Why do Christians outnumber atheists?

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So I was googling religiosity and came across this interesting study:

Testing a perceived uncommitted mating strategy account for atheist distrust and marriage disapproval - Current Psychology

Recent research suggests presumptions about atheists’ uncommitted mating strategy causes atheists to seem less trustworthy, and that people who are more religious or espouse less agreeable attitudes toward uncommitted mating (i.e., more restricted sociosexual attitudes) tend to harbor greater...

link.springer.com

It's kind of interesting because it's the type of thing that you can put into a broader life timeline of, say Americans, since the op author is fixated on US Christians versus atheists.

So, let's say a US Christian is taught from birth to reject critical thinking when it comes to religion. Doubt is bad. The Lord works in mysterious ways resolves all contradictions. Don't question. They like and date an atheist later in life. Parents and church tell them that's bad because of the atheism, but statistically there's also a distrust. What happens next? Likely it will snowball by people who don't think critically but look for confirmation bias. Christians by-and-large will end up with more Christians, even more than the statistics have you think. Maybe?

BUT, suppose that the atheist and Christian do end up in a marriage. The atheist is already facing distrust for no good reason. They're kind of desperate to gain trust...at least on average, you'd expect this. The Christian partner will want to get married and do so in a church and under the framework of their religion. The atheist may want to gain trust and acceptance by the family and institutions and concede a lot of ground. First, many churches would disallow the union, BUT they might allow it if the atheist had been baptized previously in a Church. So, their technical affiliation would be as Christian (statistically speaking since we're talking US) by-and-large. So, the atheist could concede they were baptized and the union might be approved by the church authority. The Church authority might also ask for another concession: that the children be raised in the specific faith of the Christian.

Catholic Christians are permitted to marry validly baptized non-Catholic Christians if they receive permission to do so from a "competent authority" who is usually the Catholic Christian party's local ordinary;[4][94][95] if the proper conditions are fulfilled, such a marriage entered into is seen as valid and also, since it is a marriage between baptized persons, it is a sacrament.[4]

Weddings in which both parties are Catholic Christians are ordinarily held in a Catholic church, while weddings in which one party is a Catholic Christian and the other party is a non-Catholic Christian can be held in a Catholic church or a non-Catholic Christian church.[96]

A condition for granting permission to marry a non-Catholic is that the Catholic Christian party undertake to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and to do all in his or her power so that all the children are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church; the other party is to be made aware of this undertaking and obligation of the Catholic Christian party.[94]

The atheist might also agree to that concession, thinking that it will likely just be a phase for the children, like believing in Santa Claus. BUT what may happen next?

The children again are taught and pressured to not think critically. An air of distrust remains around the atheist parent.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

If atheism is in favor of freedom, then am I free to opine that Christians outnumber atheists because people generally don't believe what you're saying?

Yes. Obviously.

IIDB doesn't have rules about ideology.

Try telling the CARM staff that you are not a Believer. You don't believe in any god, much less the Bible God. Don't namby pamby about concerning "truth seeker," tell them flat out what you've told us.

What I tell anybody is none of your business. But FYI, some of the Christians at CARM told me that they were mistreated here at IIDB because they expressed their beliefs here. I can easily believe them not only because I've been mistreated here, but I've seen bigoted comments about Christians here too.

I don't really care what happens, so I'm not asking. Just Do It
Tom

Now, knowing you and the other members here in this forum you'll continue to ignore or outright deny these facts. But the truth needs to be told. And the truth is that none of us need be surprised that atheism is and probably always will be on the fringe. Yes, Christians are arguably no better than atheists, but at least they have something to offer.

 

[bilby]

Christians are arguably no better than atheists, but at least they have something to offer.

No, they don't.

Nigerian 419 fraudsters are arguably no better than Christians, but at least they don't admit that you need to be dead before you can get their (nonexistent) offerings.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

But I suspect the folks over at CARM would be truly troubled to find you posting in the “Christians Only” forum when you’re not actually a christian. They have a , like, commandment about that. Or to find you being a christian who is lying over hear about your faith (There’s a whole gospel story about denying Jesus).

Speaking of the folks at CARM, there's a lot of them complaining about how they were treated here at IIDB. Why mistreat people who disagree with you?

 

[bilby]

But I suspect the folks over at CARM would be truly troubled to find you posting in the “Christians Only” forum when you’re not actually a christian. They have a , like, commandment about that. Or to find you being a christian who is lying over hear about your faith (There’s a whole gospel story about denying Jesus).

Speaking of the folks at CARM, there's a lot of them complaining about how they were treated here at IIDB. Why mistreat people who disagree with you?

Complaining isn't evidence; That someone complains doesn't necessarily imply that they were actually mistreated.
Further, there's no basis for your (or their) assumption that they were treated as they were because we disagreed with them; Correlation is not causation.

If I rock up at a church on Sunday, piss in the font, set a stack of bibles on fire, and tell everyone present that I disagree with their beliefs, I will likely be arrested.
Do you imagine, in this scenario, that the judge would take seriously my complaint that I was arrested for disagreeing with the congregation?

 

[laughing dog]

If atheism is in favor of freedom, then am I free to opine that Christians outnumber atheists because people generally don't believe what you're saying?

Yes. Obviously.

IIDB doesn't have rules about ideology.

Try telling the CARM staff that you are not a Believer. You don't believe in any god, much less the Bible God. Don't namby pamby about concerning "truth seeker," tell them flat out what you've told us.

What I tell anybody is none of your business. But FYI, some of the Christians at CARM told me that they were mistreated here at IIDB because they expressed their beliefs here. I can easily believe them not only because I've been mistreated here, but I've seen bigoted comments about Christians here too.

I don't really care what happens, so I'm not asking. Just Do It
Tom

Now, knowing you and the other members here in this forum you'll continue to ignore or outright deny these facts. But the truth needs to be told. And the truth is that none of us need be surprised that atheism is and probably always will be on the fringe. Yes, Christians are arguably no better than atheists, but at least they have something to offer.

Atheists have rationality to offer.

 

[laughing dog]

Speaking of the folks at CARM, there's a lot of them complaining about how they were treated here at IIDB. Why mistreat people who disagree with you?

I cannot speak to validity of their complaints but I find it fascinating you take their word on their experience and belief yet dismiss the word of atheists here when they say they do not believe in god.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Speaking of the folks at CARM, there's a lot of them complaining about how they were treated here at IIDB. Why mistreat people who disagree with you?

I cannot speak to validity of their complaints but I find it fascinating you take their word on their experience and belief yet dismiss the word of atheists here when they say they do not believe in god.

That shouldn't be hard to figure out at all.

The more I debate atheists the more I see they are like Christians. At one time not long after I realized I had been deceived by Christians I turned to atheists to see why. When some Christians learned I was reading atheistic materials criticizing the deceptions and abuses of their religion, they pounded me for daring to believe skeptics over what they said. Those "pounding Christians" of course disregarded what I had been put through by them.

So in the last twenty years or so I seem to be coming full circle. I'm learning that people form cults to nurture what they want to believe. Anybody raising painful doubts is not welcome in the cult and is to be driven out by mistreatment in the form of bullying. These cults are formed by both Christians and atheists.

 

[laughing dog]

Speaking of the folks at CARM, there's a lot of them complaining about how they were treated here at IIDB. Why mistreat people who disagree with you?

I cannot speak to validity of their complaints but I find it fascinating you take their word on their experience and belief yet dismiss the word of atheists here when they say they do not believe in god.

That shouldn't be hard to figure out at all.

The more I debate atheists the more I see they are like Christians. At one time not long after I realized I had been deceived by Christians I turned to atheists to see why. When some Christians learned I was reading atheistic materials criticizing the deceptions and abuses of their religion, they pounded me for daring to believe skeptics over what they said. Those "pounding Christians" of course disregarded what I had been put through by them.

So in the last twenty years or so I seem to be coming full circle. I'm learning that people form cults to nurture what they want to believe. Anybody raising painful doubts is not welcome in the cult and is to be driven out by mistreatment in the form of bullying. These cults are formed by both Christians and atheists.

Yet you believe Christians but not atheists when they tell you what they believe. Telling people they are essentially liars which is a form of mistreatment. So you are fine with mistreating people with whom you disagree.

 

[bilby]

Speaking of the folks at CARM, there's a lot of them complaining about how they were treated here at IIDB. Why mistreat people who disagree with you?

I cannot speak to validity of their complaints but I find it fascinating you take their word on their experience and belief yet dismiss the word of atheists here when they say they do not believe in god.

That shouldn't be hard to figure out at all.

The more I debate atheists the more I see they are like Christians. At one time not long after I realized I had been deceived by Christians I turned to atheists to see why. When some Christians learned I was reading atheistic materials criticizing the deceptions and abuses of their religion, they pounded me for daring to believe skeptics over what they said. Those "pounding Christians" of course disregarded what I had been put through by them.

So in the last twenty years or so I seem to be coming full circle. I'm learning that people form cults to nurture what they want to believe. Anybody raising painful doubts is not welcome in the cult and is to be driven out by mistreatment in the form of bullying. These cults are formed by both Christians and atheists.

You're right, of course.

The truth is best determined by how nice people are to you. It's all about you, and people who aren't nice are, therefore, wrong.

It's so obvious, now that you are here to spell it out for us. If only we had had your enormous ego to guide us before, we would never have made the mistake of trying to determine what is true by unemotional examination of reality.

 

[Emily Lake]

But I suspect the folks over at CARM would be truly troubled to find you posting in the “Christians Only” forum when you’re not actually a christian. They have a , like, commandment about that. Or to find you being a christian who is lying over hear about your faith (There’s a whole gospel story about denying Jesus).

Speaking of the folks at CARM, there's a lot of them complaining about how they were treated here at IIDB. Why mistreat people who disagree with you?

Have you asked them what they think consititutes "mistreatment"? There are a fair number of religionists who are deeply offended and feel as if they've been mistreated when we atheists don't bow to their belief systems. They seem to be particularly put out when we mock their complete and utter lack of argumentation.

Cases in point... you insisting that your life has been threatened in this thread, and also putting me on ignore.

 

[Emily Lake]

I can easily believe them not only because I've been mistreated here, but I've seen bigoted comments about Christians here too.

Mistreated as in... we saw through your charade and rightly identified you as a proselytizing religionist, and also told you that you're engaging dishonestly in this discussion when you were engaging dishonestly?

Bigoted as in... we don't believe what you believe, and your say so is insufficient to change our minds, and we don't feel particularly compelled to pussy-foot around you when we say your religion is a load of hogwash?

 

[Emily Lake]

That shouldn't be hard to figure out at all.

The more I debate atheists the more I see they are like Christians. At one time not long after I realized I had been deceived by Christians I turned to atheists to see why. When some Christians learned I was reading atheistic materials criticizing the deceptions and abuses of their religion, they pounded me for daring to believe skeptics over what they said. Those "pounding Christians" of course disregarded what I had been put through by them.

So in the last twenty years or so I seem to be coming full circle. I'm learning that people form cults to nurture what they want to believe. Anybody raising painful doubts is not welcome in the cult and is to be driven out by mistreatment in the form of bullying. These cults are formed by both Christians and atheists.

Seriously, buddy... have you read any of the threads in other parts of this forum? We're about as far from cultlike as you can get. There's virtually nothing that we all agree on, and on almost any topic we will passionately disagree with each other in a borderline hostile fashion. We don't have any shared dogma, we don't hold the same views.

The only thing we have in common is that we lack a belief in deities... and even that's not universal, as we have a gipple of religionists here who've been around for a good long while.

 

[SIB]

I think most atheist believe in something more. It just isn't a deity.

 

[bilby]

I think most atheist believe in something more. It just isn't a deity.

Not only do I not "believe in something more", I am not convinced that the suggestion that I do is even coherent.

Something more than what?

I mean, I recognise that there are some things that are unknown, such as how to reconcile Relativity with Quantum Mechanics; But that's not really a belief, so much as it is an unavoidable conclusion. Perhaps one day we will know more about this.

But whenever this vague notion - that there's "something more" is raised, it doesn't appear to be a claim that people have incomplete knowledge about reality, so much as an attempt to refute, through obscurity and vagueness, the fact of monism.

There is not, and cannot be, any unknown external influence on human lives. We don't fully understand the sociological and biological implications of those influences that are known; But the physics of human scale interactions is complete, and there's no possibility of a "something else", without that physics being so wildly mistaken as to be bleeding bloody obvious.

Either there's "nothing else", in the sense that dualism is not only false, but demonstrably false; Or the best tested physical theories of all time are false in ways that would stand out like a dog's balls in our experimental results.

If you're not referring to the debunked ideas of dualism by your vague reference to "something else", then what are you hinting at? Phlogiston? Animism? Square circles??

 

[ideologyhunter]

Not only do I not "believe in something more", I am not convinced that the suggestion that I do is even coherent.

Something more than what?

Yep. My atheism assumes that life and the universe have no intrinsic meaning -- but life can have any kind of extrinsic meaning you assign to it. You can find/add meaning by adopting a cause, or pursuing an art, or befriending someone. Which makes atheism potentially more interesting and full of variety than any orthodoxy. Religionists have added their own extrinsic meaning; they just don't know it and don't assess it that way.

 

[Rhea]

I think most atheist believe in something more. It just isn't a deity.

I’m curious what you mean by this?

I agree in the sense that that “something more” could be the greater-than-the-sum-of-the-parts things that arise out of relationships, or the appreciation of art, or the sense of wonder when contemplating the output of the Webb telescope. But that’s not really a “belief” in the religious sense (knowledge without any evidence) because its evidence is that it creates chemicals in the brain that feel good.


So do you mean that? That “believe” among atheists is different that that among Christians? In that case, I think the disconnect is that many of us avoid the word because of the way religionists use it, and we don’t want to muddy the discussion with “I believe I’ll have another drink” usages.

But if you mean something else - what do you mean?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I generally don't respond to apparently mentally deranged posters who threaten to kill me.

Umm... This is some ridiculously exaggerated bullshittery.

1) Threatening other members of the forum is 100% against the rules. If you believe you've been threatened, report the post.
2) Calling other posters crazy, and euphemistic variations thereof, is also against the rules. Thus I have reported your post.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[Shadowy Man]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

honestly, not all of them are.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]