democratic, and thus offends basic human rights.
• Religion doesn't give equal treatment to women and gay people, and thus offends basic human rights.
• Religion obstructs scientific research.
• Religion wastes time and money.

Notice the point of agreement between what I said and what the BBC article says.

Your opening premise is pretty far-fetched.

Speaking of far-fetched, why in the world are you denying what any informed person knows is true? You're evidently upset about something. What nerve did I hit?

You're opening statement doesn't ask the question "Why do Atheists think religion is bad" It asks the question "Why are there so many Christians" - that's a completely different question and you will get a completely different answer than the one you predicted.

I didn't state that atheists think that religion is "bad" but that atheists think they lack the tendency of most people to be religious. So what I posted about atheists is very relevant to the question regarding why Christians outnumber atheists.

You may get answers like the ones you listed if you asked "Why is religion bad" - but that's not the same question.

You read the "bad" part in to what I said about the reasons atheists see themselves as a minority.

In any case, you are splitting hairs. If you wish to participate in this discussion, then please address the topic: Why do Christians outnumber atheists?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

500 A.D. -- "Why do so many flat-earthers outnumber non-flat-earthers?" by Roman philosopher VeritasSeekicus

 

[Unknown Soldier]

500 A.D. -- "Why do so many flat-earthers outnumber non-flat-earthers?" by Roman philosopher VeritasSeekicus

I think I can now see why so many of the atheists here are getting upset: They're objecting to the apparent fallacy that the majority is right. I'm not arguing that Christians are right because they outnumber atheists, of course. But we must wonder!

 

[Unknown Soldier]

But atheists also disagree over why no Gods exist

The only time nonexistence requires an explanation is when there is evidence of prior existence. Since atheists do not belief Gods never existed, they have no need for an explanation for the nonexistence.

Your claim is illogical.

Can you offer an explanation for why those who believe in the Christian God greatly outnumber atheists?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

500 A.D. -- "Why do so many flat-earthers outnumber non-flat-earthers?" by Roman philosopher VeritasSeekicus

I think I can now see why so many of the atheists here are getting upset: They're objecting to the apparent fallacy that the majority is right. I'm not arguing that Christians are right because they outnumber atheists, of course. But we must wonder!

I didn't claim anything of the sort, but it is interesting that you have neither understood nor replied to any of my previous posts in the same exact context as this one. You would rather imagine things like "upset," but sure, it's probably true that there are more religionists in the world than atheists and more Muslims than Catholics and more Buddhists than Faith Baptist and more agnostics than Faith Baptists. But that's not the point. The point is that you are ignoring the historical variables and trends. We can see that as societies become more free and more educated with less pressure for religion, atheism goes up. It's not that different from being taught the earth is flat by everyone in society and being thought of as a heretic and pressured or forced if thinking otherwise. Over time these things change. There were people and sometimes societies in the past that knew the earth was round but it's taken thousands of years to get to the point we are at now of knowledge the earth is round. Cultures giving up ideas to truth is a slow process.

 

[abaddon]

Old worldviews die hard.

This board often poses traditionalism/medievalism (Christianity) against modernism (which, in the context of this board, gets represented by atheists).

They're both aging and defunct. Why are both still adhered to? Because paradigm shifts don't happen overnight.

From animism to imperialism to traditionalism to modernism to postmodernism to the metamodernism that's emerging as a more holistic, more systems-science-based worldview, the progression is accretive. The later one builds on its predecessor, expands on it, keeps some of the knowledge (and some of the values) that were there, but includes more knowledge than was known before.

So there is no going back to a former worldview without being a willfully ignorant atavist.

What this means is, you can't be a traditional Christian without ignoring the new knowledge that has come out about nature, and our changing evaluation of nature. It's like trying to roll back time several centuries. So if anyone wonders "Christianity or Modernism?" (or "theism versus atheism?" as it's more usually, but mistakenly, presented) then 1) it's a false dilemma because these aren't the two only choices; and 2) they're both dumb choices because they're both done and over. Christianity is fully out of date, modernity should be too but it's in the early days of shifting to a new paradigm.

Paradigm shifts take time. Obviously there's a long while during which the older worldview remains over-represented. It's not because people are convinced by the apologetics. It's because they're not interested in leaving behind the tradition that's familiar to them.